Thinking of divorce - help!

[Quichey]

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

The OP has stated she still doesn't feel she has done enough. With that statement by her I would advise she continue to work on the marriage until she feels she has done enough, and then to continue to work even more until she can't work on it any more. Divorce is always a last resort, and should always be considered as such.

see: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1993/01/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

You are not required to suffer into eternity just because you married someone who doesn't want to be married to you.

I agree with you.

[applepansy]

My husband and I have been married for over 2 years. I am 22 he is 27. We were engaged and married quite quickly and were sealed in the temple 2 months before our second anniversary. We have been apart 4 months during our first year of marriage. The relationship started on lies and WoW problems on his part, we married for the wrong reasons (sexual sin). Two weeks before our wedding we wanted to split but out parents had put so much into the wedding and we felt bad as my mum is quite poor. It was wrong from day 1 and he was distant since we got engaged. First year he never really wanted intimacy and I was all the more clingy, craving his affection. I began to think of my very loving ex boyfriend who was heart broken I moved away and married another man. I finally asked my husband the final time if he truly loved me...he replied no I don't think so. I moved back home the next day but I was too heart broken and needed to instantly be fixed so we got back together as he felt guilty about it. This happened a few more times until it stuck for a few months. When it came to what seemed like I would not see him again I freaked and we got back together. He wanted to as he doesn't need to be in love to be married and just doesn't want to bother with divorce, plus he wants to do his duties as a mormon priesthood holder. Bear in mind he never tried to win me back when I left. Anyways there was a couple more sin issues with WoW leading to loss of his drivers licence. Nothing since that. We pushed our issues aside and were fine for a while apart from me feeling depressed. I got over that mostly and we married in the temple. Now I can't cope with this distant and unloving nature anymore and am thinking about my ex again. He told me recently he doesn't love me as much as I love him and was depressed but then after seeing me cry so much he took it back. I want to divorce really but don't know if it's bad enough for that and I'm scared of the consequences. Any thoughts would be appreciated and feel free to ask questions I've definitely not covered everything!

I read a few posts and deliberately quit reading.

 

My husband and I have been married for 38 years.  There have been times when I/we considered divorce.  If we had gone that route we wouldn't be celebrating 38 years.  Has is all been happy? No.  Has it been worth it? YES! YES! YES!

 

1.  Marriage is about service.  Its not 50/50.  Its both giving 100%, 100% of the time.  It won't work out well unless you both serve each other.

 

2.  You can fix this marriage IF you want to.

     a.  Make the Savior a partner in your marriage.  That means praying TOGETHER as well as alone.  It also means being honest with each other in loving ways.  It also means neither of you get defensive.  Being defensive destroys trust.

     b.  Watch Fireproof (its on Netflix).

     c.  Watch Mark Gungor (on youtube).

     e.  Five Love Lanuages

     d.  Find a counselor who will be fair and hold both of you to your commitments.

 

3.  It takes both of you to make a marriage work.  But it only takes one to start the behaviors which will fix the marriage.

 

4.  Even people who start out not loving each other can have a successful marriage.  But they have to serve each other and do the hard work a successful marriage takes.  Its harder when you start without love but love can and will grow as you serve each other.

 

One last thing:  Nowhere in the church (scripture or otherwise) is divorce encouraged.  The only time divorce is appropriate is when abuse is involved.  That doesn't mean divorce doesn't happen, it does.  What it does mean is that we as LDS members should have a deeper commitment to making marriages successful, especially when we've been sealed in the temple.  You and your husband covenanted with Heavenly Father to be each other's spouse.  You didn't promise your husband and he didn't promise you.  YOU promised GOD!

 

I wish you the best and hope you both can make it work out.  You will received tremendous blessings if you can make it work.

 

P.S. Whatever you do, do not bring children into this marriage until its stable.

[Quichey]

I read a few posts and deliberately quit reading.

My husband and I have been married for 38 years. There have been times when I/we considered divorce. If we had gone that route we wouldn't be celebrating 38 years. Has is all been happy? No. Has it been worth it? YES! YES! YES!

1. Marriage is about service. Its not 50/50. Its both giving 100%, 100% of the time. It won't work out well unless you both serve each other.

2. You can fix this marriage IF you want to.

a. Make the Savior a partner in your marriage. That means praying TOGETHER as well as alone. It also means being honest with each other in loving ways. It also means neither of you get defensive. Being defensive destroys trust.

b. Watch Fireproof (its on Netflix).

c. Watch Mark Gungor (on youtube).

e. Five Love Lanuages

d. Find a counselor who will be fair and hold both of you to your commitments.

