Crisis Of Faith

[Missitta]

I am a lifelong member to the LDS church. I have been happily married for 6 years and have a beautiful 18 month old son. I never in my life thought I would go through something that would shake my faith to the very core but I just did and I need some advice.

My husband and I befriended a young woman from his work who had fallen away from the church and was wanting to come back to the fold. We are active average members. I wouldn't say we are overtly spiritual but have a strong faith in the church's teachings and felt we could help this young woman. Her major problem was, as she put it, and inability to keep her hands off men. She would come to church every Sunday after spending Saturdays at bars and different gentlemen's homes then cry to us that she really wanted to change and we believed her. For a good two years we worked with her on talking to her bishop and repenting and we believed she was honestly trying. This year changed everything.

Starting last March things got strange. She would think up reasons as to why she had to drop by our house when I was away at work. At their work, she would come crying to hubby for every reason and started saying things like "I wish you hadn't gotten married so young, then you could be free to date me" and so on. I began to get uncomfortable at the way she would act when I would come home from work when she was there and I asked my husband to stop letting her in when she dropped by when I wasn't home, even if she claimed she was having a crisis which he did. The final straw came when one day at work she told my husband that she had told the bishop that she had messed around with a married man and that her bishop was pressuring her to name names. She asked hubby what I would do if I thought he had been cheating on me and he said that I would leave him. He said she seemed to get excited about that so he told her they could no longer be friends which made her extremely upset and she yelled and screamed at him and stormed out of the office. Luckily, that was her last day there and we thought things would be fine. Then came General Conference in October.

My husband was called into a meeting with the bishop on General Conference which we thought was a little strange but whatever. He comes home and informs me she has pointed the finger at him as the person she had an affair with. She supposedly has "proof" of the affair and hubby is facing the possibility of excommunication. I of course am devistated. For one I have to decide whether or not I believe the affair really happened since she and hubby did spend time alone together and definitely had the opportunity and for another, I felt she and I were friends. Little did I know she was using me and my trust to get closer to my husband. So I go in to talk to the bishop myself. He presents me with the "evidence" which consists of some emails from her address supposedly from hubby which did not sound anything like him at all and the fact that hubby had some stratigically placed mole that did not really exsist. She made them up. He gave me dates and times that they had supposedly been together and I thought about them then realized that those times he had in fact either been with her but on the phone with me or not with her at all. Hubby was allowed to keep his temple recommend based on my defense and she was called in to talk with her bishop again. This went on for SIX MONTHS. She would come up with some new claim and we would be called in to defend hubby. The longer it went on the more obviously untrue her claims were. Like I said before, she made up moles that didn't exsist, claimed to be with him times when I was and so on and so on. We move out of the ward at this time but our records were not transferred until this was "cleared up" which happened in January. So we figure all is well. Hubby was off the hook and even her bishop told us he felt she had made it all up to try to get me to leave him so hubby would be with her. Here's where it really gets juicy.

So in October, after she implicates my husband, our favorite friend looks up my husband's best friend of 12 years who just went through a divorce and is emotionally friagile and easy to manipulate and the two of them start dating. Keep in mind we had tried to set the two of them up months before this because we felt they would be good together and she was not interested claiming he was "wierd" and "smelled funny." Her exact words. But then, suddenly he is desirable as a link to my hubby. Best friend starts getting mad that we are backing out of spending time with the two of them and the whole thing comes out. Best Friend sides with her, age old story, long and short of it, we don't talk to him anymore...his choice, not ours. But here's where the lack of faith thing comes into play. Best Friend and I Dont' Even Know What To Call Her Without Sounding Bitter decide to get married and are planning a temple marriage. Hubby comes from an extremely small town and there is a lot of chat not to mention his little group of friends to thissmall so everyone knows everything about everyone else, which I feel is part of her plan in all of this. Anywhoo, we question our bishop about this considering she was claiming she and my hubby knew each other in the biblical sense up until July which is still less than a year away not to mention best friend was with another girl up until September and the two of them were quite definitely...you know. And of course then there is the fact that Best friend and I Don't Know spent the night at each other's houses which all his friends knew but we didn't have pictures so apparently, didn't come into play. Our bishop, the stake president and even a member of the stake counsel tell us there is no way they can think of that the two of them can get temple recommends. Apparently they were wrong because the two of them got married two weeks ago in the same temple hubby and I were married in.

