What's up Doc?

[Traveler]

Sometimes I think we are living in the best of times and sometimes I wonder if we are seeing the worst of times (aka - Dickens).

Do you think you have insights? Considering all things (religious, political, scientific and social) - what do you think will happen and emerge over the next 5 to 10 years. Will mankind follow a path of self destruction or become more enlightened. Will we become more peaceful with one another or pursue paths of bitterness towards war and violence. Will morals decline as society becomes selfish or will there be a rebound in compassion and kindness towards others.

What do you see in trends politically, socially and religiously? Do you think you have any handle on what is coming? Will the LDS church grow - will LDS become more or less accepted in the general religious community? What about other theological ideas - will there be new contributions or the same old thing? Is it possible that we are within 10 years of the second coming? What do you think will happen over the next 5 to 10 years?

The Traveler

[Bini]

Personally I don't feel that we're within 10 years of the second coming but maybe we are. Who knows? There was an episode on Modern Marvels some time ago that toured fallout vaults around the world. The idea is that these will keep people safe after nuclear fallout for X amount of years underground. Some were extremely intricate and much more than just an underground cylinder with a few beds in it. So people are definitely thinking about it.. the end.. and preparation. That said, I think everyone's idea of "the end" is different, based on your religious beliefs for example.

[Dravin]

Religious trends: I think you'll see an increasing trend towards secularization in western societies, and more of "many paths to God" mentality, it'll create a less devout but in some ways more religiously tolerant society. If belief in God is unimportant that removes a lot of the passion between religious tolerance. Remaining religious intolerance will be more general and less creed based coming from people looking down at those with a 'primitive' belief in God.

Scientific Trends: Eh, I don't have a broad enough view to try and predict the flow of technology (which isn't the same thing as science but tends to be what people mean with that sort of question). I think the issue, meaning the debate, of climate change will come to a head.

Social Trends: This kinda ties in with religion, I think we'll see an increasing trend towards, "It's all good as long as you aren't hurting someone or everyone consents." On the flip side I think you'll see increasing intolerance towards those who don't subscribe to such an idea, because such beliefs will be seen as falling into the hurting someone else category. This will kinda push back against the trend of increasing religious tolerance.

Politically: I see a decline in American power, economically and as a result also militarily. Not a collapse mind you, we're only talking a decade, but that's the trend I see.

This is of course rather inexact and unscientific, it's all just coming from general trends I perceive.

[NeuroTypical]

I don't see any melodramatic cumulation to anything, just more change and new chapters. Change is constant.

For example - same sex marriage. "They" are winning, and "We" are losing. One thing we predicted years ago, was that "they" wanted more than just the right to get married. They also wanted to remake society and force people to change. We opined about a future situation where a wedding cake maker would be forced to make cakes for gay weddings, and they assured us such things would never happen.

Well, the oppressed have become the oppressors:

Judge orders Colorado cake-maker to serve gay couples

DENVER - A baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex ceremony must serve gay couples despite his religious beliefs or face fines, a judge said Friday.

It's not the end-times apocalypse. It's just the pendulum of history swinging like it always has.

[Bini]

I don't see any melodramatic cumulation to anything, just more change and new chapters. Change is constant.

For example - same sex marriage. "They" are winning, and "We" are losing. One thing we predicted years ago, was that "they" wanted more than just the right to get married. They also wanted to remake society and force people to change. We opined about a future situation where a wedding cake maker would be forced to make cakes for gay weddings, and they assured us such things would never happen.

Well, the oppressed have become the oppressors:

Judge orders Colorado cake-maker to serve gay couples

It's not the end-times apocalypse. It's just the pendulum of history swinging like it always has.

I really find these situations interesting.

For those that have sympathy in the above scenario, do you feel the same way about medical professionals? Should a nurse or doctor only serve and treat those that live worthily in their eyes?

[Bini]

Thought of another one.

