Discussion of Romans 3:27-28

[Still_Small_Voice]

I do believe Romans chapter 3 verses 27 through 28 is either talking about the law of Moses or it is an error in the book of Romans.

Romans 3:27-28

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Inspired Version of Romans 4:16 reads:

"Therefore ye are justified of faith and works, through grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to them only who are of the law, but to them also who are of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"

Inspired Version of Romans 3:8 reads:

"And some affirm that we say, (whose damnation is just,) Let us do evil that good may come. But this is false."

James 2 Reads:

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

I know the LORD has done 99.9 percent of the work for us through His grace and continually pays us by His blessings to us when we obey Him and sometimes even when we don't obey Him. But we through faith don't seek to justify ourselves through works alone, but we seek to imitate Jesus through our works because true faith requires this.

I want to know if there are any other thoughts on Romans chapter 3 verses 27 through 28?

[Just_A_Guy]

Look at Benjamin's sermon in the Book of Mosiah. Anything we do, we do because the Lord enables us to do it. So even our works are borne of a free gift from God. The only thing we have to offer the Lord, as Elder Maxwell taught, is our own will.

[skippy740]

We will always be unprofitable servants.

Think of it this way: We cannot EVER do enough for the Lord to "owe us". He will never be in our debt. Our blessings from the Lord are infinite compared to our actions.

However, we show our faith by our actions and deeds. We cannot save ourselves, but we can be a true example of our faith and convictions by our actions, words, deeds, and thoughts.

[prisonchaplain]

If I say that salvation is 100% faith (grace), and that good works are the obvious and necessary product of such salvation, would we be in agreement?

[skippy740]

I would say 'yes', we would be in agreement.

Faith is where it all begins. Faith unto repentance, baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc.

Without faith, the rest is meaningless.

Without exercising faith unto good works - for yourself and others - faith will dwindle and die.

2 Nephi 25:23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

James 2:18

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

[james12]

Those who seek for the law get the law. It is "do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule, a little here, a little there" (Isa 28:10). This is not a good thing, because no one becomes righteous by fulfilling the law!

The whole purpose of the law is to make us aware of sin (see Romans 3:20). Having been made aware of our sinful nature and the fact that by our acts we cannot obey the law what do we do? Work harder? Of course not. We humble ourselves and turn to God. We work by faith instead of by physical effort. We plead to him for deliverance for enabling power. And he delivers us. He purifies our nature, he blesses us with the Spirit. "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law" (Gal 5:18). Once we can follow the Spirit we are no more bound by law because it's purpose has been fulfilled. When we follow the Spirit we have fulfilled the entire purpose of the law! The law is dead to us and we are made alive in Christ.

[Still_Small_Voice]

I understand what everyone else is speaking about. But how do we reconcile the exact wording of Romans 3:27-28?

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

If we are following the Holy Spirit we will be doing good works and following the commandments. We will not have hatred toward our fellow men, we will not be lusting after our neighbor and we will be honest and living Godly lives. If we trangress we will be repenting and looking toward God with joy. We are justified of faith and works, through grace of Christ.

The wording would be correct if it said: "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith and works through Christ and not of our own works."

[Still_Small_Voice]

I understand what everyone else is speaking about. But how do we reconcile the exact wording of Romans 3:27-28?

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

If we are following the Holy Spirit we will be doing good works and following the commandments. We will not have hatred toward our fellow men, we will not be lusting after our neighbor and we will be honest and living Godly lives. If we transgress we will be repenting and looking toward God with joy. We are justified of faith and works, through the grace of Christ.

The scripture would be correct if it read:

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith and works through Christ and not of our own works following the law."

[prisonchaplain]

I understand what everyone else is speaking about. But how do we reconcile the exact wording of Romans 3:27-28?

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

If we are following the Holy Spirit we will be doing good works and following the commandments. We will not have hatred toward our fellow men, we will not be lusting after our neighbor and we will be honest and living Godly lives. If we transgress we will be repenting and looking toward God with joy. We are justified of faith and works, through the grace of Christ.

The scripture would be correct if it read:

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith and works through Christ and not of our own works following the law."

This may be one of those "We're so close but so far" scenarios. From an evangelical (and I believe Lutheran) perspective: The scripture is correct as it is. Works cannot justify us even a fraction of a percent. What they can do is testify to our faith--and to our justification. Abraham was already justified by his faith--but God correctly points out that we would not see his faith until we had seen his works. Works are the product of faith and of justification. They are incredibly reassuring to us. BUT, they are not a prerequisite to our salvation.