To say I am furious would be an understatement. This woman tried to tear our family apart, admittedly was trying to take my place as mother of my child and lied to every member of the stake high council and she gets to walk through those sacred temple doors like nothing ever happened. Three years ago hubby and I had our temple recommends suspended because we were unable to pay a full tithing because of extreme medical bills due to a surgery I had. And we were only behind two months because every spare penny that wasn't going to the hospital was going to tithing and we still had it suspended until we could catch up yet she nearly succeeds in getting an innocent man excommunicated and tearing apart an eternal family and there is no punishment? Not only that but she is a known liar and in the temple sense unworthy so I am baffled as to how this happened. She is obviously an accomplished liar so I figure she lied about her worthiness but wouldn't her bishop even if she changed bishops be aware of the battle we had to go through because of her? Hubby and I have been through a lot of faith shaking experiences including the death of his mother a mere month after we got married and nothing has me so shaken as this does. I feel that local church leadership views lack of a full tithing payment as more important than the near destruction of an eternal family. My mother told me it was because we told the truth about not being able to pay a full tithing and she must have lied to get her temple recommend but all that sounds to me is that we were punished for doing the right thing. The temple has lost it's sacredness (if that's a word) to me because in my mind they will obviously let anyone in even with plenty of proof as to their unworthiness. Hubby and I worked our whole lives to walk through those doors and viewed it as the greatest thing we could ever do and now it has lost all meaning when it is so easy to get there without all the hard work. Why bother being good and worthy people when all you have to do is lie and the doors will open to you. I am uncomfortable at church because I am just so angry with the whole thing and feel so betrayed by the local leaders of the church that I can't even stand looking my bishop in the eye. Hubby wants to have a meeting with him and tell him how we are feeling but I feel that if I am given the opportunity to spew the venom I have been swooshing around in my mouth I may make a few enemies in the church and cause problems for myself and my family.

So after all that rambling I guess my question is...where do I go from here? Am I just being a complete idiot about my feelings towards the local leadership? Do I have a right to feel betrayed by what happened and how it was handled? What now?

[Guest mamacat]

hi lilmiss ~

i am so sorry for this distress that you are feeling. i am new to the LDS church and i was very surprised at the amount of politics circulating there, and the way that it can damage your spirit. i've had a lot of untrue things said about me and my church behaving in very unfriendly ways toward me for reasons i still don't understand. my bishop accused me of having several illicit relationships almost immediately after i was baptized, and although i assured him that that there was nothing remotely like that going on with me, he refused to believe me. and i still do not understand why he wouldn't have discussed this with me before being baptized. we did try another ward in the same meetinghouse, and my son was ignored and made to feel very unwanted in primary. he was sobbing as we left that day. and i also really don't understand why anyone would do that to a 4 yr old. he behaved perfectly well in primary, except that he needed me to be in there with him. lots of kids, at first esp, need their moms to stay with them in primary.

it hurts and it hurts a lot to be treated so unfairly. and to be lied about i know is very painful as well. i'm still trying to find a way to resolve this, a new ward or stake, or something, but sometimes all i feel is despair about it.

my heart goes out to you, and i wish love and healing for you and your and your friends. remember, God knows your heart, and all he asks is that you stand strong in His light. this you can do. let your love for Him, your faith, and gratitude for all the beautiful things he has given you, such as a great husband fill your heart, and dissolve all the distress that is there.

love, mamacat

[CrimsonKairos]

Every coin has two sides, and we're only getting your side, but, assuming everything you have said is accurate, then your frustration is understandable.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because your "friend" lied her way into the temple (if indeed the facts you give are accurate) doesn't mean it was wrong for you to have to stay out until you caught up on your tithing.

