Why Is Alcohol Forbidden When Wine Is Recommended To Timothy In The Nt

[Guest Yediyd]

Well, we are taught to listen to our priesthood leaders and my Bishop made me skip the sacrament one week last year when I told him about the two cups of coffee I drank...He didn't take away my Temple recommend...but I did have to repent....that's good enough for me...I feel bad, but I have sworn off coffee...boo hoo!!!

my comments are in response to Snow...Six beat me to the post!!!

[prisonchaplain]

Yep, when I got baptised, I gave up coffee,tea, AND me!!!

...J/k...

This issue here may indeed be the one that most significantly differentiates LDS from the evangelical world.

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

Yep, when I got baptised, I gave up coffee,tea, AND me!!!

...J/k...

This issue here may indeed be the one that most significantly differentiates LDS from the evangelical world.

[Snow]

Well, we are taught to listen to our priesthood leaders and my Bishop made me skip the sacrament one week last year when I told him about the two cups of coffee I drank...He didn't take away my Temple recommend...but I did have to repent....that's good enough for me...I feel bad, but I have sworn off coffee...boo hoo!!!

my comments are in response to Snow...Six beat me to the post!!!

I didn't say that anyone shouldn't follow the WoW and in fact have post extensively in the past that all the Church should follow all of the WoW. I'm just pointing out that there is no known revelation making the WoW a commandment of prohibition instead of advice.

[CrimsonKairos]

Perhaps not a canonized revelation (such as the repeal of the priesthood ban), but I personally believe there was more to the move from moderation to abstinence than the first presidency sitting around, chewing the fat on the fourth floor of the temple and deciding, "Meh, why not make the WoW about abstinence?" B)

[Greenroom]

There are no covenants made in the temple to keep the word of wisdom. Why?

[Aphrodite]

My Dad seems to think the WOW is sort of the least way you can sin. He keeps it fully however. Im not well at the moment, and I had a dream last night that I was sitting in sacrament meeting wih a bottle of wine on the floor, and a wine glass and I was pouring myself glass after glass and sitting there supping it during the talks!!!!!!! Maybe it is for medicinal purposes lol

[Gabelma]

There are no covenants made in the temple to keep the word of wisdom. Why?

we covenant at baptism to be obedient to the Lord. Surely keeping the commandments comes under that?

Charley

[Adomini22]

That makes me think. I am not so sure why.

[Snow]

Perhaps not a canonized revelation (such as the repeal of the priesthood ban), but I personally believe there was more to the move from moderation to abstinence than the first presidency sitting around, chewing the fat on the fourth floor of the temple and deciding, "Meh, why not make the WoW about abstinence?" B)

One would hope but that's not to say that everything that the Brethren put forth is something that comes directly from God because that is clearly not the case.

I am merely pointing out that JS, who spoke with God on the matter, understood it as advice. No one else has ever claimed, to my knowledge, to have spoken with God further and received further clarification.

[CrimsonKairos]

Then again, God hasn't intervened and said, "No, no, no, it's only about moderation, not abstinence!"

But I see your point Snow. And I don't think everything from the Brethren is platinum-set-in-stone-the-only-way-it-is...by that I mean talks and whatnot.

[Guest Yediyd]

Then again, God hasn't intervened and said, "No, no, no, it's only about moderation, not abstinence!"

But I see your point Snow. And I don't think everything from the Brethren is platinum-set-in-stone-the-only-way-it-is...by that I mean talks and whatnot.

I agree with both you AND Snow on this point, but as long as my current Bishop believes that it is interpreted as abstinence and my Temple recommend is in jeopardy if I don't follow his counsel...I will abstain...not because I want to, I still love coffee...but because I choose to be obedient.

I probably shouldn't reveal this here, but I am a very open and honest person...so why not? Love me or hate me...I am REAL...

... I struggle with same sex attraction...have since my 20's. I have never acted on those thoughts and feelings because I don't believe that I am gay. I believe I have these feelings because of the abuse that I suffered at the hands of the men in my life who were supposed to protect me. Now, as a single mother and wife who has been hurt tremendously by her unfaithful husband...I am again struggling with these feelings.

I will not act on them because I know they are wrong and a lie from Satan. I went to my Bishop and told him about it. He set up counselling for me with our Stake president (He is a marriage and family therapist)

The point is...I CHOOSE to be obedient...I CHOOSE to deny my flesh, I want to live a CELESTIAL law and I LOVE this church...if that means no coffee for the rest of my life, then so be it...

...I'll cope...somehow!

As far as the other thing...I know where that is coming from and I will not give in to the lies of Satan...I know G-d has a faithful priesthood holder out there for me...I just need to trust him and wait for G-d's timing. My patriarchal blessing told me that as long as I stay faithful, I WILL have the RIGHTIOUS desires of my heart.

[sixpacktr]

There are no covenants made in the temple to keep the word of wisdom. Why?

There are also no covenants that expressly state we shouldn't kill either. Or that we should do our home teaching. Just because it isn't in the temple ceremony doesn't mean anything.

