Using church members as potential customers for business ventures...

[mirkwood]

I don't have a problem with people offering an invitation to "sales parties." As long as they are not pushy, I can say yes or I can say no. I don't mind if someone starts a business and wants to tell me about it, as long as they are not pushy. I might be interested. I see it from both sides. I have a small business that I run. I spent a year with it, vacillating about advertising it through friends etc. I decided to share the information with my email lists and on several websites to get the information out there in case someone is interested. If you search for it, you can find it here. It is a balancing act. I will only tell "the group" one time and if they are interested they can contact me. It is the pushy used car salesman that rubs me wrong, or MLM. I don't like MLM's...at all.

Edited February 5, 2014 by mirkwood

[Palerider]

I don't mind the invites. I can decline if not interested. My wife will do the same. I don't like pushy, because sometimes I get attitude with pushy. About a year ago someone invited my wife to a "Thrive" party and that's how we got into that. We don't sell it but we purchase it put in our food storage.

[Wingnut]

I think I align most here with mirkwood. I own my own business, and I make an effort to not rely on my church friends. Partly because I value our friendships more than running the risk of souring something, and partly because I want to expand my professional network and client base outside of my own personal circles.

[Sharky]

We have some members in our ward that are now very adamantly inactive & disinterested in the church due to "prior business dealings" with their Bishop or Stake President.

Seems some years ago while in Colorado they invested big into their Bishops (he might have been their Stake President) investment business/opportunities ... which were actually nothing more then a multi-million dollar ponzie scheme.

Eventually the scheme tumbled & knowing it was all going to come to light he "confessed" publicly, claiming to feel bad & sorrow since so many of his ward & stake members had invested in his "opportunities".

Anyhow, this particular family that now lives in my ward are very anti-LDS as a result.

My basic response?

Did they invest because he was their LDS Clergy?

-or-

Did they check out his business & the investment opportunities he was offering?

From what I gather, a lot of people did not invest because when they researched it all, something did not add up .... A lot of people invested very rapidly trusting in him because he was an LDS Clergy. Clergy or not, he was/is a man & therefore open to the temptations of man & therefore researching his company & investment opportunities would be nothing more then self-preservation & smart investing.

So it comes back to, business is business ... if you are able to conduct business while keeping a friendship then great but in general I always feel like I have to be very specific & transparent when doing business with friends so that they can see clearly that I am not taking advantage of them.

Now in small-town USA where I live, a big chunk of your everyday base is friends ... it's sometimes difficult when you know details of their financial situations & hardships etc & yet you still need to feed your own family.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Sharky

[skippy740]

Affinity Fraud

[Blackmarch]

my experience so far is that I have only been approached once. so its not too common to where I've been.

[lagarthaaz]

Thanks everyone - it's good to have some different perspectives on the matter. I have never had a problem with the occasional invitation from a friend who wants to make a bit of extra money and asks me to view their new product. But this is not the same, this is a LOT of people I barely know calling/emailing/facebooking to get me to buy their stuff, and it's really starting to feel like an invasion of privacy. I do wonder if it's become an acceptable part of the ward culture that's gotten out of hand.

I did feel the 'help a single mother' comment was manipulative. I've been that single mother too, and would have been mortified if anyone tried to get people to buy my stuff out of guilt. I'm at the point now that when I get a call or see a 'friendly' email from a church member, I wait for the sales pitch at the end. What I really hoped for after six years in this ward full of close-knit friendship groups and extended families - was some genuine extension of the hand of friendship.

I have a friend (a church member from another ward) who became very wealthy from selling one of the weight-loss 'berry' products, and I remember him trying to sell the stuff to me way back when he got started So I do understand why people see that dream come true for him and his family, and hope they can be the next success story. Using church members to make money to achieve that dream doesn't seem right to me though.

I suppose I don't have any other choice but to keep politely declining and hopefully word will get around.

Thanks for the feedback once again everyone. If nothing else I feel a clearer perspective after having a vent.