You told the truth about tithe paying. You are and will be blessed for that.

Your friend lied, among other things. Just because she physically enters the temple does not mean the Lord will extend the blessings of temple attendance to her.

She is condemning herself and digging her hole deeper and deeper. The Lord will not be mocked. He probably won't strike her down with lightning, but she is forfeiting blessings, spiritual sensitivity, inner peace and worthiness before God.

The danger is that if you allow yourself to dwell on "how unfair it is for her to get away with all this," you will be unable to enjoy the blessings that flow to the honest and obedient (which it would appear you are). Forget her. The Lord is not fooled, nor ignorant. She is not getting away with anything.

I wouldn't blame your current bishop for not having all the facts that your previous bishop had about this matter. You have two choices at this point:

1.) Privately nurture anger, distrust and frustration.

2.) Leave it to the Lord, and enjoy life, your husband and the gospel.

I wish you well in your choice.

[Blessed]

"Three years ago hubby and I had our temple recommends suspended because we were unable to pay a full tithing because of extreme medical bills due to a surgery I had."

As an outsider I don't understand this at all. You have to "pay" to get your temple recommends??? That doesn't sound right.

[CrimsonKairos]

We pay a measely 1/10th of our income (which comes from God) back to God who gave it, and as we keep our part of the covenant we have made with God, He keeps his part and grants us the blessings of attending the temple.

The tithing doesn't go into the Bishop's personal checking account, or the temple president's, etc... It helps build temples, fund missionary work, contribute to Church welfare and other assistance programs, etc...

Blessings are predicated upon obedience to God. God requires a part of our substance and He blesses those who obey. Is it such a strange concept, even for an outsider?

[BenRaines]

Only time I have ever been asked about tithing was at tithing settlement at the end of the year. I know many who pay their tithing only at the end of the year and hold a temple recommend all year long.

Not sure why a Bishop would call someone in unless it was at end of year tithing settlement and usually members explain why and that they are full tithe payers.

I pay mine every payday but that is just me.

Ben Raines

[MaidservantX]

I am very, very sad at what I have heard, both of your stories mamacat and lilmiss. My heart hurts with you.

Most every one of us could tell stories -- I know I could -- of having unfair and faith shaking (and pick an adjective) experiences at the hands of other church members and leaders. I also could tell stories of when I was surprised at the church and church people's love and acceptance (and pick a good quality or act) of me.

Even when I made mistakes and sinned, I oddly enough -- in my sincere desires and later the beginning of my repentence process -- was able to feel the spirit enough to know that God (my Father) was with me, that he was on my side. He hurt with me too when bad things happened with church people.

I don't have a whole lot of advice. It sounds like that girl is basically ill -- not merely a sinner. Your feelings as you've expressed them are exactly what the rest of us need to remember of why the temple is sacred and why each of US should be sure we are worthy -- because we can see how it is possible to hurt two special people like you and your husband are.

Just cry out to your Father in heaven. He will hear you.

[wiley]

LilMiss,

Can I just applaud your efforts to try and help this person initially. I think you did the right thing by trying to help her out and bring her back into the fold and, but you were rewarded with contention, lies, and... well, someone who tried to break up your family. I can just feel the anger your husband must have gone through as he had to explain to his wife what he was being accused of and hoped she believed him. It would be very emotional for me. (Personally, I would be hard pressed to forgive someone who tried to destroy my family.) It is unfortunate that this had to happen despite your desire to help her repent. It shouldn't be this way, but I suppose it can happen. Perhaps one day, she will try to right all the wrongs she did to your family.

That said, I believe C_K is right

She is condemning herself and digging her hole deeper and deeper. The Lord will not be mocked. He probably won't strike her down with lightning, but she is forfeiting blessings, spiritual sensitivity, inner peace and worthiness before God.

The danger is that if you allow yourself to dwell on "how unfair it is for her to get away with all this," you will be unable to enjoy the blessings that flow to the honest and obedient (which it would appear you are). Forget her. The Lord is not fooled, nor ignorant. She is not getting away with anything.

