Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I still haven't seen a clear answer on this: Are we saying one must be in one's life career before getting married, or just have a reasonable grip on finances and support? I am saying one must be able to provide basic needs for a family before they get married. I do not believe in the "I am unemployed, my soon-to-be wife is unemployed, we do not have money for rent or food or clothes but we will get married anyways, have children under these circumstances because it is a commandment of the Lord but the Church and family can help us financially". Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I know you asked TFP and he answered but I would like to share my experience with exactly this question When I returned home from my mission I had a plan. I knew I wanted a family and I knew I needed to be able to support them. So I figured out what I wanted to do and picked a school that would help me get the skills I needed. (It also had a good track record of job placement on graduation) Before my mission I was a socially awkward nerd... a mission knocked a lot of the rough edges off but I still figured it would take me a few years of dating before I found a wife. Which meant that if I dated during school the time should be just about right. I liked the plan. I thought it had everything covered. So I locked it down and went to work. I met the future sister estradling75 about three months after getting home from my mission. I had barely gotten started on my plan. Due to her personal status she quickly got confirmation that I was the one for her. She did not tell me this, but things got intense between us fast any ways. She totally messed up my plan. I fought against it. The fight drove me to my knees. I tried to deny her and send her away, she was wiser then me and held on anyways. When I couldn't deny, I tried to delay. I knew I was no where near ready. So I tried to say sure its her and we can do something about it in a couple of years when I am ready. (In retrospect not a wise idea and I am not surprised now that it was shutdown). I wanted the Lord to give me the answer I wanted to hear. So I fought against everything else. I mean, I thought I was doing the right thing, following the councils being prepared and all that. In end the Lord pretty much impressed upon my mind that I had a choice. I could accept what he had planned for me or I could try doing it my way if I really really really wanted to. I would like to think that I am not totally stupid. I got the message finally. I knew that I still wasn't ready, but well, I needed to push forward anyways. We got married, and there was no miracle that suddenly made the finances work.. We lived with my mother-in-law (and yes it was that bad), but in the bad moments I knew I was exactly where the Lord wanted me to be and that was enough. My plan continued to roll on and with big exception of getting married early it pretty much went flawlessly. I got a job, the money got better, and we moved into our own home. So I think it is very clear that I am a big fan of being ready... But we should not be so locked in to being ready that we miss the times the Lord tells us we need to take a Leap of Faith. In my case it was in the timing of getting married, for other it might be the timing of having kids. For others when it comes it might have nothing to do with their family but be on a totally different subject. Of course being ready to take that Leap does not mean we just jump out whenever we feel like it. But only when the Lord Guides us to that point. It is rare that a post touches me spiritually as this did. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I still haven't seen a clear answer on this: Are we saying one must be in one's life career before getting married, or just have a reasonable grip on finances and support? One has nothing to do with the other is my answer. One has to figure out one's life career and have a grip on finances and support, married or not. See my post about 1 single person versus a married couple above to get more explanation of why I say this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 What I am saying is (taking the running water example): IF you do not have running water and you could change that situation by waiting a bit while you can fix your situation, why the rush of getting married?. It is selfish IMO and foolish to pursue marriage and hope that your spouse and children would have to live under those circumstances just because you was desperate to tie the knot instead of waiting a little while. It is wrong, IMO. Getting married is not a race. Suzie... there's several flaws in this logic as follows: #1. The person without running water is somehow going to put the other that has running water out of his/her running water or become an unsufferable burden.#2. The couple wanted to get married because they are desperate to tie the knot for no apparent reason than just... tying the knot in a head-to-head race against - I have no idea who the race is with... Fact #1: There are 2 people in a marriage. Support does not come from one person alone that has the responsibility and with the other a completely useless dependent. And it especially doesn't come specifically only from the person without running water. Marriage is a partnership.Fact #2: Eternal Marriage happens because both people decide to live the rest of mortality AND eternity supporting each other. It doesn't happen because one wants a comfortable life (if that's the reason they're getting married, running water is not going to save that marriage).Fact #3: Getting married and having children are 2 separate events with 2 separate decisions.Fact #4: Not getting married is not going to magically make your life easier and give you running water. But, getting married to a person with running water could get both of you a share of running water... And the person with running water doesn't get into the marriage and start suffering because he only gets half the water... there would be other reasons why he is willing to share his water. And finally, if both of them don't have running water, getting married or not is not going to make that situation any easier... because... achieving running water is not harder in a partnership than it is as a single person. If it is harder as a partnership, then something is wrong with the partnership - and it's not the absence of running water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I still haven't seen a clear answer on this: Are we saying one must be in one's life career before getting married, or just have a reasonable grip on finances and support? If you want a clear answer from us, good luck. We obviously do not all agree. If you want a clear answer from the church's perspective... lds.org Get to reading: :) https://www.lds.org/search?q=putting+off+marriage&domains=all〈=enghttps://www.lds.org/search?q=waiting+for+marriage&domains=all〈=enghttps://www.lds.org/search?q=delaying+marriage&domains=all〈=enghttps://www.lds.org/search?q=importance+of+marriage&domains=all〈=enghttps://www.lds.org/search?q=marriage&domains=all〈=eng Contrary to what some have said, the church's position on this is not unclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 #2. The couple wanted to get married because they are desperate to tie the knot for no apparent reason than just... tying the knot in a head-to-head race against - I have no idea who the race is with... I believe, from a man's perspective, I know very well what the motivational race to get married might be. ;) That is to say, I know full well why I was desperate to tie the knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Fact #2: Getting married and having children are 2 separate events with 2 separate decisions. But they should not be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Anatess, If a person wants to marry it is because they love someone and they will try their best to provide for them. Granted, you never have "perfect" circumstances