Question

[clay]

Do I have to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to go to heaven?

[StrawberryFields]

What do you think Clay?

[clay]

What do you think Clay?

I guess you could say that I am green when it comes to knowledge of the Mormon Faith. I really don't know what you believe but i was told that I need to join the Church to go to heaven in a round about way. I'm just searching for knowledge of what you guys believe.

[clay]

If you feel like I need to join the Church to go to heaven, I sure wish someone would tell me either way. No one seems to give me a straight answer where i'm from.

if i knew that you had to be a member of the Church to go to heaven and you didn't know that, I would be the first to tell you. What kind of person would that make me if I didn't tell you what I truly thought it takes to go to heaven.

[CrimsonKairos]

Depends on what you mean by "heaven."

LDS believe there are three degrees of glory. They are, in ascending order of greatness: Telestial, Terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms.

Even murderers will go to the lowest degree, called the Telestial Kingdom. The prophet Joseph Smith is said to have remarked that if we could see the Telestial Kingdom, we'd kill ourselves to get there.

Now if by "heaven" you mean dwelling in God's immediate presence, in the Celestial Kingdom, then LDS believe there are a series of ordinances and covenants which all must partake of before being granted a place at God's right hand.

[Guest Yediyd]

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What do you think Clay?

Are you REALLY curious? Or just out for a troll?

I guess you could say that I am green when it comes to knowledge of the Mormon Faith. I really don't know what you believe but i was told that I need to join the Church to go to heaven in a round about way. I'm just searching for knowledge of what you guys believe.

OOPS!! Don't know how I messed that up!! Guess I'm glad I used a different color!!!

Sorry if I seem jaded...just had some run ins with some "nice" non-Mormons, reciently...

[the_jason]

There is more required for salvation than to simply believe in Christ and be a good person. There are also saving ordinances that are required. For an ordinance to be valid in the eyes of God it must be performed by one holding his authority. That authority exists only in His true church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So yes, you must be a member of the LDS church to get to heaven.

[prisonchaplain]

Just to throw a wrench in the monkey works, I have had LDS members here tell me that they believed there would be some sincere religious believers who did not join the Church, and yet will make it into the Celestial Kingdom.

[Kevin]

Just to throw a wrench in the monkey works, I have had LDS members here tell me that they believed there would be some sincere religious believers who did not join the Church, and yet will make it into the Celestial Kingdom.

Such a belief is not inconsistent with LDS doctrine to the extent those sincere religious believers did not have a chance to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ prior to their death. If they did have such a chance and chose not to take it then they will not have another chance after this life. Fortunately, God is the one who determines what constitutes a chance.

[prisonchaplain]

Such a belief is not inconsistent with LDS doctrine to the extent those sincere religious believers did not have a chance to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ prior to their death. If they did have such a chance and chose not to take it then they will not have another chance after this life. Fortunately, God is the one who determines what constitutes a chance.

Perhaps, the argument would be that, unlike evangelical Christianity, the LDS faith is not well-known. Even most Americans living today have not had a clear presentation of the LDS plan of salvation, or an explanation of the restoration. Therefore, many good-hearted, well-meaning, non-LDS will have to learn of these things in the life to come, and will likely embrace the truths.

How many of your non-LDS friends have you had opportunity to explain your faith to, in such a way that they would be responsible for knowing the message and rejecting it?

[Alaskagain]

How many of your non-LDS friends have you had opportunity to explain your faith to, in such a way that they would be responsible for knowing the message and rejecting it?

PC, you ask such great questions!!!

How many opportunities have we missed? How many opportunities do we have today?

[smilerlse]

Depends on what you mean by "heaven."

The prophet Joseph Smith is said to have remarked that if we could see the Telestial Kingdom, we'd kill ourselves to get there.

Sorry to burst a bubble, but apparently that's not true... As in he never said it, but it's supposed to be great... after all it is called a level of GLORY!

[CrimsonKairos]

Sorry to burst a bubble, but apparently that's not true... As in he never said it

The account of Joseph Smith saying we'd kill ourselves to get to the Telestial Kingdom likely derived from an entry in the diary of Charles Lowell Walker. Walker quoted Wilford Woodruff who said he heard Joseph Smith say:

"If the people knew what was behind the veil, they would try by every means to commit suicide that they might get there. But the Lord in his wisdom implanted the fear of death in every person that they might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of their Creator." (Diary of Charles Lowell Walker, ed. by A. Karl Larson and Katherine M. Larson [Logan, Ut.: Utah State University Press, 1980], vol. 1, pp. 465-66.)