Perhaps she too will be able to find forgiveness in the Lord's eye for all that she has done. I hope she is able to. He knows of all I have done, and I hope to find his forgiveness in that day as well. I hope you will find the strength to be able to move past this and be able to forgive her in your heart as well. Like I said before, this would be very difficult for me to do. But I still think it would be the right thing to do and I would applaud you even more if you were able to do it.

[Missitta]

((((mamacat)))) Thank you for your kind words. That was an excellent point....why didn't he discuss his concerns with you before you were baptised? I always believed the quote "the church is perfect, the people are not" and I believe that both of our cases definitely demonstrate this point sufficiently. :) As a mother to a beautiful little boy myself I can understand your frustration at the way he was treated in primary. You would think people would understand little kids would have issues with something new...but then again...sometimes common sense aint so common.

((((blessed))) I am afraid I didn't word that statement very well. I think CrimsonKairos explained it nicely. A lot of what goes in to getting a temple recommend is just obedience...at least I always figured it that way.

((((BenRaines))) Hubby and I went to the bishop ourselves to explain why our tithing suddenly dropped. Our temple recommend interviews were coming up in the next few months so he suspended them until our interviews with the understanding we would be able to get back up to full tithes by that time. Luckily we were.

((((CrimsonKairos))) I will admit I have had a hard time coming up with a response to you. In my heart I completely agree with what you are saying about leaving things to the Lord and putting my energies back into the things that matter aka my husband my family and in the church, but in my head I am still so angry and having such a hard time forgiving her for what she did. It was just so blatantly malicious and there was no reason for it, at least not that I can figure out. Hubby and I honestly thought she was our friend and were trying to help her in what we assumed was a genuine desire to repent. I agree there are two sides to every story but my account is completely accurate from where I stood in this entire mess. We went through six months of hearing her accusations, then I would have to soak them in, go back to the day that she claimed things happened in my mind and decide whether her accusations had merit or not. Let me tell you, not once did her claims have merit. I can only assume that our bishop, her bishop and the stake president were relaying what she said accurately. I have not spoken with her since the claims were made. I offered a sit down meeting with just her, me and both of our bishops but she refused. Whether it was because she knew I could discredit all of her accusations or that she was afraid I would pull a Tanya Harding on her for "messing with my husband" I couldn't say but I can't see how she would mistake having relations with someone and confusing that person with my husband unless she is completely psychotic...which I guess is always a possibility.

So back to the original point of my response...I logically know what I should do but getting past the hurt and betrayal I feel not only from her but from the leadership has been extremely difficult. I fully agree with our bishop at the times decision to suspend our temple recommend until we could return to full tithe payment. What I do not agree with is that there was no delay in her receiving her temple recommend for not only lying (because they obviously did not believe that it actually happened or my husband would not still have his temple recommend) but for trying to destroy an eternal family. I figured there should be something done but perhaps that is just still my need for vindication poking through. Like I said, I know in my heart I need to trust in the Lord and understand that He knows what He is doing but when it is all so fresh....it is hard to let go and just rely on trust when you feel so abandoned.

[CrimsonKairos]

I'm certainly not trying to tell you, "Snap out of it, take it on the chin, don't feel bad," etc...

I'm not in your shoes, haven't been through what you describe, and so wouldn't presume to tell you what to feel.

I do know from experience that when God tells us to forgive others, it's not for their sake, it's for our sake. Love and hate cannot co-exist in the same heart, not really. I think of it like so:

Imagine you're holding up a piece of paper in front of your face. On one side is written the word, "Anger." On the other side is written the word, "Happiness." Now you can't look at both sides of the paper at the same time. You either turn it so the word "anger" faces you, or you turn it so the word "happiness" faces you.

I'm not saying forgiving is easy, or that you should be over it by now. I'm simply saying that forgiveness feels great. I wish you the best as you get to the point where you can turn the paper so that the word "happiness" faces you and "anger" is forgotten.

