Attending ward outside of assigned stake?

[dekalei]

My family and I are moving into our new home at the end of this month, and unfortunately have found that we JUST make the boundary for the ward in which some of my family members live. These family members are toxic and abusive and I have only recently cut them out of our lives for mine and my daughter's safety.

I thought it was alright, we could attend the ward on the other side of the line, and hopefully get permission to have our records moved there. However, this ward meets in the same building as our assigned ward and I am very worried about bumping into these people because they have no shame in confronting me in public and making a scene.

The only other option now (until we can move) is to attend a ward outside of our Stake. So far, I have only seen some discussion on these forums about attending different wards. How do I go about with changing Stakes? Would we need to contact the Stake President of each Stake involved, or just deal directly with the Bishop of the ward we plan to attend?

[Woodendance]

Just talk with the bishop first. My ward has many members that are actually outside our stake and our bishop has given them permission. One is even an elder's quorum president and the stake president knows about him not being in our boundaries.

[dekalei]

Oh right, that's easy then. Being a Stake change, I had assumed the Stake Presidents of both might need to be involved. Thank you.

[Anddenex]

Dekalei,

This is actually the stewardship of a stake president. Permission to attend, or to have your records moved to a ward outside of your ward, or stake, is determined by stake presidents. Bishops cannot authorize this, they need approval from the stake president who holds the keys in this matter.

However, if you are not concerned about moving your records into a ward that is not your own, then it really doesn't matter and you don't need permission from anyone....you simply choose to attend another ward.

[dekalei]

Thanks Anddenex,

My husband and I very much want to be a part of the Ward, have callings and be able to renew our temple recommends without hassle and so will involve the Stake Presidents just to cover our bases.

[ACommonMan]

Having gone through this process myself, for another ward in the same stake, I can tell you that the process involved me writing a letter of explanation to the First Presidency and giving it to my Stake President. He sent to Salt Lake and received permission to move the records. We also spoke with the bishop of the ward we selected to ensure that he didn't feel like he was being saddled with a problem he wasn't prepared to handle. I presume that changing stake boundaries would be fundamentally the same. I presume you would speak with the new Stake President as well as the new bishop.

[Quin]

You may also consider taking out some kind of restraining order (there are many many many different types... When I divorced my ex "the" restraining order was actually a stapled packet of all 11 applicable restraining & no contact orders that directly applied to my situation, plus 9 each for each of my kids, and 1 each for each pet -because animal cruelty isn't even a misdemeanor, unless theirs a broken court order, which kicks up the level of seriousness... So if he poisoned the dog, or killed the cat to hurt us... It would go through family court) against those individuals ...

That there were sooooo many different types & severity levels of restraining orders was completely mind blowing to me.

Oh. So I could have gotten one -no big deal- when my old coworker was harassing me?

Sheesh.

Live and learn!

Just as good practice if they are continuing to harass you &/or your family.

Also, if you run into any problems changing stakes, the order gives sufficient cause if they need to justify it.

Q

Edited December 24, 2013 by Quin

[Wingnut]

A lot of people just decide to attend elsewhere without going through proper channels. When that happens, a few things result:

(1) You can only be assigned home and visiting teachers (or be given assignments yourself) in your home ward.

(2) You can only pay tithing in your home ward (or through direct deposit).

(3) You can only obtain a temple recommend from your home bishopric and stake presidency.

(4) You can only be extended a calling in your home ward or stake.

If any of those things are important to you, they can be moved to a new unit, but only when you work through proper channels.

Additionally, problems you don't anticipate arise as well. For example, I know someone who is currently serving as branch president in a unit over about 35-40 active members. He doesn't reside in that unit, but has been called (along with his family) by the stake presidency on a "mission" to serve and attend there, in an effort to help build up the unit. I recently heard him expressing frustration because he's supposed to be building up leaders and growing the ward. He can't, though, because (1) several members living within its boundaries attend other units, and (2) several members who attend his unit actually reside in other ones.

Moral of the story: where you attend church affects more than just you and your family. Please talk with your leaders. Explain the circumstances and why such a change is important (or even imperative) for you. Make appropriate arrangements. Don't just go it on your own.

[dekalei]

Thank you all for your responses. My husband and I felt prompted to remain in our assigned Stake and so approached both the bishops of our assigned ward and of the ward we intend to attend.