3. It takes both of you to make a marriage work. But it only takes one to start the behaviors which will fix the marriage.

4. Even people who start out not loving each other can have a successful marriage. But they have to serve each other and do the hard work a successful marriage takes. Its harder when you start without love but love can and will grow as you serve each other.

One last thing: Nowhere in the church (scripture or otherwise) is divorce encouraged. The only time divorce is appropriate is when abuse is involved. That doesn't mean divorce doesn't happen, it does. What it does mean is that we as LDS members should have a deeper commitment to making marriages successful, especially when we've been sealed in the temple. You and your husband covenanted with Heavenly Father to be each other's spouse. You didn't promise your husband and he didn't promise you. YOU promised GOD!

I wish you the best and hope you both can make it work out. You will received tremendous blessings if you can make it work.

P.S. Whatever you do, do not bring children into this marriage until its stable.

Bit more of a harsh truth knock on the head I suppose....but you are right. Sometimes I don't actually want to anymore but I made a commitment and I am going to find the energy to carry on.

[applepansy]

Bit more of a harsh truth knock on the head I suppose....but you are right. Sometimes I don't actually want to anymore but I made a commitment and I am going to find the energy to carry on.

I am sorry you considered it harsh.  It wasn't meant to be harsh.  

[Guest]

I am sorry you considered it harsh.  It wasn't meant to be harsh.  

 

It wasn't harsh.  It was the truth.  A lot of times, we don't want to face the truth because it hurts or it is too hard and we want to just be happy already... but, it's still the truth.

 

I've been married going on 17 years.  At least 7 of those 17 years my husband and I are fighting.  Big fights.  I remember the time a couple years into the marriage when he gets home he was either playing SOCOM on his PlayStation or watching Football on TV.  I married him knowing he is a super football fanatic.  So, I accepted that.  But, the PlayStation was just too much.  And he didn't listen to me asking him to quit it.  So, while he was at work, I took the PlayStation and all his games and threw it in the trash.  Just imagine the WAR that resulted in that!  What can I say, I was dumb and stupid and so was he...  There was a time when I put all his clothes in bags and threw it out the front door.  There was a time when I put all my clothes in bags and walked out the front door...  And there were the flying plates and glasses that I threw at his head.... Abusive?  Absolutely.  I was (and still am, unfortunately) an abuser!  I have a nasty anger management issue.  But guess what... we're still married.  With 2 children even.  And my husband and I work at it every single day.  Are we happy together?  Absolutely.  Just knowing that we can resolve flying plates and video game obsessions gives us a feeling of Freedom - the Freedom to make a royal mistake and still be able to crawl back to be forgiven.  And the good times are really really really good because we worked hard to get there.  We are partners and companions through thick and thin, sickness and health, stupidity and wisdom... and yes, I admit, my husband held the marriage together with a shoestring in our darkest days as I'm a royal idiot.  But we're over that now.  And I will always love him forever and ever and ever and ever just for hanging on with all his might to that shoestring... because, if there was anybody who is justified for divorcing out of his marriage, it's my husband!

[The Folk Prophet]

For what it's worth, I would, personally, only consider divorce if my wife was somehow seriously threatening to me or my children. And I mean SERIOUSLY.

 

I simply do not believe in divorce.

 

If she's going to murder me or the children, I'm outta there. Otherwise, relatively speaking, I'm hanging in.

[omegaseamaster75]

I read a few posts and deliberately quit reading.

 

My husband and I have been married for 38 years.  There have been times when I/we considered divorce.  If we had gone that route we wouldn't be celebrating 38 years.  Has is all been happy? No.  Has it been worth it? YES! YES! YES!

 

1.  Marriage is about service.  Its not 50/50.  Its both giving 100%, 100% of the time.  It won't work out well unless you both serve each other.

 

2.  You can fix this marriage IF you want to.

     a.  Make the Savior a partner in your marriage.  That means praying TOGETHER as well as alone.  It also means being honest with each other in loving ways.  It also means neither of you get defensive.  Being defensive destroys trust.

     b.  Watch Fireproof (its on Netflix).

     c.  Watch Mark Gungor (on youtube).

     e.  Five Love Lanuages

     d.  Find a counselor who will be fair and hold both of you to your commitments.

 

3.  It takes both of you to make a marriage work.  But it only takes one to start the behaviors which will fix the marriage.