But I know it's hard.

[Missitta]

((((xhenli))) you and wiley snuck in while I was blathering on. :) I know I am far from the first person that has been disappointed in the way the church handled a situation. I can't say I blame the leadership for their confusion on how to deal with this situation. The stake president said it straight out...he had never been faced with a situation like this before. Normally when there was an accusation, there was an affair. In this case there wasn't. I can't imagine the position they were put in. However, I do not think they handled the outcome very well at all. If there had been an affair my husband would have been excommunicated, no ifs ands or buts about it. If they had believed her the same would have happened whether he had been innocent or not. It would have been years that my husband and I would be able to enjoy the blessings of the temple together. I am beyond grateful that they saw through her obvious lies but had she gotten what she wanted there would have been enternal consequences for me and my family. Any children we had after this would not have been sealed to their father. I can only hope she realizes the implications of her actions now that she has been through the temple herself. But considering her prior behaviors, I doubt it.

(((Wiley))) I cannot even begin to tell you how blessed I feel to have a husband that stood by me while I worked through deciding whether I believed the accusations or not. He knew he didn't do it and he had faith in the Lord that I would realize that as well. Unfortunately I didn't have to be the only one that had to decide whether it happened or not. You hit the nail on the head when you said you would be hard pressed to forgive someone that came after your family. That is where all the trouble lies. I am normally a very easy going trusting person but you mess with my family, even more than that, you mess with the eternal nature of my family, and I become a wolverine. That is just not acceptable. I surprised the stake president during our first meeting with him. He said I seemed like such a small fragile person he was not expecting me to defend my husband so passionately when I was asked whether I believed it happened or not. She made a huge mistake when she came after my family when she assumed I would walk out the door without a fight.

((((CrimsonKairos)))) That paper analogy is great!

[Palerider]

I have to ask this question.....I have read all the posts and I am wondering....how you already knew your husband was facing excommunication....this is what you said in your very first post....were you just assuming this or did you have some inside information?????

[Missitta]

(((Palerider)))

Our bishop told us straight out if her accusations turned out to be true or they didn't have any reason to doubt that they were, hubby would be excommunicated. I am not sure he has the authority to make that decision or not but that's what he said. The stake president said the same thing the first time we met him, that hubby was facing excommunication with what she said had happened.

[Palerider]

I could see it if they said.....ex is the worst that could happen....but to just come out and say that.....that sounds a little speculative or their opinion.....wondering how your Bishop would or could say what he did when he wouldn't be able to hold the Church council himself......

[Missitta]

I honestly have no idea how the whole process works. This is the first time I have ever even heard excommunication mentioned firsthand. They said it rather definitively so I assumed they had the authority. Perhaps they just figured that would be the way it would go. Luckily it didn't get that far.

[Guest Yediyd]

I honestly have no idea how the whole process works. This is the first time I have ever even heard excommunication mentioned firsthand. They said it rather definitively so I assumed they had the authority. Perhaps they just figured that would be the way it would go. Luckily it didn't get that far.

lilmiss,

I was going to say something similer to what crimsonkiaros said as I agree with him hole heartedly, but instead...I'll say this...I know how it feels to be wronged...REALLY wronged, You feel justified in your anger, you feel like nobody else could possibly understand your hurt...these are feelings that are real to you, but untrue...someone DOES know,exactly how you feel, he loves you, and wants to heal that pain. Hold your head high, go to the temple of the lord and let him fill you...as for this other woman...she may have fooled some men in high positions at the church, but she hasn't fooled God. God has a balance, just be glad you are not her! I for one would not dare set foot in the Temple, unworthy...I may fool the people in charge...but I wouldn't want to face God with that sin on my back! Just think about that the next time you are feeling jealous about what you feel this woman got away with...she got away with NOTHING, don't you forget it, my friend!

May God bless you, and I'll say an extra prayer for all of you tonight...yes, even for HER!

Yediyd

[a-train]

Lilmiss,

OK,

I might sound coarse, but here it goes: GET OVER IT!!!!!

