It's what in your heart that counts. REALLY???

[prisonchaplain]

My 11-year old tells me her sixth-grade friends sometiems say, "Why should I care about the Bible?  It's so old!"  She responds that it being old is what makes her want to believe it.

 

It hit me this Sunday.  Our passage was Judges 5--the Song of Deborah.  The Israelites face a great battle, and the tribes are called upon to send soldiers.  The song details each tribe's response.  That of Reuben hit me as oh-so 2014:

 

15 And the princes of Issachar were with Deborah; even Issachar, and also Barak: he was sent on foot into the valley. For the divisions of Reuben there were great thoughts of heart.  (KJV)

 

The princes of Issachar were with Deborah;
    yes, Issachar was with Barak,
    sent under his command into the valley.
In the districts of Reuben
    there was much searching of heart. (NIV)

 

We say this all the time.  Can you help?  Oh, I have to search my heart on that.  Really, it is usually just so much psychobabble.  We don't want to do it, but want to appear to be giving it serious consideration.

 

3000 years ago--roughly 2800 years before the discipline of psychology even developed, here is the tribe of Reuben "searching their hearts."

 

Mind you--the song is taunting and mocking Reuben.  The battle is raging brothers, and you are pondering in your hearts what to do???  Really?

 

I find myself wanting to tell people that "50 shades of gray" is not a world view.  It's not philosophy.  It's soft porn!  Yet, when we face choices, and know what is right and wrong, we suddenly babble on about gray areas, asking, "Who's to judge?" 

 

To be a bit harsh, wasn't it Pilate who asked, "What is veritas (truth)?"

 

There is right and wrong, black and white, up and down, good and bad, God and Satan, heaven and hell.  The truly gray area is small and thin indeed.

 

And the Bible got it 3000 years ago!  Old indeed!  Well...give me that old time religion, amen.

 

[Palerider]

Interesting Prison Chap.....most LDS congregations had this lesson this past Sunday or in the coming week. We had a nice discussion on how children turn away from the teachings of God and how good friends like Deborah can help us etc....

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Great points PC.

 

I think it depends on how you look at it.  For example, I agree completely with what you said in your post.

 

However, only reading the title of thread, I thought of Corrie Ten Boom and her sister-in-law.  For those who haven't read The Hiding Place, Corrie and her family were Christians living in Holland during the time of Hitler.  They were doing all they could to help the Jewish people.  Corrie's sister-in-law believed that she should be honest at all times, even with the Nazi's and the Lord would bless her for doing so.  Corrie believed that it was alright to lie to Nazi's in order to save lives.

 

As the story unfolds, see that even their opinions about lying differed, in their hearts they both wanted to serve the Lord--and you see the miracles that occurred to help them do that.  (Though I must note since I agree with Corrie, she actually helped more people .  Still they were both blessed for "what was in their heart." 

 

But as I said, I agree with you PC.  I think we both have the same goal in our hearts--to love and serve Christ.  :)

[prisonchaplain]

There are exceptions to every rule--but I fear we live in a generation and culture that believes almost every scenario is that exception.  Again, overwhelming grayness, with white and black only at the fringes.  My argument is that the gray is a very narrow band, and that those exceptions, if they be mere exceptions, must needs be few and far between. 

[Guest]

It's what's in your heart that counts.  I agree with that completely.

 

What counts in your heart is a pure humble, sincere, honest desire to seek the truth of the Kingdom of God.  As each person is born with the Light of Christ within them, their desire to seek the truth will lead them to Christ.

[Traveler]

It is not hard to understand that there is a G-d and there is a Satan.  That there is good and there is bad, light and darkness and so on and so on.  However, which are the armies of G-d and which are the armies of Satan?  There are many wars going on around the world - where is G-d's army engaged?  Not so long ago we became aware of a stand off in Nevada between a rancher trying to make a living and agents of our government trying to uphold a law that few citizens (and perhaps government bureaucrats) have any idea not only what the law is but the conditions and circumstances (who influenced) under which the law was crafted by region or state.  So which of the armed and serious individuals were standing for G-d and which were standing for Satan?