Edited November 12, 2013 by prisonchaplain

[Still_Small_Voice]

From the Latter-Day Saint perspective we believe we do have a small part to do with our salvation through our own efforts as small as they are (we do the thousandth part and the LORD does the 99.9 percent). But also it reads in the Book of Mormon:

"And behold, all that he  requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has  promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land . . . therefore if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you . . . and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever . . ." (Mosiah 2:22-24)

I think the person who read Romans 3:27-28 excluded verse 31 which finishes the Apostle Paul's thoughts. We have to keep in mind that verses are many times not complete thoughts and were not original scripture. They were added later so people could reference the word of God.

Verse 31 of Romans chapter 3 reads: "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

[Irishcolleen]

Some people wonder if Evangelical Christians can sin all they want because they don't believe their works save them. We strive to maintain good works out of gratitude and love of Christ. We also maintain good works to show others the love of Christ.

[Guest]

Some people wonder if Evangelical Christians can sin all they want because they don't believe their works save them. We strive to maintain good works out of gratitude and love of Christ. We also maintain good works to show others the love of Christ.

Of course they don't subscribe to this absurd idea. I don't even understand why people insist that just because for Evengelicals, works can't save somebody, that Evangelicals are somehow okay to sin! Because of our Faith, it compells us to avoid sin! Not because it can save us, but because we have Faith that it is God's way.

[Traveler]

To be honest - I do not understand why there is a problem in understanding that there is the law of G-d and that there is faith in G-d.

In the first - that G-d's word is his law - why would anyone (Evangelical Catholic, LDS or what ever) dispute that G-d does not provide law and that his word is commandment to his saints. By his Law - G-d provides the path that man ought to follow to salvation. To believe in G-d is to believe his word and commandments. Thus of necessity the next consideration is faith.

It is by faith in G-d that we seek his law and it is by faith that we learn his commandments. Therefore, it is only because of our faith and belief in G-d that we even know his word - and therefore it is by faith in G-d and by his grace that we have a path to follow unto salvation.

Just as sure and true as there is ONE G-D (purpose of G-d) there is only one faith, one law, one path and one true church. Therefore it is only by faith in G-d that we can believe or hope that there is law unto salvation. And that it is only by faith in G-d that we walk in the path and law of G-d unto salvation. It is because of lack of faith in G-d and the law of G-d that some determine to walk a different path or live by a different law. So only by faith in the true and living G-d can one walk the true and living path - living the true and living law of salvation.

The Traveler

[james12]

Well we could get lost in semantics talking about faith vs works. But one of the major takeaways for me in the New Testament is about how to progress.

Imagine that day when we appear before Christ to be judged. We will see him in all his glory and power. And no matter how hard we have worked we will see, to our utter shame, that we are nothing. All our effort, all our righteousness will amount to practically zero in comparison to his love and his goodness.

In such a case will we try and tell him about all our good works? Will our pitiful works justify us in the least? Absolutely not. Our only hope will be his mercy. And it will be too late to beg for his mercy when we stand in his presence.

Why then does James say that we are justified by works? Because our works prove our faith. Our works show us as Christians. When we have humbled ourselves before God and sought to do his will, we will be changed by him. Our works will be the outward symbol.

Edit: After posting this I see Prisonchaplain has said the same thing but perhaps more succinctly. Well you know what they say about great minds...

Edited November 12, 2013 by james12

[Seminarysnoozer]

I understand what everyone else is speaking about. But how do we reconcile the exact wording of Romans 3:27-28?

"Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

If we are following the Holy Spirit we will be doing good works and following the commandments. We will not have hatred toward our fellow men, we will not be lusting after our neighbor and we will be honest and living Godly lives. If we transgress we will be repenting and looking toward God with joy. We are justified of faith and works, through the grace of Christ.

The scripture would be correct if it read:

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith and works through Christ and not of our own works following the law."

As has already been said, that scripture is referring to people that either don't have the law (like the gentiles) or those that have a dead law (like the law of Moses). That is what "without the law" means. That verse is not applicable to those that have the law. So, if they don't have the law, how will God judge them? Of course, He is not going to judge them by the law of works but by the law of faith. We all have the light of Christ upon coming here, no matter what the circumstances, we can then be judged by the law of faith. But if one is not obedient to the law of faith it doesn't matter if they follow the works. Being circumcised physically, in other words, means nothing if one isn't circumcised of heart. A good modern example of how this scripture applies is with infant baptism. Is an infant that is baptized more likely to be saved than another who is not baptized as an infant? Under what law? Infant baptism is not something to boast about.

D&C 22; "1 Behold, I say unto you that all old covenants have I caused to be done away in this thing; and this is a new and an everlasting ccovenant, even that which was from the beginning.

2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.

3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old."

Moroni 8:22 “ 22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing—

23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.”