I was quite disappointed when part-way through my explanation to the Bishop of my assigned ward, he interrupted me with "Well, you should at least give our Ward a try before you make your decision. We have a calling we would like to extend to you."

As for the Bishop of the Ward we intend to attend, he was a little more understanding but explained that plenty of people have bad family relationships and through humbling themselves and relying on Heavenly Father, are able to get over their issues and lead happy lives. He has absolutely no issues with us attending the Ward, but then there is the issue of our not being able to serve in any callings or sit a temple recommend interview with him.

After all this, I feel down. I may just write a letter to the First Presidency and see how things go from there. I am not keen to take out a restraining order against these people as they still have contact with other family I care about and will only just take it out on them. I am trying to go about this without ruffling too many feathers and making things even worse.

[Wingnut]

After all this, I feel down. I may just write a letter to the First Presidency and see how things go from there.

I refer you to CHI 21.1.24:

Members’ Communication with Church Headquarters

Members of the Church are discouraged from making telephone calls or writing letters to General Authorities about doctrinal issues or personal matters. With an ever-increasing Church membership, responding personally to these inquiries presents an almost insurmountable task and would make it difficult for General Authorities to fulfill the duties for which they alone are responsible. The General Authorities love the members of the Church and do not want them to feel that they are without the support and guidance they need. However, all things need to be done with wisdom and order.

The Lord has organized His Church so every member has access to a bishop or branch president and a stake, district, or mission president who serve as spiritual advisers and temporal counselors. By reason of their callings, these local leaders are entitled to the spirit of discernment and inspiration to enable them to counsel members within their jurisdiction.

Members who need spiritual guidance, have weighty personal problems, or have doctrinal questions should make a diligent effort, including earnest prayer and scripture study, to find solutions and answers themselves. Church members are encouraged to seek guidance from the Holy Ghost to help them in their personal lives and in their family and Church responsibilities.

If members still need help, they should counsel first with their bishop. If necessary, he may refer them to the stake president.

In most cases, correspondence from members to General Authorities will be referred back to their local leaders. Stake presidents who need clarification about doctrinal or other Church matters may write in behalf of their members to the First Presidency.

[ACommonMan]

Letters sent to the First Presidency are immediately routed back to your Stake President. Whatever you want said might as well be said directly to the Stake President. The First Presidency will never see it.

[mrmarklin]

All the above being said, I would go to the ward you are most comfortable with.

[MarginOfError]

Lots of good information here, but a few points to clean up for those who are interested.

Stake presidents do not have the authority to authorize records being moved out of their assigned ward. By the books, they are required to get approval from the First Presidency. If they feel a situation warrants moving records, they may send a request to the First Presidency to be reviewed. (I'm not aware of how many requests are received, approved, or denied).

That being said, the mechanism for moving records resides in the local units. A clerk with access to MLS and with the appropriate unit numbers could easily pull records from another unit. There are no checks in the system to ask about approval having been received. So there are no technical challenges to moving the records; only the bureaucratic challenges.

==

Not all correspondence sent to the First Presidency is returned. Members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve receive personal correspondence from members quite often (and occasionally you hear them read some of these during General Conference). But questions of doctrine and policy are typically returned to the stake president. If you were to write directly to the First Presidency about your situation, it would be sent to the stake president*.

But personal correspondence may get through. I wrote a letter about my feelings on the proposed changes to the Boy Scout membership policy last February. I knew this wasn't something my stake president could do anything about, so I mentioned to one of his counselors that I wasn't sure he was the right person to send my letter to in hopes of it going to Salt Lake. I was told to send it directly to Salt Lake because the subject at hand was out of the stake president's stewardship.

* On a theoretical note, if you had a stake president who refused to take the case to the First Presidency no matter what the circumstances, writing your area authority or the First Presidency might be useful. For example, let's pretend that someone has taken out a restraining order against you. You decide that to remain complicit with the restraining order you need to attend another ward. When you ask your stake president, he refuses to write the First Presidency because, "you two just need to work it out," that might be a good time to write the First Presidency and explain the situation. When the letter is screened, if they see something like that, it's more likely to make the First Presidency's desk. If they decide they need to address this, they will contact the stake president directly.

