Why Is Alcohol Forbidden When Wine Is Recommended To Timothy In The Nt

[Elphaba]

Sorry, this is a long post...

. . . .

"...In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation."

Dr. Steuss,

I've always loved your excellent posts that give us such an enlightening look into the past. You're going to be a great asset to the board.

Bravo.

Elphaba

[CrimsonKairos]

They didn't know how bad that asbestos could be to us.

Actually, they did find out about its harmful effects and still left it in the filters until the public found out about it.

Check out the documentary called "A Safe Cigarette" on pbs.org.

[Guest bizabra]

Biblical wine was basically apple juice or grape juice. If there was any alchohol it wasnt on purpose.

BIZ: Thanks for the giant laugh, dude! No alcohol, LOL!!!!!!!!

[Doctor Steuss]

The point is simple Yed. "If they make a prophecy that does not come true-they are false prophets." Simple.

I know that several already commented on this (so please forgive me for beating a dead horse here my fellow doctor).

But, a few examples that illustrate the conditional nature of prophecy (taken from The Nature of Prophets and Prophecy by John A. Tvedtnes)...

• The Lord told David that the men of Keilah "will deliver thee up [to Saul]" (1 Samuel 23:12). This did not happen, however, because David fled from the city (verses 13-14). • Isaiah told king Hezekiah, "Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live." (2 Kings 20:1) But after the king pleaded with the Lord, the prophet delivered a new message, saying that fifteen years would be added to his life (verses 2-6). • The Lord told Moses that he would destroy the Israelites and make of Moses a greater nation than they. When Moses protested that this would be wrong, the Lord changed his mind (Numbers 14:11-20). • The Lord said through Elisha that the combined armies of Israel, Judah and Edom would "smite every fenced city" of Moab and that he would "deliver the Moabites also into your hand." But one city, Kir-hareseth, was not taken. When Mesha, the Moabite king, sacrificed his son on the city wall, the Israelites left and went home. The prophecy was not fulfilled because the Israelites would not cooperate with the Lord's wishes. • Through Ezekiel, the Lord declared that the Lebanese city of Tyre would be destroyed by the Babylonian king Nebuchadrezzar, never to be rebuilt (Ezekiel 26, especially verses 4, 7, 12, 14). Though Nebuchadrezzar laid siege against Tyre from 598 to 586 B.C., he was never able to take the city. The Lord then told Ezekiel that, in compensation for his not taking Tyre, Nebuchadrezzar would be given the land of Egypt, (Ezekiel 29:17-10). Its people would be slain and its rivers dry up (Ezekiel 30:10-12; 32:11-15) and the land of Egypt would remain uninhabited for forty years (Ezekiel 29:11-13). But though Nebuchadrezzar defeated an Egyptian army in battle, he never conquered Egypt either. • Isaiah, in his prophesy against Babylon (Isaiah 13:1), declared that the Medes would slay men, women and children and that Babylon would "be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation" (Isaiah 13:17-20). In 539 B.C., Cyrus, king of the Medes and Persians, took Babylon without bloodshed, and made it one of the principal cities of his empire. Babylon remained inhabited for centuries afterward.

Of the above, I think the Ezekiel example is the best. There is also one that Mr. Tvedtnes left off this little list, and that is of Jonah.

Jonah prophecies that Nineveh will be overthrown in "forty days" (Jonah 3:4). There is no condition in this prophecy (i.e. it isn't "Unless you do ______", it’s simply “you’re gonna die”). However, the people of Nineveh repent, and G-d changes His mind (Jonah 3:10). And then as we move into Jonah chapter 4, we find Jonah getting upset with G-d because of this (verses 1-3).

There are several reasons why a prophecy might not have been fulfilled (i.e. timeframe, contingency, agency, etc.), and it is important that we try to not reject G-d's prophets because of what we ourselves may perceive as a "failed prophecy."

---------------

Edited to add:

In regards to the OP, read Ecclesiastes chapter 3.

[Guest Yediyd]

Thank you Dr. S excellent post!!!

[Dr T]

Dr. S,

I just saw your post to me. I've been missing a lot of threads. I'll take a look at those verses as time permits. Thank you for those.

[Lord Vidoran]

The afternoon of Joseph's murder, shortly after 4:00 p.m., Joseph, his brother Hyrum, John Taylor and Willard Richards shared some wine with their guards. Then they were attacked by the mob, and Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.