 

There are many charitable agencies collecting goods and money to provide services for the poor and needy - but which are under the direction of men and which is under the single purposes of G-d?  

 

This thread was started over the validity of the Bible and its application in our day.  I have asked the question before and there is little honest response.  In Genesis we are told that fruit trees and grass producing seed existed on earth (Day 3 of creation) - not just before there were seasons but before the sun and moon was established in the sky of our planet earth (Day 4 of creation).  How important is it to believe the Bible more than our college science courses?

 

If we are to stand with G-d for truth, light, all that is good and stand in opposition to Satan - Where do we go and stand?  At Church? - with a particular political party or ideology?  And what do we do and where do we stand if we think we have figured out an issue and we find atheists that do not love and respect G-d wanting to stand with us on that particular issue and religious people claiming to love G-d standing against us?

 

And what do we do in time of war when our government calls Christians even from our congregations into a war to fight against those that oppose us but at the same time call Christians of their citizens from congregations we support within their borders to fight with them and against us? 

 

I do not mean this to be offensive - but I do not think I need a Bible or a Book of Mormon to help me discern the obvious cases between light and darkness and good and evil.  And if the Bible or the Book of Mormon does not help me discern between the un-obvious cases of gray - what use are they to me or anyone else confused by some things of our day?

 

I can only speak for myself - but as inspired and wonderful as ancient scripture is - if G-d is not by my side directing me - I cannot know where to stand with him on hardly anything.  I find the ancient scriptures as a vague guide that will only be helpful if I am engaged also with a great many other things - doing the best I can with actual deeds of kindness towards others - even my enemies and praying often, utilizing my resources in tithes and offerings - and trying to do and be good.  And then I hear criticism from those that tout the Bible - saying that I am not on G-d's side because the Bible says we cannot earn good things through G-d.  Really????  My life experience is the exact opposite - that it is only through G-d at our side that we can earn anything good (treasures in heaven).

[prisonchaplain]

There is not doubt but that the Bible, or any word from God, is but a tool--and a dangerous one--without submission to the Spirit.  However, just because Truth is not always obvious does not mean it is not usually so.  Do we not too easily accept the excuse that there are exceptions, there is uncertainty, and therefore, really--who's to judge?  Most things are clear, and we hold up our allegedly well-meaning hearts as a talisman against the reality that we chose the easy route, the expedient solution, the good over the great, the safe over the God-ordained.

 

To use an obvious case--if Hitler was evil, then who was right?  The Christian German patriot who fought to restore national honor or Deitrich Boenhoeffer (sp?), who committed treason, in attempting to stop that the Fuher? 

 

Ultimately, I'm arguing against trusting our first whims, our earliest passions.  The Spirit, indeed our prayers, ought to SUSTAIN the wisdom already sought out.  OR, they ought to direct us towards wisdom.  We need passion and knowledge.  Without both, we'll either be lead astray, or we'll be found lifeless in our efforts.

[prisonchaplain]

It's what's in your heart that counts.  I agree with that completely.

 

What counts in your heart is a pure humble, sincere, honest desire to seek the truth of the Kingdom of God.  As each person is born with the Light of Christ within them, their desire to seek the truth will lead them to Christ.

 

The very fact that Anatess and I disagree about this proves that I am right.  Hey, one of us is wrong about this, and neither of us is known for squishy grayness.   

[Guest]

The very fact that Anatess and I disagree about this proves that I am right.  Hey, one of us is wrong about this, and neither of us is known for squishy grayness.   

 

And here's your exhibit #1:

 

PC thinks we're on opposite poles on this one... little does he know we are in complete agreement... he's just looking at the bottle from the neck while I'm looking at the bottle from the butt.

 

And therein lies the problem of why we all think we disagree... when we both desire to follow God.