Let's first imagine that she is a stellar and upstanding citizen and your feelings are completely ill-founded. In this case you are bringing unhappiness and judgement upon yourself. It is your own pride that is stirring up a festering disease-ridden hate stew.

Now let's imagine she is a no good evil hussy (don't hurt yourself imagining too hard here). Is it somehow your fault if she goes perjuriously into the temple heaping damnation upon her head in mocking the covenants of God? Can you prevent her? In such a case, simply thank the good LORD you got away with your husband and marriage and try not to enter any buildings in-which she is present to prevent yourself from being killed by any bolts of lightning headed her way.

Next, let's imagine that she was a mess and is now all cleaned up. Imagine she is still rough around the edges, but imagine she eventually obtains exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom with this new husband and all is well with her in the end. Will you be mad? Will you and your husband in the Celestial Kingdom say: 'LORD, we like it here, but can our mansion be on a different continent than that gal?' Perhaps on the other side of the veil you will discover she had been a great friend and sister to you before your mortality and you will rejoice in her salvation and she in yours and both of you will laugh at your differences within mortal probation.

Regardless, it is all out of your hands and let your venting here and wherever else you vent make you feel better. Vent to the LORD, pray to Him and give Him a piece of your mind. That might sound like a joke, but I'm not kidding. Tell Him exactly what you think and picture yourself in His presence when you say that. You might just find peace there.

GOD BLESS and may He bless you and your marriage.

-a-train

[Hikchick]

I haven't read everyone's responses. However, when I feel the urge to say something (even if it has already been said) I usually say it. Someone once said, "Fools often tread where angels fear to go." So my footprints are usually all over the map! :S

Anyway, what I have felt strongly here (and please don't take offense... I tend to be blunt but don't mean to be harsh) is that you are concentrating on her sins, not your own spiritual growth. You are allowing her to stunt you in this area. It is so hard, especially when you have been wronged so grievously, to take into account what you can do better. I'm quoting someone, not sure who... "You can get bitter, or you can get better." It's all easy to say when it's not you going through the trial, I know. I've had my own bouts with family, bishops, etc., about what is going on that I don't agree with. I've learned that instead of praying that someone might notice their weaknesses so that it can't hurt you, you need to pray that your weakness is to not allow them to hurt you. You can't change another person, you can't make someone believe something they don't want to. From what I see, you have a great husband who realized when there was danger and didn't hesitate to push her away when you and he realized there were problems brewing. I applaud your honesty with your bishop. Please, I hope you don't think I'm pointing the finger at you and saying you are the problem. Quite the opposite.... What I am saying is that you can only control yourself. Keep in mind that in the big picture, she's not getting away with anything. Her sins will be put in front of her someday. The Lord will judge her. Keep the focus on your family, it's a wonderful blessing to have them! I admire your husband for being willing to stand with you in this and for you to stand with him, as well. You'll be in my prayers.

[Guest Username-Removed]

So after all that rambling I guess my question is...where do I go from here? What now?

Forgive.

One simple word, Forgive. Start now because it will take a while.

[Missitta]

Thank everyone for their resonses. I'm glad I found this place and such spiritual and open minded people.