Socially, I think with newer generations, old ways and traditions are fading away. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it just means change, but for an elder in the family it could very well be perceived as the downfall of the newer generations.. living unconventionally, and not in the footsteps of their ancestors.

[Dravin]

I really find these situations interesting.

For those that have sympathy in the above scenario, do you feel the same way about medical professionals? Should a nurse or doctor only serve and treat those that live worthily in their eyes?

It's not about them living unworthily but about being asked to participate in something one sees as immoral. So a medical parallel is less, "You're gay? I won't set that broken arm for you." and more "No, I won't participate in an abortion. I believe it is immoral."

One can of course debate the latter point, if a medical professional should be allowed to do such, with vigor if they are so inclined, but while some might be inclined to not see a distinction I see one. One is refusing to serve them simply because they are living a lifestyle they disagree with, and the other is refusing to participate in something one believes is immoral. I'm not sure how much of a difference that does, or even should, make legally speaking but they are different positions. If the baker normally makes Birthday cakes and refused to make one for them because they were gay, then we'd be in, "I won't serve you because you are living unworthily." territory.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Dravin

[Anddenex]

Do you think you have insights?

Of course I have personal insights :)

Considering all things (religious, political, scientific and social) - what do you think will happen and emerge over the next 5 to 10 years. Will mankind follow a path of self destruction or become more enlightened.

Both, more people will follow a path of destruction than there will be people who are following a path of enlightenment. Enlightenment being intelligence. We will see more follow the path of intelligence, but those that don't will be greater -- nothing new here. Yet, I believe, we will be beginning to see a people who are more ready, by action, to fulfill the prophecy of restoring Zion.

Will we become more peaceful with one another or pursue paths of bitterness towards war and violence. Will morals decline as society becomes selfish or will there be a rebound in compassion and kindness towards others.

Morals are already declining because we our children are being taught in schools that there are no absolute morals, and whatever you choose (as long as you are ok with it -- or if your genetic makeup is different) is ok and no one can judge you -- and if they do judge you they are bigots. From an intelligence perspective, morals will decline and morals will also increase among religious groups and even some non-religious people.

What do you see in trends politically, socially and religiously? Do you think you have any handle on what is coming? Will the LDS church grow - will LDS become more or less accepted in the general religious community? What about other theological ideas - will there be new contributions or the same old thing? Is it possible that we are within 10 years of the second coming? What do you think will happen over the next 5 to 10 years?

Don't know on the first question, but I assume others are right, it is only a matter of time that same sex marriage is legalized in most states, maybe even Federally. The Church will grow stronger in some areas and weaker in others -- nothing new. We will continue to grow, but we may see leaps in growth I believe in the next 10 years.

I don't believe we will see any new doctrinal truths until Zion is officially established once again, as Joseph Smith tried in Ohio. As members we need to live what we already know before we receive more.

[NeuroTypical]

For those that have sympathy in the above scenario, do you feel the same way about medical professionals? Should a nurse or doctor only serve and treat those that live worthily in their eyes?

There is a good place for antidiscrimination laws. Medical care, utilities, access to housing, government employment - nobody should be able to cut off someone's electricity because they're [black/gay/mormon/wife-beater/stupid/etc].

However, freedom to conduct your affairs as you see fit, as long as it does not impinge on your neighbor, is a core issue. This cake maker (note - baker. Not road maintenance guy, not public park administrator, not banker) wants to worship his God through his artistic creations. There are no shortage of businesses willing to sell cakes to gay couples. By targeting this specific baker, the "love & tolerate" crowd is on the verge of becoming the "love & tolerate & use government force to put differently-minded people out of business" crowd.

It's wrong. It's also something that is pretty much always done by whoever is in charge.

[Finrock]

Good Afternoon Anddenex. I hope you're doing well today! :)

Both, more people will follow a path of destruction than there will be people who are following a path of enlightenment. Enlightenment being intelligence. We will see more follow the path of intelligence, but those that don't will be greater -- nothing new here. Yet, I believe, we will be beginning to see a people who are more ready, by action, to fulfill the prophecy of restoring Zion.