The WOW is not open to interpretation as to whether a little tea is okay, or if I drink alcohol only every once in a while it is okay. The standard is if we keep it.

Why this quibbling over this: to see how much you can get away with?? Yed has the right attitude: why take the chance? Is it so danged important that you be able to drink some wine that you are willing to jeopardize your temple recommend?

Reminds me of a story of a woman that just couldn't stop drinking her coffee. In her interview with her Bishop for a recommend, she said, "well, I just don't think that the Lord will keep me out of the CK because I drink a little coffee!" And her Bishop replied, "probably not for the coffee, but because of your lack of obedience to his commandments."

Wanting to be obedient is the key, not seeing what you can get away with!

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

There are no covenants made in the temple to keep the word of wisdom. Why?

There are also no covenants that expressly state we shouldn't kill either. Or that we should do our home teaching. Just because it isn't in the temple ceremony doesn't mean anything.

The WOW is not open to interpretation as to whether a little tea is okay, or if I drink alcohol only every once in a while it is okay. The standard is if we keep it.

Why this quibbling over this: to see how much you can get away with?? Yed has the right attitude: why take the chance? Is it so danged important that you be able to drink some wine that you are willing to jeopardize your temple recommend?

Reminds me of a story of a woman that just couldn't stop drinking her coffee. In her interview with her Bishop for a recommend, she said, "well, I just don't think that the Lord will keep me out of the CK because I drink a little coffee!" And her Bishop replied, "probably not for the coffee, but because of your lack of obedience to his commandments."

Wanting to be obedient is the key, not seeing what you can get away with! Here! Here!

[Iggy]

Reminds me of a story of a woman that just couldn't stop drinking her coffee. In her interview with her Bishop for a recommend, she said, "well, I just don't think that the Lord will keep me out of the CK because I drink a little coffee!" And her Bishop replied, "probably not for the coffee, but because of your lack of obedience to his commandments."

Wanting to be obedient is the key, not seeing what you can get away with!

Absolutely!

[rulds2084]

I always wondered about Genesis 9:20-27. This is where Noah plants a vineyard and gets drunk off the wine and passes out naked, but the confusing thing is that his sons are cursed for covering him up. Anyone know anything about this?

[CrimsonKairos]

I don't recall his sons being cursed for covering him up.

In fact, Ham was cursed because he uncovered Noah's nakedness, whether you take that to mean he literally removed some clothing from Noah, or that Ham discovered his naked father by walking into his tent.

Some traditions have Ham taking Noah's priesthood garments in a misguided bid for power.

[rulds2084]

still though what about the fact that noah was drunk from the wine in the vineyard. Shouldn't that not be in the bible. It doesn't make a good role model figure I don't think

[CrimsonKairos]

Nope, getting drunk is not good.

Noah wasn't perfect. But then, show me one prophet who was.

[Guest Yediyd]

I always interpreted that passage to mean that Ham not only saw his naked father, but he took advantage of him as well...the other two son's did not see the nakedness of their father because they went in backwards and covered the nakedness of their father.

Also, this passage is a comfort to me. When I hear of the imperfect things that JS did and antis love to spout about...I can look in the Bible and see that the prophets are men, Not gods...and imperfect but still prophets of G-d

[Dr T]

If they make a prophecy that does not come true thought, that makes them a false prophet. Anyone have the reference for that?

[Guest Yediyd]

If they make a prophecy that does not come true thought, that makes them a false prophet. Anyone have the reference for that?

What is your point, T?

[Dr T]

The point is simple Yed. "If they make a prophecy that does not come true-they are false prophets." Simple.

[Maureen]

still though what about the fact that noah was drunk from the wine in the vineyard. Shouldn't that not be in the bible. It doesn't make a good role model figure I don't think

Wow, you haven't read much of the Bible have you? A lot of terrible things are written about in the Bible, far worse than getting drunk.

Take Dinah, a daughter of Jacob. She is raped and her brothers are so outraged they devise a plan of revenge.

Now find that Bible of yours and start reading. :)

M.

[Guest Yediyd]

<div class='quotemain'>

still though what about the fact that noah was drunk from the wine in the vineyard. Shouldn't that not be in the bible. It doesn't make a good role model figure I don't think

Wow, you haven't read much of the Bible have you? A lot of terrible things are written about in the Bible, far worse than getting drunk.

Take Dinah, a daughter of Jacob. She is raped and her brothers are so outraged they devise a plan of revenge.

Now find that Bible of yours and start reading. :)

M.

Yeah, they dupe a whole group of men to get circumcised and while they are still sore from it, they slaughter them!!! Ouch! And the guy that raped Dinah, really loved her...he wanted to marry her!!!

Or how about the place in Judges where two women get into a fight because they agreed to eat each others sons...when they ate one of them, the other mother refused to share her son...so the mother who's son they DID eat went to the judge for restitution because the other mother wouldn't let her eat her son!!!! That was during a famine that was so bad that people were paying MONEY for pigeon dung!!!! Read the book of judges!!! There is even a story in there about a talking donkey!!!