 

:)

[Colirio]

Good enough for The Lord, but not for PC?!?

"But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7)"

[prisonchaplain]

God can judge our hearts.  We can't--not even our own.  We give ourselves and our trusted loved ones far too much leeway.  Our opponents?  Not so much.

 

Solomon said it best.  The purpose of life is to fear God and obey his commands.  Any protestations of meaning well, or of having a good heart, despite appearances--well, take that up with the only one who can judge hearts.  :-)

[Colirio]

Well, aside from ribbing you earlier, I agree with your points about there not being enough TRUTH being taught in the world that there is GOOD and there is EVIL. Therefore there is RIGHT and there is WRONG.

Lucky for all of us,

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

[prisonchaplain]

Colirio...thank you.  I'd used that verse before--very powerful--especially behind the walls.  The book/chapter/verse had escaped me though--so kudos 2 U! 

[Windseeker]

There was a whole thread on the meaning of "heart" in the gospel.

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/9194-the-scripture-meaning-of-heart/ 

 

I like in particular the idea that heart is more then feelings.

 

It is important to note that in the ancient Semitic idiom, the heart was the seat of thought.

~ volgadon

 

Certainly the worst evils in the world are committed by those who put their "good intention" and "feelings of the heart" above principle. I certainly am loathe to think that the Lord is going to judge us solely on our heart felt intentions rather then the actual good and evil we added or retracted from the world.

[gmarasca]

I believe It really is what's in your heart that counts, if that wasn't the case my conversion story is a perfect lie, and so would be the promptings of the spirit. I believe that God is constantly talking with us through our feelings, mind and heart, and it is up to us to give heed to those promptings. Plus, I think every case is a case, if we're talking about sin. every person is different, with different backgrounds, and therefore, deserve to be treated differently from each other in the end. Obviously, the judgement of God towards the Prophet will be MUCH harder and strict than mine. So, I guess my reply is, It is what is in your heart PLUS the knowledge you have that counts.

there is a scripture in romans that says that where there's no law, there's no sin, so we could pretty much ignore the argument that "the world is gonna burn in hell", because most people don't know squat about God out there

[prisonchaplain]

Grace is so wonderful.  Mercy, so incredible.  However, neither mitigates our sins.  Our sins have not been declared understandable by God.  We are not justified in our sin.  Rather, we are FORGIVEN.  Even the woman caught in adultery was never exonerated.  Instead, Jesus displayed mercy, and told her to go and sin no more.  Paul's words in Romans explained the purpose of the law.  He also said that God is revealed, so we are without excuse. 

 

This world will be destroyed.  Burned up.  We're looking towards a new heaven and a new earth.  What matters from our heart is whether or not we will, having felt/heard the wooing of the Holy Spirit, respond.  Will we repent?  Will we submit to God?  If so, forgiveness is there.  Never exoneration.  Never approval or justification FOR our sins.  Rather, we are justified by the horrific price of Jesus' shed blood--FROM our sins.

[Blackmarch]

There are exceptions to every rule--but I fear we live in a generation and culture that believes almost every scenario is that exception.  Again, overwhelming grayness, with white and black only at the fringes.  My argument is that the gray is a very narrow band, and that those exceptions, if they be mere exceptions, must needs be few and far between. 

and so it is...... but that doesnt stop the adversary (and by extension the world) in expanding that band to sucha point where it is almost impossible to see a change from one shade to the next.

[MaggieM]

Well, there is alot of things I wouldn't want to come back from Bibical days. The punishments (mostly death) don't fit the crime, like killing adulterers and homosexuals. 

 

There really isn't any solution that fits everyone....So that is why I do believe in grey areas that aren't narrow. You don't know why people do things - alot of times we ourselves don't know. We aren't mind readers, nor do we always understand what a person went through or if they have any mental disabilities that cause them to act out or not act normally. 

 

Our outward actions don't always show our righteousness. Our love and heart does.