andrewc Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but:We are sons and daughters of God.So, we are brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.Is the Holy Ghost a brother with Jesus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Herewith are Vort's Two Rules for Understanding Any Discussion about the Nature of the Holy Ghost:Anyone who claims to know about the nature of the Holy Ghost, and wants to tell you about it, almost certainly doesn't and should be ignored. Anyone who actually knows anything about the nature of the Holy Ghost almost certainly will not tell you.In my experience, these two rules cover approximately 100.0% of the discussion you will ever hear about the nature of the Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest intra Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 if we are by one Spirit brought into one body, is that singular Spirit any other than the Spirit of the head of the body itself? i think the question you are asking is similar to "is my soul the brother of my body?"you are one entity, whether you are known by your mind, your soul or your flesh, not many people, or a self-contained family. andrewc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 1. We are the spirit children of God the Father2. We are not spirit children of God the Son Conclusion: The Godhead can have persons in it who are not our Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 2. We are not spirit children of God the Son And yet...per scripture...we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 if we are by one Spirit brought into one body, is that singular Spirit any other than the Spirit of the head of the body itself? i think the question you are asking is similar to "is my soul the brother of my body?"you are one entity, whether you are known by your mind, your soul or your flesh, not many people, or a self-contained family. This is a great reply, but if the Holy Ghost is a separate personage how is He also also the Spirit of God and the Son? To me that sounds more like the Trinitarian concept of the Godhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Herewith are Vort's Two Rules for Understanding Any Discussion about the Nature of the Holy Ghost:Anyone who claims to know about the nature of the Holy Ghost, and wants to tell you about it, almost certainly doesn't and should be ignored. Anyone who actually knows anything about the nature of the Holy Ghost almost certainly will not tell you.In my experience, these two rules cover approximately 100.0% of the discussion you will ever hear about the nature of the Holy Ghost. Do you mean that it is a concept that can be known the spiritually advanced and not really explained or defined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Do you mean that it is a concept that can be known the spiritually advanced and not really explained or defined? I know I'm replying to your reply to Vort...but...my thought: I don't see it that way. What God want us to know about the Holy Ghost He has revealed and is plain and easy to understand. What He does not want us to know, He does not want us to know, and there are probably few exceptions to this. There may be some select cases where someone with enough faith and righteousness has enlightenment on the matter beyond what God has given to the general. But in those cases, that revelation is for that specific person, and they would not share it with the masses, and would likely be commanded not to share it with the masses. I believe (he can correct me if I'm wrong) that is Vort's point. As far as the answer to your question, it is unknowable. Only those who have said information revealed to them would know if it is explainable or not. The rest of us are guessing. Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Thanks for the help. On most things LDS doctrine seems clearer to me than abstract/philosophical Catholic conceptions, though on this point I guess we have to decide this relationship is mysterious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Do you mean that it is a concept that can be known the spiritually advanced and not really explained or defined? No, I think it can be explained or defined just fine. I actually believe that there are many people (not as a percentage of the Church, but probably hundreds or thousands) who have had this "mystery" revealed to them. Were they authorized to do so and were you in a spiritual state to receive their teachings, they could explain to you in a few dozen words exactly what you are asking. But that knowledge is not given publicly; it is reserved for personal revelation to those who qualify themselves to receive it. Those of us who have not asked (or who are insufficiently prepared to receive an answer) are given the sweet milk of the gospel to help us grow and get strong. This is true in any area of the gospel, and no less true in this one. I have seen many discussions online (and at Church) on the nature of the Holy Ghost. In approximately 0% of these discussions have I witnessed great learning or insight taking place. Typically, they degenerate into speculation about the "assignment" of such "duties" to dead prophets or female deities or the last in line or some such. I confess that I find such speculation to be tiresome and more than a little embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't understand though, why is it secret knowledge? Is it harmful to share? In general, LDS doctrine seems clear, open, and simple to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't understand though, why is it secret knowledge? Is it harmful to share? In general, LDS doctrine seems clear, open, and simple to understand. The great, vast bulk of knowledge is "secret knowledge". Of all knowable things, we have possession of only the tiniest fraction. God's policy is well-publicized: Ask and ye shall receive. But you have to ask, and as James taught, "ask in faith". And part of asking in faith is preparing yourself to understand the answer and live according to it. Otherwise, you ask for things you cannot understand, and if/when you are given those things, they weaken or even destroy you -- because you are unable to understand them. God hides knowledge from us for our benefit, not to play mean-spirited games with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't understand though, why is it secret knowledge? Is it harmful to share? In general, LDS doctrine seems clear, open, and simple to understand.nothing secret. The fact is that no one knows. From Mormon Doctrine (Bruce R McConkie): "Because he is a Spirit Personage, he has power - according to the eternal laws ordained by the Father - to perform essential and unique functions for men. In this dispensation at least, nothing has been revealed as to his origin or destiny; expressions on these matters are both speculative and fruitless." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 The fact is that no one knows. How can you possibly know that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 How can you possibly know that?How can you possibly know that they do? You prove the positive, and I'll prove the negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 How can you possibly know that they do? You prove the positive, and I'll prove the negative. What a useful response. If you're going to make a statement that begins with "the fact is", perhaps you should be able to actually back it up as a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 (edited) As far as the answer to your question, it is unknowable. Only those who have said information revealed to them would know if it is explainable or not. The rest of us are guessing.......... Fact: No one who posts on this thread will have any knowledge, or share further knowledge other than what has been previously discussed about the Holy Ghost. Edited December 8, 2014 by mdfxdb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 Fact: No one who posts on this thread will have any knowledge, Perhaps... or share further knowledge other than what has been previously discussed about the Holy Ghost. Probably true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Thank you for the quote from Bruce McConkie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate everyone knows this.... That seems to contradict the idea of the Holy Ghost being a personage of spirit only. It seems to make more sense to say that Joseph Smith was filled with the Holy Ghost (more than most people?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I assume omegaseamaster was trying to be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 My attempt at humor went unnoticed except by Vort.... Here is a link: http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Office_of_the_Holy_Ghost some fun reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewc Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I'm not LDS and don't really get the in-group humor. I thought maybe some people still believed that, though it was heresy or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finrock Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 The Lectures on Faith are a good place to start in gaining an understanding on the nature of the Spirit of God and as to the nature of the Godhead in general. I think for the most part we (members of the Church in general) don't understand this correctly. I do not completely understand the nature of the Spirit of God, but I do know that what I think I know or what I thought I knew, is/was wrong. I'm more prone these days to take God at His word than I am in trying to fit his words in to my Mormon worldview. The Spirit of God, to me, means exactly that. It is God's spirit. -Finrock Please correct me if I'm wrong, but:We are sons and daughters of God.So, we are brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.Is the Holy Ghost a brother with Jesus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Lectures on Faith are not considered doctrine/modern scripture. The Lectures were included as the "doctrine" portion of the 1835 Doctrine and Covenants, They were removed from the 1921 edition with other items; that were not considered official revelation and binding doctrine by the church. I would definitely not start there in my research fro insight on LDS beliefs about the Holy Ghost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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