Elphaba

Actually, I would steer you towards experimenting with alcohol. I'm sure Jesus won't mind too much. Futhermore, I'm sure you don't follow every little piece of your religious doctrine.

Way back when, when I was still a practicing catholic, I only adhered to about 50% of the catholic doctrine.

There's my two cents. Glad to contribute.

[Adomini22]

<div class='quotemain'>

The afternoon of Joseph's murder, shortly after 4:00 p.m., Joseph, his brother Hyrum, John Taylor and Willard Richards shared some wine with their guards. Then they were attacked by the mob, and Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.

Elphaba

Actually, I would steer you towards experimenting with alcohol. I'm sure Jesus won't mind too much. Futhermore, I'm sure you don't follow every little piece of your religious doctrine.

Way back when, when I was still a practicing catholic, I only adhered to about 50% of the catholic doctrine.

There's my two cents. Glad to contribute.

Um, ok. I guess that whole principle that talks of something like believing with your whole heart doesnt apply to you much, huh buddy? For my two cents, alchohol is disgusting and I hear its an aquired (spelling?) taste like cigarettes. It certainly doesnt make you much healthier.

[Elphaba]

<div class='quotemain'>

The afternoon of Joseph's murder, shortly after 4:00 p.m., Joseph, his brother Hyrum, John Taylor and Willard Richards shared some wine with their guards. Then they were attacked by the mob, and Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.

Elphaba

Actually, I would steer you towards experimenting with alcohol. I'm sure Jesus won't mind too much. Futhermore, I'm sure you don't follow every little piece of your religious doctrine.

Way back when, when I was still a practicing catholic, I only adhered to about 50% of the catholic doctrine.

There's my two cents. Glad to contribute.

Why would you do that? I'm an adult, and if I want to drink alcohol I will. If I don't, I won't. What business is it of yours?

Elphaba

[Adomini22]

he he he he. Dont let him get under your skin Elph. Just laugh as we all tend to do in moments like these....HA HA HA

[Elphaba]

he he he he. Dont let him get under your skin Elph. Just laugh as we all tend to do in moments like these....HA HA HA

I am Ad. I was very puffed up like Shirley Temple when I wrote that.

Elphie

[Maureen]

Um, ok. I guess that whole principle that talks of something like believing with your whole heart doesnt apply to you much, huh buddy? For my two cents, alchohol is disgusting and I hear its an aquired (spelling?) taste like cigarettes. It certainly doesnt make you much healthier.

I will disagree on the argument that alcohol has no benefits whatsoever. Here's some information regarding health benefits of alcohol...the key phrase is moderate drinking.

Possible Health Benefits of Alcohol

Cardiovascular Disease

More than 100 prospective studies show an inverse association between moderate drinking and risk of heart attack, ischemic (clot-caused) stroke, peripheral vascular disease, sudden cardiac death, and death from all cardiovascular causes.(4) The effect is fairly consistent, corresponding to a 25-40% reduction in risk. Results of some of the largest of these are summarized in Table 1. The connection between moderate drinking and lower risk of cardiovascular disease has been observed in men and women. It applies to people who do not apparently have heart disease. It also applies to those at high risk for having a heart attack or stroke or dying of cardiovascular disease - people with type 2 diabetes (5) and those with high blood pressure, angina (chest pain), a prior heart attack, or other forms of cardiovascular disease.(5-8)

The idea that moderate drinking protects against cardiovascular disease is biologically and scientifically plausible. Moderate amounts of alcohol raise levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or "good" cholesterol),(6) and higher HDL levels are associated with greater protection against heart disease. Moderate alcohol consumption has also been linked with beneficial changes in a variety of factors that influence blood clotting, such as tissue type plasminogen activator, fibrinogen, clotting factor VII, and von Willebrand factor.(6) Such changes would tend to prevent the formation of small blood clots that can block arteries in the heart, neck, and brain, the ultimate cause of many heart attacks and the most common kind of stroke.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol.html

M.

[CrimsonKairos]

When combined with weight-lifting, use of certain steroids can dramatically increase muscle mass and decrease body fat.

Oh yeah, and long-term use can cause heart-attacks and other fatal conditions.

I guess if wine has one good effect, we should just ignore the negative things it does to the body.