[Wingnut]

I do wonder if it's become an acceptable part of the ward culture that's gotten out of hand.

Due to the nature of Facebook and its facilitation of casual acquaintances sharing and knowing everything about their and your personal lives, I think it's less of a "ward culture" thing and more of a "culture" thing that's gotten out of hand.

[lagarthaaz]

For sure, social media websites have certainly changed the boundaries for what is socially acceptable. Don't even get me started on that one

[LDSCubsFan]

I have just received yet another 'invitation' to view some products at a church member's house, along with a separate 'invitation' to view some videos plugging herbal products. I swear not a month goes buy when another church member isn't 'inviting' me to buy something. Last month I was invited to a 'girls night' and was happy because I was actually being included in a friendship group at church. Then once I accepted, I was told, "oh, by the way I will have a friend there who is selling environmentally friendly cleaning products, but of course you're under no obligation to buy, it really is just a reason to get us all together." The month prior I was invited to 'help a single mother' who was trying to get her start selling products... when I said I wasn't interested then the guilt-trip was used - "oh, you wouldn't come over even to help a single mother?". Um - NO.

Anyway, I'm really tired of being pestered by church members trying to sell me stuff. Makeup, cleaning products, scented candles, educational toys, kitchen products, lingerie, time-share apartments, the list keeps growing.

Does anyone else have this problem or am I just overreacting? I'm seriously tired of it!

Personally, I don't think we should be using our church contacts to sell anything as I find it unethical. It also makes me feel a bit demeaned because most of these invitations come from people who barely even say hello at church - but when they want to sell something, well, suddenly they want me in their house for a couple of hours.

I have a husband with a home-based business who has not been getting much work for a long time, but I would no more think of plugging his services to church members than fly to the moon...to me that seems exploitative and church is just not the place to be networking for the purpose of making money. Again, maybe I'm weird?

Any suggestions for how to deal with this?

I have not noticed that in my ward. What I have noticed, though, is that Church members try to keep money within the Church. For example, when the bishop thinks a couple needs marital counseling, he will refer them to professional marital and family therapists, who are conveniently members of the Church. In my previous ward one of the members was a real estate agent. Naturally, she was given all the referrals to new families who moved into the ward and needed to buy a home.

[dahlia]

Here in Utah you don't even need to use the ward directory. Everyone in the ward is within about a 2-4 block radius and you all know each other. :)

I am trying to get my head around the idea of everyone in your immediate vicinity being Mormon and knowing everyone because they're in the same ward. Mind blowing! I have got to get to Utah, at least once for the experience. It's probably like Portnoy's experience of going to Israel and being surrounded by Jews (Portnoy's Complaint - you gotta be a certain age to remember that one).

[Sharky]

I am trying to get my head around the idea of everyone in your immediate vicinity being Mormon and knowing everyone because they're in the same ward. Mind blowing! I have got to get to Utah, at least once for the experience. It's probably like Portnoy's experience of going to Israel and being surrounded by Jews (Portnoy's Complaint - you gotta be a certain age to remember that one).

I think that is the BIGGEST reason why I won't even consider ever moving back to Utah.

I use not wanting to leave the farm as a convenient excuse when my wife mentions wanting to move back to Utah when we both "fully retire" but the reality is I don't want to go back to where "everyone" is a member & wards are comprised a few blocks ...

I really enjoy being in a rural area where what religion you are doesn't matter, where no particular religion is dominant, an area where people choose to live for 1 of 3 reasons (either strong ties to the rural community, or they farm, or they moved out here to "hide" ... & it doesn't really matter why).

Edited February 13, 2014 by Sharky

[Guest]

I think that is the BIGGEST reason why I won't even consider ever moving back to Utah.

I use not wanting to leave the farm as a convenient excuse when my wife mentions wanting to move back to Utah when we both "fully retire" but the reality is I don't want to go back to where "everyone" is a member & wards are comprised a few blocks ...