I must say coming here has been both validating and humbling. This whole situation has me switching so rapidly through so many emotions it has been nice to get my feelings (vent as someone put it) out and having the ability to sort them out in my mind. Very few people know about this situation here. Hubby and I have decided not to enact "revenge" on her by telling people and ruining her reputation further even though at times I admit I would love to. The people that know came to us since as I said earlier, she married hubby's (former) best friend of 12 years and both are from a tiny town. There has been much talk among the locals as to why hubby was the best man at BF's first wedding yet not even invited to this one. BF's parents who are like second parents to hubby came straight out and asked us what was going on between us and BF. We told them as nicely as we could what was going on and they told us they would rather continue their relationship with us then start one with her. This leads into part of why my feelings in this are so confusing to me. For two years before all of this started I cared deeply for her and honestly wanted the best for her. I trusted her completely, not even alone with hubby but alone with my son as well. She would often babysit for us so hubby and I could go on dates since we very seldom saw each other at this time since I worked days and Hubby worked nights. (Now does that sound like someone who is trying to destroy a marriage?) I feel completely violated and betrayed by her as she used a LOT of innocent situations, including the birth of my son, as ammunition against my husband. I can't even begin to tell you how she did it because I have no idea. She somehow turned every little thing in our lives as evidence that hubby would rather be with her than me. Very often my feelings of anger towards her turn to pity. I pity whatever part of her felt like she had to sink so low to try to tear us apart. I pity that she destroyed any chance of having a relationship with BF's parents and friends even before they knew about this situation because of her own actions. I pity the fact that she walked into that temple unworthily (admittedly as far as I know). However I will be completely honest and I am actually embarrassed to admit this but at times the completely un Christlike angry side of me actually hopes entering the temple the way she did leads to her condemnation. How horrible am I?

Someone mentioned jealousy in an earlier post. I never viewed it from that point but after thinking about it, you are absolutely right. I decided I feel a lot like the prodigal son's brother when it seems that his father is favoring the returning son over the tried and true son. My husband (who is a convert of 8 years) jokingly compared the church to a cell phone company. He said it seems like they give lots of attention and perks to the new members while shoving the longterm customers aside. I do feel like the leadership was able to overlook a lot from both her and BF because the two of them were both former members who returned to the church for whatever reason and we never left.

Bottom line is I do need to forgive her. Perhaps I should try to focus more on my feelings of pity for her other than my feelings of anger and start from there. She has to be such a miserable person to be able to do something like this and not feel badly. At times through this whole thing I felt I did forgive her. Once was during the April conference and that wonderful talk on forgiveness. There is always that one talk you feel is directed completely at you and that was the one for me. Those times I feel I did forgive seem to not last very long so obviously, I haven't completely yet. Something will remind me of what happened or someone in the circle will come up with their assumption of what went on and the horrible feelings will come rushng back.

Maybe I should start with forgiving myself and realizing I did not let this happen.

Seems I have a lot of repenting to do.

[sixpacktr]

LilMiss,

Yes, you do have a lot of repenting to do, but who doesn't?

FWIW, give the whole forgiveness thing some time. You are too close to the situation now to really let go. This woman tried to take your family apart. With time, you will see that it strengthened your marriage and your ability to trust in your HF, and it will have been worth it, and the forgiveness thing will be much easier. The feelings of hurt and betrayal and absolute rage will go away and will be replaced with forgiveness, pity, and a desire for that person to make it (remember the Sons of Mosiah, in Alma 28:3) as well. Your revenge will be replaced with love, and you will make it.

As for your Bishop and other leaders, always remember that you don't know all of the story. Having served with a Bishop I knew a lot of things, and yet had just a portion of the picture in many instances. Those that do not sit in counsel with the Bishops know only hearsay and innuendo, and that is usually nothing close to what is truly happening. These men do a wonderful job, and we need to give them every benefit of the doubt, and know that they Lord will bless us for it.

Good luck to you. You will be blessed for doing what is right and remaining faithful.

[Guest mamacat]

hi lilmiss ~

i might be able to offer something that will help you understand and forgive your church leadership. situations such as yours are very delicate, and sometimes very difficult to remain objective about.

let me explain. quite a while ago i was friends with a couple who seemed to like me. they arranged dates with their friends for me and it was all quite fun. then i began to notice that every time we were out with friends that the husband would always sit close to me...sitting together at a table he would always take the opportunity to rub his foot up and down my leg. at first i thought it was an accident but it continued to happen. it shocked me so much that i first i didn't believe it. then, rather than destroy our friendship, or theirs with those to whom i was close, i chose to ignore him, and to avoid him as much as possible. at one point we all were on a camping trip together, a group of friends, including this couple, and we were swimming in the river at night. i felt the familiar feet rubbing my legs, and then his arms were around my waist and elsewhwere....i got away as fast as i could, and avoided him even more. but after that i told my mother about it, that i was worried about this causing disharmony among our friends, and between the couple. i was afraid to say anything to anyone else, because i didn't wish to cause discord among us. in retrospect i should have confronted him, but i was afraid to do so.