[Palerider]

If you feel like I need to join the Church to go to heaven, I sure wish someone would tell me either way. No one seems to give me a straight answer where i'm from.

if i knew that you had to be a member of the Church to go to heaven and you didn't know that, I would be the first to tell you. What kind of person would that make me if I didn't tell you what I truly thought it takes to go to heaven.

If I were to tell you that your answer is no.....I can't wait for your next question.....

[the_jason]

We're forgetting about people who join the church after they die. If they died without having the gospel they will be given an opportunity in the spirit world. Ultimately, a person must be baptized a member and receive temple ordinances, whether in this life or the next, to achieve salvation.

[Dr T]

"It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement" doesn't sound like there is another chance in the afterlife to me.

[the_jason]

That verse doesn't say the judgement happens immediately after death.

[Doctor Steuss]

[...]

The prophet Joseph Smith is said to have remarked that if we could see the Telestial Kingdom, we'd kill ourselves to get there.

[...]

In the late 50's a GA (sorry, don't have a name) introduced this quote and incorrectly attributed it to Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith never said anything remotely like this (or else he and Sidney might have tried to off themselves after their vision... )

Edited to add:

OOPS!!! Sorry, I should have read on before commenting. I see that Smiley Mostly Molly and CrimsonKairos already addressed this. I will now cower in shame...

[Dr T]

I understand that The Jason. It also doesn't say that it doesn't. I don't think it does happen at the point of physical death but the implication is that it follow death. Nothing else, that I know of says there is another shot.

[Doctor Steuss]

"It is appointed once for man to die and then the judgement" doesn't sound like there is another chance in the afterlife to me.

Ah, but which judgment is that? Bema or Krino?

Edited to add (I can never seem to get it all out in the first go):

I have recently been toying with the idea of a third judgment though -- the Great White Throne Judgement (Revelation).

[Dr T]

Hi Dr. S,

I don't know what those are sir. I'd say it is the judgement day when we stand before God and are taken to be with him and others are cast away.

[CrimsonKairos]

Dr. T, have you read these before?

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Pet. 3:18-20)

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Pet. 4:6)

The second excerpt is quite explicit. The gospel was taught to departed spirits why? That they might be judged according to the flesh (i.e. physical ordinances like baptism and laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost), but live according to the spirit (i.e. receive these physical ordinances though they be spirits without physical bodies).

What's your take on those?

[Doctor Steuss]

Hi Dr. S,

I don't know what those are sir. I'd say it is the judgement day when we stand before God and are taken to be with him and others are cast away.

Hi Dr. T (it’s like a PhD or medical convention in here),

As I currently understand things (my understanding is constantly in flux though), the Bema judgment is that in which believers (and only believers) appear before the judgment seat of Christ. This will most likely occur shortly (or right after) death. Although as far as LDS theology is concerned, it might be later as there is the potential for "believers" to be won in the afterlife.

The next (Krino) is basically expressed well in the parable of the sheep and goats. This is the judgment of works. Both believers and non believers receive this judgment. As to when this occurs, my belief is that it will most likely occur after the Millennium.

The last of which (the third one I added into via “edit”) might be that in which death, etc. are “thrown into the Lake of Fire.”

[CrimsonKairos]

So often we hear that we will be judged by Christ. Interestingly, we will not only stand before Jesus at the Judgment Bar.

The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time; and we shall be brought to stand before God, knowing even as we know now, and have a bright recollection of all our guilt.

Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:43-44)

[Doctor Steuss]

Just one more thought regarding the two judgments (Bema and Krino). If there are two judgments, then logically there would be four rewards and/or destinations.

Pass Bema and pass Krino = Place #1 (Perhaps Celestial Kingdom?)

Pass Bema and fail Krino = Place #2 (Perhaps Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom?)

Fail Bema and pass Krino = Place #3 (Perhaps Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdom?)

Fail Bema and fail Krino = Place #4 (Perhaps Outer Darkness?)

Just something to dwell upon…

BTW (for clarification): Bema and Krino are basically the two Greek words used for “judgment” in the NT.

CrimsonKairos,

Thank you for the Alma scripture.

clay,

Currently, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints holds the keys of the priesthood and the authority to officiate saving ordinances/covenants. Perhaps this will help with your question: D&C 76