 

4.  Even people who start out not loving each other can have a successful marriage.  But they have to serve each other and do the hard work a successful marriage takes.  Its harder when you start without love but love can and will grow as you serve each other.

 

One last thing:  Nowhere in the church (scripture or otherwise) is divorce encouraged.  The only time divorce is appropriate is when abuse is involved.  That doesn't mean divorce doesn't happen, it does.  What it does mean is that we as LDS members should have a deeper commitment to making marriages successful, especially when we've been sealed in the temple.  You and your husband covenanted with Heavenly Father to be each other's spouse.  You didn't promise your husband and he didn't promise you.  YOU promised GOD!

 

I wish you the best and hope you both can make it work out.  You will received tremendous blessings if you can make it work.

 

P.S. Whatever you do, do not bring children into this marriage until its stable.

Quantify abuse, is emotional abuse not as bad as physical abuse or worse? What if they had kids? would your opinion change at all?

[omegaseamaster75]

It wasn't harsh.  It was the truth.  A lot of times, we don't want to face the truth because it hurts or it is too hard and we want to just be happy already... but, it's still the truth.

 

I've been married going on 17 years.  At least 7 of those 17 years my husband and I are fighting.  Big fights.  I remember the time a couple years into the marriage when he gets home he was either playing SOCOM on his PlayStation or watching Football on TV.  I married him knowing he is a super football fanatic.  So, I accepted that.  But, the PlayStation was just too much.  And he didn't listen to me asking him to quit it.  So, while he was at work, I took the PlayStation and all his games and threw it in the trash.  Just imagine the WAR that resulted in that!  What can I say, I was dumb and stupid and so was he...  There was a time when I put all his clothes in bags and threw it out the front door.  There was a time when I put all my clothes in bags and walked out the front door...  And there were the flying plates and glasses that I threw at his head.... Abusive?  Absolutely.  I was (and still am, unfortunately) an abuser!  I have a nasty anger management issue.  But guess what... we're still married.  With 2 children even.  And my husband and I work at it every single day.  Are we happy together?  Absolutely.  Just knowing that we can resolve flying plates and video game obsessions gives us a feeling of Freedom - the Freedom to make a royal mistake and still be able to crawl back to be forgiven.  And the good times are really really really good because we worked hard to get there.  We are partners and companions through thick and thin, sickness and health, stupidity and wisdom... and yes, I admit, my husband held the marriage together with a shoestring in our darkest days as I'm a royal idiot.  But we're over that now.  And I will always love him forever and ever and ever and ever just for hanging on with all his might to that shoestring... because, if there was anybody who is justified for divorcing out of his marriage, it's my husband!

Your husband is a pillar of light and a long suffering example to all of us quitters.

[Guest]

Quantify abuse, is emotional abuse not as bad as physical abuse or worse? What if they had kids? would your opinion change at all?

 

I grew up in the Philippines - divorce is illegal - and a Catholic - no divorce there either... so my principles are born from those 2 foundations.  But, my husband who is an American, interestingly, hold the same views (otherwise, I wouldn't have married him).

 

My principle holds that Marriage is a covenant you make once.  It's the same thing as Baptism.  You get baptized once.  But, just like you can ask to remove your name from Church records and get re-baptized (or baptized to another Church), I don't think divorce, in itself, is an absolute can't do.

 

But, personally, I chose to make the marital covenant only once.

 

This is how I see it - I chose ONE person in this life to marry.  I need to be very careful with that choice because that person is the person that I chose to practice every single teaching Jesus Christ ever gave on Love.  Love encompasses the greatest commandments - they are so great as to make all other commandments fall under them - Love God, Love your Neighbor as Yourself.  My husband is the person I chose to pour all that practice on Love with from now until all eternity.

 

The Marriage Covenant - simply defined - is one's promise to bring him and his spouse and their children closer to the Godhead's perfect unity.

Now, the example that Jesus gave on Love  - knelt down to wash his apostles' feet, asked The Father to forgive us while getting hanged, etc - is the ideal that brings us closer to Unity.  Of course, I'm not Jesus, so I am very very very far from perfect.  But - that is my covenant - to Love my Husband under the Marriage Covenant.

 

So, in my understanding - there is NO reason for divorce unless you need LEGAL protection from your spouse.  Now, that doesn't mean that I can't separate (there's a difference between separation and divorce).  As far as Separation goes - the only reason I would separate is if I can get us both closer to Christ being apart than being together.