then after some time passed, a big group of friends, including this couple and me, were gathered for the weekend together at a vacation house. i wasn't worried about him, my mother was there, she knew my situation and so i just avoided him. later in the evening after some people had gone to sleep, some of us were watching a movie. i excused myself to go the restroom. i was walking back to the living room where everyone else was watching the movie, and from another room, this man grabbed my arm and pulled me into a dark room and closed the door. he pushed me to the floor and was on top of me before i knew what was happening. i was terrified, i was afraid to yell, as i knew that such a scene would cause enormous disruption in our group. i was panicking, and trying to get away from him without causing a scene, without drawing attention to our struggle. as i was struggling to get away from him, his wife walked in the room and immediately started screaming at me, calling me names, and yelling at what she thought was the two of us together. it didn't matter what i said, she was consumed with unconsolable rage and fury, and the entire house was awake and listening to her accusations.

no one believed me when i told them the truth. the last thing in the universe i wanted was to be the cause of such a disruption between them. if i had said anything before, i knew i would be seen as the culprit. i asked my mother to explain to our friends what i had told her previously, but that didn't have much impact with them.

i think that your church leadership must understand the dynamics of such events. while i am not at all suggesting any similarity between your situation and mine, i am suggesting, and praying, that perhaps the church leadership is very very careful in assessing the highly emotional nature of these kinds of entanglements. the husband didn't tell the truth about what really happened with us, as i knew he wouldn't if i had broached the subject with him or anyone else. my mother said that she thought that he had many extra-marital affairs and lied about it to everyone quite glibly and without remorse. they were church going, upstanding citizens, and i know that he wouldn't have compromised his position by admitting what he had done.

perhaps your church leadership is just extremely cautious in such events in order not to hurt anyone unjustly. please understand that. perhaps this will help with your healing and forgiving, at least in terms of your faith in your church.

peace and love, mamacat

[Hikchick]

Mamacat,

You've brought to my mind something that isn't said much within our church. Yes, our leaders are called of God. So I think that we think they should be perfect. That's the hard pill to swallow.... they are human. Sometimes (even though we don't like to think it or admit it) we need to remember that they are fallible. What we need to trust in is that come judgement day everyone will understand their sins, be able to understand what pain they have caused others and will be faced with the consequences.

My husband has a poem that I try to always keep in mind... I'm sorry I don't know who wrote it.

"When you get to heaven, you will likely view people whose presence

is a shock to you. But do not be dismayed, and do not stare, for they will be quite likely to be just as shocked to see you there!"

If we obsess about what someone else has done to us then we aren't allowing ourselves to heal. I don't mean to preach, just saying things that I have recently gone through myself.

Best of luck!

[Guest mamacat]

Mamacat,

You've brought to my mind something that isn't said much within our church. Yes, our leaders are called of God. So I think that we think they should be perfect. That's the hard pill to swallow.... they are human. Sometimes (even though we don't like to think it or admit it) we need to remember that they are fallible. What we need to trust in is that come judgement day everyone will understand their sins, be able to understand what pain they have caused others and will be faced with the consequences.

My husband has a poem that I try to always keep in mind... I'm sorry I don't know who wrote it.

"When you get to heaven, you will likely view people whose presence

is a shock to you. But do not be dismayed, and do not stare, for they will be quite likely to be just as shocked to see you there!"

If we obsess about what someone else has done to us then we aren't allowing ourselves to heal. I don't mean to preach, just saying things that I have recently gone through myself.

Best of luck!

thanks Hikchik. personally, i would be entirely delighted to see every person i have ever known in heaven...and, i do believe that is God's plan as well. i have faith in His ways.

[Dr T]

From what we know, how do you justify that everyone you've known will be in heaven and that being God's plan?