I really enjoy being in a rural area where what religion you are doesn't matter, where no particular religion is dominant, an area where people choose to live for 1 of 3 reasons (either strong ties to the rural community, or they farm, or they moved out here to "hide" ... & it doesn't really matter why).

I don't understand this sentiment. I grew up Catholic in a country with 80% Catholic population. What religion you are doesn't matter because everybody is assumed Catholic. It is awesome. Because, you go to the drug store, you won't find condoms or Cosmopolitans staring you in the face. There's always fish in the cafeteria on Fridays and nobody stares when you have that black mark on your forehead on Ash Wednesday. Schools and Work are closed on Good Friday and no sports activities are scheduled on Sunday. All your friends are at 4AM mass everyday for the 9 days before Christmas, so you wake up and go too without needing your Mom to nag you because that's where you want to go. Nobody bothers to ask if you're Catholic, so your non-Catholic friends go to 4AM mass and it's just cool. If you're not at mass, they just assume you'd rather sleep. You get to go with your friends to Flores de Mayo and all your friends spend afternoons making angel wings so your mother doesn't have to nag you to get your wings done.

Life is just so much simpler when the village shares the same values so you can just let your kids be raised by the village no problem.

Of course, if you're the one and only Muslim in the village of Catholics, then yeah. That might be a problem.

[Iggy]

Back before internet social media, a sister in our branch used the church directory to send her new business info to all of us. If we had an email addy, then we also got loaded down with advertisements from her new business.

Getting her junk mail via the US Postal service AND through my email addy made me a very UNhappy camper. But when she sold the address's to other advertisers, then that was the breaking point.

Not only did I complain to my Branch President, I sent the same complaint to the Stake President.

I had to change my email addy to put a stop to the spam. Her mother was VT Coordinator and she kept asking me for my new email addy. I told her she could have it when cows sprouted wings and started flying.

Semi-active sisters use the church directory when their daughters get pregnant and need baby items, or get married and need household items. If I don't know them, I don't accept the invitation. I don't think that the church building should be used to host the showers either, and I won't contribute to a money fund or a sign up sheet being passed around on Sunday at RS.

The last time this was done - money donation- I asked the RS Presidency what were they doing? Did the Branch President give the okay for them to do this? Nope, they never asked the Branch President, and they had to return the money.

We have a sister in the RS Presidency who sells Avon, and another who is a Tupperware rep. They both were told that they cannot leave catalogs, order books on church property. They have to settle for the magnetic signs stuck to their vehicles.

[Quin]

I have not noticed that in my ward. What I have noticed, though, is that Church members try to keep money within the Church. For example, when the bishop thinks a couple needs marital counseling, he will refer them to professional marital and family therapists, who are conveniently members of the Church. In my previous ward one of the members was a real estate agent. Naturally, she was given all the referrals to new families who moved into the ward and needed to buy a home.

Part of that (bolded) is also just plain smart

- LDS Family Services can make counseling possible for families who could not otherwise afford it.

- Most of the world doesn't give a hoot about many issues that are very dear to Mormons

(pornography &/or masturbation are considered a healthy part of many, if not most marriages, for example. The counseling outside of an LDS perspective is usually focused on how to help the other spouse feel less threatened/jealous of normal/healthy sexuality (unless it's sex-addiction, which is another kettle of fish)... and as long as it's not an affair, sex outside of marriage is considered normal & even laudable. Right after my divorce, you probably can't imagine the number of people urging me to go have a good one night stand to 'wash that man right out of my hair'. Including one of my counselors. (The not-LDS one).