 

I'll give Abuse as an example.  While someone is in the presence of an abuser, it is VERY difficult to rise above it to just survive it, let alone being of a physiological and spiritual condition to bring yourself and your spouse closer to Christ.  More than likely, one will be in a better position both physiologically and spiritually to get the couple closer to Christ when separate from the spouse.  And then there's the children.  It might be that the person can protect him/herself from the abusive spouse and be able to rise above it to help the couple come closer to Christ... but the children might not survive it.  So, it might still be necessary to separate from the abuser.  BUT - just because we are separated does not mean that I am released from my covenant.  My covenant is forever - beyond death, even.  Therefore, being separated simply means that my work to bring us closer to Christ has to account for having separate geographic areas - it might be that the only thing I can do is pray and pray and pray and pray and nothing else... I would constantly and forever figure out how to get - not only me but also him - closer to Christ.

 

But that is separation... what about divorce?  Well, if the only way the family can protect themselves from the abuser is to get Legal protection from the abuser, then it becomes necessary to divorce.

 

But... what if I meet somebody who is a much better person than my husband?  Separation from my husband is not enough - I must get divorced so I can marry someone else!  Doesn't matter.  I made my covenant with my husband.  My happiness hinges on my service to my husband - not my husband's service to me... therefore, "a better person who can give me whatever", is not where my happiness lies.

 

 

 

Your husband is a pillar of light and a long suffering example to all of us quitters.

 

Amen to that... no, not about you being a quitter... about my husband as a pillar of light.

[applepansy]

Quantify abuse, is emotional abuse not as bad as physical abuse or worse? What if they had kids? would your opinion change at all?

Yes emotional abuse is just as bad or worse than physical abuse.

 

If there are already kids in this marriage then both parties need to double down on making it work.

 

Its better to repent than to destroy a family, especially one with children.

[applepansy]

.

 

[Quichey]

I grew up in the Philippines - divorce is illegal - and a Catholic - no divorce there either... so my principles are born from those 2 foundations. But, my husband who is an American, interestingly, hold the same views (otherwise, I wouldn't have married him).

My principle holds that Marriage is a covenant you make once. It's the same thing as Baptism. You get baptized once. But, just like you can ask to remove your name from Church records and get re-baptized (or baptized to another Church), I don't think divorce, in itself, is an absolute can't do.

But, personally, I chose to make the marital covenant only once.

This is how I see it - I chose ONE person in this life to marry. I need to be very careful with that choice because that person is the person that I chose to practice every single teaching Jesus Christ ever gave on Love. Love encompasses the greatest commandments - they are so great as to make all other commandments fall under them - Love God, Love your Neighbor as Yourself. My husband is the person I chose to pour all that practice on Love with from now until all eternity.

The Marriage Covenant - simply defined - is one's promise to bring him and his spouse and their children closer to the Godhead's perfect unity.

Now, the example that Jesus gave on Love - knelt down to wash his apostles' feet, asked The Father to forgive us while getting hanged, etc - is the ideal that brings us closer to Unity. Of course, I'm not Jesus, so I am very very very far from perfect. But - that is my covenant - to Love my Husband under the Marriage Covenant.

So, in my understanding - there is NO reason for divorce unless you need LEGAL protection from your spouse. Now, that doesn't mean that I can't separate (there's a difference between separation and divorce). As far as Separation goes - the only reason I would separate is if I can get us both closer to Christ being apart than being together.

I'll give Abuse as an example. While someone is in the presence of an abuser, it is VERY difficult to rise above it to just survive it, let alone being of a physiological and spiritual condition to bring yourself and your spouse closer to Christ. More than likely, one will be in a better position both physiologically and spiritually to get the couple closer to Christ when separate from the spouse. And then there's the children. It might be that the person can protect him/herself from the abusive spouse and be able to rise above it to help the couple come closer to Christ... but the children might not survive it. So, it might still be necessary to separate from the abuser. BUT - just because we are separated does not mean that I am released from my covenant. My covenant is forever - beyond death, even. Therefore, being separated simply means that my work to bring us closer to Christ has to account for having separate geographic areas - it might be that the only thing I can do is pray and pray and pray and pray and nothing else... I would constantly and forever figure out how to get - not only me but also him - closer to Christ.

But that is separation... what about divorce? Well, if the only way the family can protect themselves from the abuser is to get Legal protection from the abuser, then it becomes necessary to divorce.

But... what if I meet somebody who is a much better person than my husband? Separation from my husband is not enough - I must get divorced so I can marry someone else! Doesn't matter. I made my covenant with my husband. My happiness hinges on my service to my husband - not my husband's service to me... therefore, "a better person who can give me whatever", is not where my happiness lies.