What you describe, more or less, are my feelings and beliefs as well. I feel that there is an increase in wickedness in the world but at the same time there must be "an opposition in all things" so there is also an increase in righteousness. I like to say there is a tidal wave of righteousness that will or has begun to sweep across the earth.

I believe we are "beginning to see a people who are more ready, by action, to fulfill the prophecy of restoring Zion".

So, yes, wickedness will increase but God will not let Satan rule unchallenged and so there will also be an increase in the manifestations of God's power because of the few humble followers of Christ.

-Finrock

[Praetorian_Brow]

I find it ridiculous that gay marriage has been associated with end of the world scenarios. I don't really believe any religious or moral grounds will precede apocalyptic scenarios as the domino affect tends to start with war, which in almost all cases is usually just robbery on a large scale. I suppose that is a type of ethical dilemma, but in this case, I think practical reasons would supersede any religious or moral justification, even if the justification is used as fuel for the fire.

Economic collapse, then war because someone will refuse to pay, countries devastated, billions dead, sanitation and medicine collapse, leading to plagues, defaulting the worlds population back to less than a billion which was the norm before the industrial revolution. Those who depend on electricity to live, will probably die the quickest.

The usual calamity stuff, not much different from all the previous calamities, just that the next one will be global and the scale unprecedented. When will it happen is anyone's guess, but hey, I survived Y2K, so I can survive the next one, right?

[Lakumi]

I hope I survive those end times and become really strong, if it gets all Fist of the North Star I might as well try and enjoy it.

All one hears about religion is what divides, who they hate and what they don't want you to do.

Religions get a really bad reputation, a lot of which is undeserving.

It can and does a lot of good for people, but one must be careful because it can be a tool of man as well, and God is not man's tool.

[Quin]

Thought of another one.

Socially, I think with newer generations, old ways and traditions are fading away. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it just means change, but for an elder in the family it could very well be perceived as the downfall of the newer generations.. living unconventionally, and not in the footsteps of their ancestors.

Not just newer generations... I couldn't have phone/email for a few months, and my kids school acted like it was the apocalypse! Seriously. Send. Me. (Real) Mail. Or (gasp) talk to me in person when Im picking up & dropping off. Heck. Pin a note to my kid's shirt! While I love living in SciFi as much as the next person (says Internet forum posting chick), I KNOW that just 10 years ago you weren't texting and emailing all the info to parents. It won't kill you to still reach me without the Internet. I promise.

Q

[Bini]

Not just newer generations... I couldn't have phone/email for a few months, and my kids school acted like it was the apocalypse! Seriously. Send. Me. (Real) Mail. Or (gasp) talk to me in person when Im picking up & dropping off. Heck. Pin a note to my kid's shirt! While I love living in SciFi as much as the next person (says Internet forum posting chick), I KNOW that just 10 years ago you weren't texting and emailing all the info to parents. It won't kill you to still reach me without the Internet. I promise.

Q

I'm referring to within each generation there is always scrutiny when changes occur that go against tradition or commonplace from the older generation.

My best friend who is Navajo has broken a lot of barriers by herself. Her family was one of the first to leave the res and to never return to the res, except for special events, or a death. But her parents wanted more opportunities for their children and raised them away from the reservation. It caused a big extended family feud and for multiple reasons: (1) the kids speak little Navajo and (2) several of them have sought out relationships with non-Native American partners - my friend actually married a Caucasian from Iowa, who she met in the Marine Corps back in 2003. The Marines was another can of worms for some of the elders back on the res. Her clan has superstitions about traveling overseas, literally, flying over the ocean. I remember attending a special ceremony for her prior to her being stationed in Japan. That was a big deal too. I guess a lot of that is understandable to a certain extent because it's all rooted in traditional culture but what surprised me was how she was shunned by extended family when she went to college. Apparently, instead of receiving warm vibes for her continued education, people felt that she thought she was better than everyone else because she was now college educated. Note, she is the first in her family to attend college and is in school for bio-chemistry. She is a smart cookie and the only people that are proud of her are her parents and siblings out of a tribe.