And no, Maureen, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to scour the web for hyperlinks documenting the ill effects wine has on the body. B)

[Adomini22]

Well, moderate drinking is moderate. So Maureen is actually right on that point. But long term? I dont think it is a big plus. I mean, ............... well, we all know the effects of it if it gets out of hand.

[Maureen]

When combined with weight-lifting, use of certain steroids can dramatically increase muscle mass and decrease body fat.

Oh yeah, and long-term use can cause heart-attacks and other fatal conditions.

I guess if wine has one good effect, we should just ignore the negative things it does to the body.

And no, Maureen, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to scour the web for hyperlinks documenting the ill effects wine has on the body. B)

Right, because steroids are just a natural product of consumption that the regular joe does all the time.

Just because I offer information about benefits doesn't mean I'm telling you to stop abstaining from whatever you consider forbidden. I just don't like seeing something painted as all bad when it's not.

M. :)

[CrimsonKairos]

I just don't like seeing something painted as all bad when it's not.

But what if I use really pretty pastel colors?

[Iggy]

<div class='quotemain'>

I just don't like seeing something painted as all bad when it's not.

But what if I use really pretty pastel colors?

Only if there are sparkley pastels CK

[CrimsonKairos]

Well at the risk of seeming girly, I'll look into picking up some of those too. B)

[shanstress70]

Alcohol, especially wine, can have positive effects on someone's health. But certain people should steer clear altogether: those who have 'addictive' personalities, or those whose family members have had problems with alcoholism.

When I was a new mom, I dealt with post partum depression, as some of you may remember me talking about in the past. I always feel the need to say that I didn't have the more severe kind that prohibits one from forging a relationship with her baby, or where I wanted to harm him... but I was seriously depressed and cried constantly.

I didn't want to take anti-depressants bc I was nursing (although they say they are safe). So every night around 7 I had a small glass of red wine. It totally relaxed me and helped me get a good night's sleep. It just kind of took the edge off.

(I pumped and bottlefed breastmilk exclusively for 6 months bc my baby wouldn't latch on. So I just pumped and disposed of it the morning after I had a glass of wine, although my doctor said that one glass a day was absolutely harmless to my baby.)

However, I could see some people getting out of hand with that and increasing it to two glasses, then three, then add one in earlier in the day, etc. You just have to know yourself.

If you choose not to drink alcohol for religious beliefs, that's great. But what's the use in trying to make it out to be a horrible thing? Same for coffee and tea? I've read more positive things than negative about the effects of them on your health, yet some still insist they are bad for you.

I think the WoW thing is strictly an obedience issue... and no, that's not an anti-mormon thing to say, as I've heard many LDS people say it. If it was all about health, trans fats would be forbidden, as it's a heck of a lot worse for you than coffee! And yes, I don't even think we had the process that creates it at that time, but that's what continuing revelation is for, right?

[CrimsonKairos]

The Word of Wisdom is like global warming: there are scientists with proof for and against it.

As for trans fats...I think that misses the point. The substances named in the WoW can cloud the mind, dull our ability to detect the still, small voice, and damage our bodies...in that order. Eating a Jumbo Jack doesn't decrease my spiritual sensitivity...but alcohol or coffee-withdrawals? Yep.

So like shan said, to each their own. However, there are reasons beyond health concerns behind the WoW, in my view.

[shanstress70]

but alcohol or coffee-withdrawals? Yep.

Withdrawals from iced tea? Nah...

The amount in a glass is about 30 mg, as opposed to coffee which is about 130mg.

[CrimsonKairos]

Which is why I didn't say withdrawals from iced tea, shan.

I swear, if you didn't have such cool chickens, it'd be really easy to resent you.

[shanstress70]

Which is why I didn't say withdrawals from iced tea, shan.

I swear, if you didn't have such cool chickens, it'd be really easy to resent you.

That made me laugh hysterically, ck. So much so that I'm taking one hour or so to tell you about it via the blackberry. This is a painstaking process as I'm still learning. Peace out till sunday everyone... Me and the family are off to the mtns to get out of the 104 degrees that its been in raleigh.

[Alaskagain]

That made me laugh hysterically, ck. So much so that I'm taking one hour or so to tell you about it via the blackberry. This is a painstaking process as I'm still learning. Peace out till sunday everyone... Me and the family are off to the mtns to get out of the 104 degrees that its been in raleigh.

who's tending the chickens??????? (will they become broilers while you're gone, in that 104 degree heat?)

[CrimsonKairos]

Drive safe, have fun, return soon. B)