but basic needs, should be met. if you have do not have running water but you could change things by waiting a little bit, why can't you wait? Hormones? Naivety? What? I am really trying hard to understand why someone who is unable to meet basic needs cannot wait a bit until their situation improves in order to get married. I do not think the Church counsels that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 What I am saying is (taking the running water example): IF you do not have running water and you could change that situation by waiting a bit while you can fix your situation, why the rush of getting married?. It is selfish IMO and foolish to pursue marriage and hope that your spouse and children would have to live under those circumstances just because you was desperate to tie the knot instead of waiting a little while. It is wrong, IMO. Getting married is not a race. No, it's not a race. But to take your example literally, most people in the U.S., Canada, and western Europe don't have to wait for running water. So you're a starving student married couple in a little apartment eating peanut butter and ramen sandwiches. So what? I dare say it would do many couples a lot of good if they spent the first year or so or married life without too many niceties, having to struggle a bit and rely on each other and the Lord. The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 No, it's not a race. But to take your example literally, most people in the U.S., Canada, and western Europe don't have to wait for running water. So you're a starving student married couple in a little apartment eating peanut butter and ramen sandwiches. So what? That's fine by me. The running water is just an example. I have no problem with yours but when you do not have peanut butter sandwiches or ramen to eat, or money to pay your little apartment, then heck no. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 But they should not be. The decision to HAVE them may not be. But the decision on WHEN is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 eating peanut butter and ramen sandwiches. I don't think I like that combo. mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Anatess, If a person wants to marry it is because they love someone and they will try their best to provide for them. Granted, you never have "perfect" circumstances but basic needs, should be met. if you have do not have running water but you could change things by waiting a little bit, why can't you wait? Hormones? Naivety? What? I am really trying hard to understand why someone who is unable to meet basic needs cannot wait a bit until their situation improves in order to get married. I do not think the Church counsels that. Provide for them... 2 people here. 2 people providing for each other. Better than 1 person providing for himself alone. Give me a reason how a single person becomes inelligible for running water just because he decided to get married. When one is not able to meet his/her basic needs, he/she is not ready for marriage. Not because he/she can't provide for a family, but because he/she needs to learn to be responsible first before signing an eternal covenant. But, if he/she has learned responsibility and has all the traits to find the way to provide for a family and he/she found that eternal companion, there is no reason why the eternal companionship has to be postponed when both of them can support each other while they go through life's struggles. You know, I am suspecting something here... Let me see if I get this right... Okay, Apple... I think in your head you are thinking the MAN has no running water. Are you going to give the exact same advice if the MAN has running water but the WOMAN doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I believe, from a man's perspective, I know very well what the motivational race to get married might be. ;) That is to say, I know full well why I was desperate to tie the knot. It is for both men and women, that's why I mentioned hormones. But geez. Let's think with our brains a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Provide for them... 2 people here. 2 people providing for each other. Better than 1 person providing for himself alone. Give me a reason how a single person becomes inelligible for running water just because he decided to get married. I am confused now. The running water is just an example Anatess. I am saying if you cannot meet the basic needs of a family (and we already defined what those basic needs are) then you should be thinking about how to do so before you get married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I don't think I like that combo. I was hoping someone would catch on to my phrasing there. I smiled as I typed that meal. It seemed the epitome of cheap food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Is it me or we all agree somehow? but then we don't. The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I am confused now. The running water is just an example Anatess. I am saying if you cannot meet the basic needs of a family (and we already defined what those basic needs are) then you should be thinking about how to do so before you get married. Thinking and doing... You have to be thinking and doing - married or not. I don't know why you think that marriage somehow prevents you from thinking and doing. I don't know how things are different when you're married than when you're not in the process of meeting those basic needs. Now, if you're saying that basic needs is a sign of your emotional maturity for marriage... okay, I might take that. I don't agree, but I'll take it... if meeting basic needs is THE sign of emotional maturity for marriage then half the Philippines would not only be poor but poor and lonely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I was hoping someone would catch on to my phrasing there. I smiled as I typed that meal. It seemed the epitome of cheap food. Wait. I thought it was a typo. Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Is it me or we all agree somehow? but then we don't. I kind of want to ask everyone to rate themselves 1 through 10 on how prepared one should be before marriage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Thinking and doing... You have to be thinking and doing - married or not. I don't know why you think that marriage somehow prevents you from thinking and doing. Wait...let me ask you directly...to understand you better: Do you think it is okay for a couple who is unable to meet their basic needs to pursue marriage knowing their financial situation? (Not enough money to cover basic things such as food, shelter and clothing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I kind of want to ask everyone to rate themselves 1 through 10 on how prepared one should be before marriage... I have only 1 measure for preparedness... The strength of one's commitment to COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE SELFLESS SERVICE at 10. Both individuals getting married have to have this level of preparedness. Running water not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Oh yes we are. I lived for 2 years without running water, brown outs, spiders, cockroach city, boil all your water, etc., etc... And you know what? It was fine! I didn't actually need running water. Imagine that! Mission? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I believe, from a man's perspective, I know very well what the motivational race to get married might be. ;) That is to say, I know full well why I was desperate to tie the knot. TMI!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I kind of want to ask everyone to rate themselves 1 through 10 on how prepared one should be before marriage... I can't really answer this question without being a pretty solid hypocrite given my story.What I think is a good idea and what I really did has a large disconnect Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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