Anyway, long story short.. She had told me that it's becoming more common for younger kids wanting to leave the res and live outside the res. She said times are changing and there's a lot of opportunity out there for those in her tribe that want to seek it.

[Traveler]

Many years ago I started a thought journal. I would record my thought and often make predictions. I have found that for the most part my predictions have been wrong - though I have been able to foresee a few things. For the record, I do not have the ability to predict very well. With that said here is what I am thinking - about what I have observed during my lifetime and what I think I see coming.

Right after college I went to work in the defense department. What I experienced there I honestly believe that war against Russia and China was inevitable. I thought that there would be a nuclear exchange or accident at some point - I thought that the nuclear option would be limited (the US was far superior with delivery systems) and that we would triumph leaving Russia and China open to missionaries - and then the end of times would be all but close. I never saw that the fall of communism to be so quick and that missionaries would be in eastern European countries so quickly. We also gained an advantage with magnetic variation detection and infrared detection technologies that the gave us such a military advantage (which was leaked to Russia) that within 5 years cause an economic collapse which I did not see.

I thought that government welfare would be such a failure and cost so much that there would be a tax payer revolt. I assumed the magic number was a 10 fold increase in initial expenses (noting that initial expenses were already in excess of what research from the left was sure was all that was necessary) - here I was wrong again - we have now exceeded a 20 fold increase in 60 years, poverty is worse now and very few seem to care very much.

I did not see that homosexuality would become so popular. Not to homosexuals but the society in general. I also did not see that the core family would become so unpopular. I thought good sense would be deemed more valuable and that there would be a return to family values. Since we have so surpassed what I thought good sense would allow - I see this trend accelerating and believe that family values will soon become a social taboo.

I did not see terrorism becoming a threat. I am glad that for the most part terrorists are stupid and that their efforts have been minor and relatively easy to counter. But I think they are and will get smarter and that instead of a few deaths here and there - we will see thousands - perhaps even into the millions. But until this occurs, I do not think we will take this threat seriously and not be political about it. What I did not foresee is that our international relations would be so weak that once this balance is tipped - I think that we will not find relief prior to the 2nd coming.

I though that the threat to our government was a secret combinations taking over the banking industry and using an economic downturn to gain control of the government - similar to what happened during the great depression. I believe that the same drug cartel that destroyed China just over a century ago would take control of our government by controlling both political parties. I thought that drug money would buy our politicians and that we would in essence sell off our liberties. I thought that contrived rotating shortages would be generated to deplete the wealth of the middle class. Wrong again.

I seriously think it is possible that we could be within 8 years of the end. But it all depends on what happens over the next 3 to 5 years. I believe that during this time we will see the Church call and plead for more missionaries and missionary funds. If the Church starts closing missions and bring missionaries home - I am going to really repent fast and hard. Also if there is a major or series of catastrophic events causing countries to flee coastal areas and mass overrunning of our borders - We could be as close as 3 years from the end.

I am beginning to think things are happening a lot faster than I thought they would and that it is all much closer (therefore a surprise to many) according to prophesy. But then - I have been very good at being wrong. I am just concerned that I was wrong thinking for so long that the end is all still many years away - and that I was wrong to not be concerned.

just my thoughts.

The Traveler

[Torostoros]

I am beginning to think things are happening a lot faster than I thought they would and that it is all much closer (therefore a surprise to many) according to prophesy. But then - I have been very good at being wrong. I am just concerned that I was wrong thinking for so long that the end is all still many years away - and that I was wrong to not be concerned.

just my thoughts.

The Traveler

Even if you are wrong on this point, if it stirs yourself, others, us, etc., up to repentance anyway, that's a good thing, right? :)

No such thing as a bad time to be reminded of the need to repent :)