[RMGuy]

This is one of the only churches that I am aware of that tells you which building and services time you have to attend. I understand policy, but I have a difficult time reconciling that somehow or other Jesus is going to be displeased because you attended the wrong ward. My opinion, and that is all it is, is to do what you need to do to bring your family closer to Christ.

-RM

[The Folk Prophet]

This is one of the only churches that I am aware of that tells you which building and services time you have to attend. I understand policy, but I have a difficult time reconciling that somehow or other Jesus is going to be displeased because you attended the wrong ward. My opinion, and that is all it is, is to do what you need to do to bring your family closer to Christ.

-RM

Hmm. I find this problematic. I mean, technically true, I suppose. But a lot of people use this sort of thinking to do whatever they feel is best rather than doing what the church, and by extension Christ, says is best.

[MarginOfError]

This is one of the only churches that I am aware of that tells you which building and services time you have to attend. I understand policy, but I have a difficult time reconciling that somehow or other Jesus is going to be displeased because you attended the wrong ward. My opinion, and that is all it is, is to do what you need to do to bring your family closer to Christ.

-RM

This is also one of the few churches that is built so expansively on the backs of volunteer clergy. As a practical matter, geographic boundaries are essential to maintaining a talent pool within each unit. If the Church were to give up geographic boundaries, you would have units that are especially attractive and draw people from far far away, and units that are horribly destitute of leadership and attended only by those that can't afford to go elsewhere.

Open boundaries is a luxury churches with professional clergy can afford because the professional clergy has a more uniform set of experience and training than do the lay clergy.

While I'm don't always like the geographic boundaries (and don't really care for the dogmatic rigidity with which they are enforced), I do understand that the combination of lay clergy and open boundaries would introduce an additional element of class divisions that I don't care to introduce into the Kingdom.

[ACommonMan]

While I'm don't always like the geographic boundaries (and don't really care for the dogmatic rigidity with which they are enforced), I do understand that the combination of lay clergy and open boundaries would introduce an additional element of class divisions that I don't care to introduce into the Kingdom.

Removing geographic boundaries also introduces an element of Bishop SoAndSo's church. Changes in leadership can prompt a migration to Bishop Smith's Ward because he's a little more lenient on Word of Wisdom issues, verses Bishop Jones, because he still thinks Coke-a-Cola is a violation.

Ward budgeting is also affected by attendance, so circumstances could arise where one ward has a much more elaborate parties than another. (one of the cited reasons for changing the budgeting system used pre-1989)

Lastly, and somewhat ironically, the class divisions (or cliques) within the ward was a major reason was my family petitioning to have our records moved. It was the most difficult part of my decision. I wanted to believe that I could help so many others by continuing to work from the inside, so to speak.

[Guest]

Removing geographic boundaries also introduces an element of Bishop SoAndSo's church. Changes in leadership can prompt a migration to Bishop Smith's Ward because he's a little more lenient on Word of Wisdom issues, verses Bishop Jones, because he still thinks Coke-a-Cola is a violation.

Ward budgeting is also affected by attendance, so circumstances could arise where one ward has a much more elaborate parties than another. (one of the cited reasons for changing the budgeting system used pre-1989)

Lastly, and somewhat ironically, the class divisions (or cliques) within the ward was a major reason was my family petitioning to have our records moved. It was the most difficult part of my decision. I wanted to believe that I could help so many others by continuing to work from the inside, so to speak.

Let's not forget that Sunday is not the only day we are at Church. There's Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching that would be difficult to implement on a "I go to whatever ward I want". There are youth programs, priesthood programs, and primary programs as well. There's fast offering collection, there's Missionary Trade-offs, there's Scouts, and Ward Mission activities... and so on and so forth. This becomes problematic especially if you're not geographically accessible.

We currently have a kid in my son's deacon's quorom that is always so confusing to assign responsibilities with. He goes back and forth between his divorced parents' wards. His records are in his dad's ward but in a lot of Fast Sundays he is staying with his mom in our ward so he is present when the kids assign fast offering routes and always wants to have a route too but he doesn't have one because he is not in our ward - but then his other ward assigns him a fast offering route and he is not there to collect it. And then my son, who is the Deacon quorum president submits his name as his counsellor and the bishop tells him he can't because his records are in the other ward which then makes it awkward because there are only 3 kids in the deacon quorum so he doesn't have anybody else to call...