Q

[Quin]

I don't understand this sentiment. I grew up Catholic in a country with 80% Catholic population. What religion you are doesn't matter because everybody is assumed Catholic. It is awesome. Because, you go to the drug store, you won't find condoms or Cosmopolitans staring you in the face. There's always fish in the cafeteria on Fridays and nobody stares when you have that black mark on your forehead on Ash Wednesday. Schools and Work are closed on Good Friday and no sports activities are scheduled on Sunday. All your friends are at 4AM mass everyday for the 9 days before Christmas, so you wake up and go too without needing your Mom to nag you because that's where you want to go. Nobody bothers to ask if you're Catholic, so your non-Catholic friends go to 4AM mass and it's just cool. If you're not at mass, they just assume you'd rather sleep. You get to go with your friends to Flores de Mayo and all your friends spend afternoons making angel wings so your mother doesn't have to nag you to get your wings done.

Life is just so much simpler when the village shares the same values so you can just let your kids be raised by the village no problem.

Of course, if you're the one and only Muslim in the village of Catholics, then yeah. That might be a problem.

Yep!

(Can't find an open source pic of this!)

Funny Family Ecard: I homeschool because I have ... | Homeschool Humor

Q

[Sharky]

I don't understand this sentiment. I grew up Catholic in a country with 80% Catholic population. What religion you are doesn't matter because everybody is assumed Catholic. It is awesome. Because, you go to the drug store, you won't find condoms or Cosmopolitans staring you in the face. There's always fish in the cafeteria on Fridays and nobody stares when you have that black mark on your forehead on Ash Wednesday. Schools and Work are closed on Good Friday and no sports activities are scheduled on Sunday. All your friends are at 4AM mass everyday for the 9 days before Christmas, so you wake up and go too without needing your Mom to nag you because that's where you want to go. Nobody bothers to ask if you're Catholic, so your non-Catholic friends go to 4AM mass and it's just cool. If you're not at mass, they just assume you'd rather sleep. You get to go with your friends to Flores de Mayo and all your friends spend afternoons making angel wings so your mother doesn't have to nag you to get your wings done.

Life is just so much simpler when the village shares the same values so you can just let your kids be raised by the village no problem.

Of course, if you're the one and only Muslim in the village of Catholics, then yeah. That might be a problem.

The sentiment?

Small rural communities ... we are talking 3, 4, 5 hour drives to the "city" & even then the "city" is far from being a metro area.

Small rural communities where I prefer to live, are totally dependent on the members of that community to pull together & work together ... my survival is dependent on the community members & their survival is dependent me doing my part.

In these areas what religion one chooses to affiliate with has little bearing on their position or value to the community.

All too often when I lived n Utah, those who were not Mormon or who were not active Mormon were frequently excluded because so often "community happenings" were either planned around the church or planned by members of the church ... & quite frankly, when 85% of the population is active Mormon it is very easy to "forget" to find ways of involving the outside 15%.

Now if "fellowshipping" were taking place, that 15% would always be involved or great efforts would be made to find ways of involving them; unfortunately I rarely saw much fellowshipping when I lived in Utah ...

We were (at that time, not any more) among the "less actives" that were contacted maybe 3 times in 8 years & we were somewhat "friendless" when it came to the community/ward for no other reason than we did not have the constant association with all our neighbors due to our inactivity in the church.

When what religion doesn't matter, when everyone matters simply because they are a part of the entire community .... that's where I am happiest ... but that's me & I know that rural life is not a lifestyle for the vast majority of the population.

[Guest WildCat58]

I use and sell essential oils. A couple of ladies at church asked me what I use for some of the debilitating and painful illnesses that I have and I explained how the oils have greatly helped me. They wanted to try them, so I went to their homes and showed them how to use the products, even rubbed their legs and feet with them. I didn't charge one penny for doing this. I also gave them several small bottles of product for no charge, even though I had paid for them myself. One of them bought oils from me, the other one didn't, but I don't mind. I don't "try" to sell the products, even though I am a consultant for the company, I primarily signed on as a consultant so that I can get discounts on my own purchases. I personally would prefer not to be asked to make purchases while at church, nor do I want to be invited to jewelry parties, etc., but I am not going to be totally upset if it does happen. I am not that much of a prude.