But I didn't make a careful choice like you so isn't it possible that sometimes it's just not meant to last but rather teach you something? I know I shouldn't quit without feeling like I've done everything I can and without careful prayer but I don't intend on staying miserable my entire life just because my husband doesn't care very much to work on the marriage. I will find peace and happiness without him if divorce is needed and God is loving, knows my heart and will understand.

[Suzie]

Quichey, as you can see everyone has a different take about what would qualified for a divorce in their own personal lives. It does NOT have to apply to your life. Whatever decision you take, it has to be done with a lot of prayer and fasting, analyzing the situation and issues you deal with your husband, not someone else's husband or wife and their lives and what *they* went through and what *they* think it should be done and mostly and what *they* chose to do.

 

Everyone is different and even though, most of us here claim to be LDS, this is an online site and we are just a bunch of strangers. I am not saying to discard everything you have read here, but keep things into perspective...you do not know any of us, we are all just sharing personal opinions and experiences and if you choose to do something different, doesn't make you a bad or a horrible person because in the end, none of us are going to live your life and what might have been good for a couple, it does not have to be good for yours.

 

All the best!

[yjacket]

But I didn't make a careful choice like you so isn't it possible that sometimes it's just not meant to last but rather teach you something? I know I shouldn't quit without feeling like I've done everything I can and without careful prayer but I don't intend on staying miserable my entire life just because my husband doesn't care very much to work on the marriage. I will find peace and happiness without him if divorce is needed and God is loving, knows my heart and will understand.

 

Suzie makes some good points.

 

However, one can learn much from the experience of others.  I do have a word of caution, be careful of falling into the trap that a different marriage will make you happy.  True happiness comes from the inside, it doesn't come from others, it comes from within.  One can be in the most dire situations in life and still be happy, even extremely happy.

 

God is loving and He does know your heart and he does understand our situations, but how much are we willing to understand Him and His will?  What if it is His will for you to stay and work it out?  Are you willing to be obedient to His will?

 

Again, be very, very careful about deciding that being miserable is because of your marriage.

 

I have a few other recommendations:

 

http://americanvalues.org/catalog/pdfs/does_divorce_make_people_happy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Love-You-Want-Anniversary/dp/0805087001 -- this one is awesome, it is great for learning about yourself and understanding yourself.

[Guest]

But I didn't make a careful choice like you so isn't it possible that sometimes it's just not meant to last but rather teach you something? I know I shouldn't quit without feeling like I've done everything I can and without careful prayer but I don't intend on staying miserable my entire life just because my husband doesn't care very much to work on the marriage. I will find peace and happiness without him if divorce is needed and God is loving, knows my heart and will understand.

Sure... every experience and every choice teaches us something. My principles are for me and it is a by-product of everything I learned - it would be different for someone else...

But, there is one lesson here that is universal - it is an important teaching of Christ. UNTIL the time comes that you learn to be happy in service to another without expecting anything in return, you will have a difficult time finding lasting joy.

So that, you can divorce your husband and get a chance at happiness. But if your idea of happiness is a result of something you receive instead of something you give, your happiness will not be long-lasting.

[spamlds]

This is way too personal of an issue to bring up on a public forum like this.  None of us are qualified to give you advice.  I wrote earlier today in the LDS.net forum to a guy who urged investigators to seek truth by reading C.S. Lewis.  The advice I gave to this fellow was to ask of God, as Joseph Smith did after reading James 1:5-6.

 

Have you asked God what he wants you to do?  Have you received an answer?  Have you accepted God's answer?  That's all that really matters.

 

You made some mistakes.  From what you said, your relationship was built upon physical attraction to start with.  That's a weak foundation.  Time and age will diminish our physical attractiveness, thus any relationship built upon that is doomed from the start.  A lifelong relationship is going to endure discomforts, financial stresses, illness, getting fat, going bald, pregnancies, you name it!  Enduring love has to be built on something permanent.  You can build a marriage upon the gospel of Christ.

 

Of course, it will take both you and your husband to decide how to move forward--and that's none of our business.  If there's a way to heal your marriage, it's by basing it on the gospel.  You chose him and he chose you.  It is possible to save the marriage if that's what you want.  

 

You might find some help reading this article from Elder Oaks at a 2007 conference session.  Best wishes to you.

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/divorce?lang=eng

[Urstadt]

Can you people who are debating over scripture, suffering, divorce, commitment, etc, and demanding references and criticizing one another's advice please take it to another thread or private message each other? Thank you.