Genesis 49:22 Alma 46:24

[askandanswer]

In Genesis 49: 22, Jacob, son of Isaac, speaks of his son Joseph as a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall while in Alma 46:24 Moroni quotes Jacob as saying that  the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment. Does anybody have any idea who, or which group of people, Jacob and Moroni might have been referring to when they spoke of the rest of the seed of Joseph as perishing, and which group they were referring to when they spoke of a remnant being preserved? It seems ironic that the remnant of the descendants of Joseph who Moroni was speaking to, and who he was seeking to motivate and inspire through the use of Jacob’s prophesy may have been that portion which perished 450 years later. 

[Vort]

I believe Jacob's words cover the so-called "Lamanites" as well as his own people. Since the concept of Nephite vs. Lamanite was, by 300 AD, almost completely political and not really genealogical, I think the idea holds true for Moroni's use.

 

As to what or whom Jacob (Israel) had in mind when he spoke those words, we can only guess.

[hagoth]

In Genesis 49: 22, Jacob, son of Isaac, speaks of his son Joseph as a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall while in Alma 46:24 Moroni quotes Jacob as saying that  the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment. Does anybody have any idea who, or which group of people, Jacob and Moroni might have been referring to when they spoke of the rest of the seed of Joseph as perishing, and which group they were referring to when they spoke of a remnant being preserved? It seems ironic that the remnant of the descendants of Joseph who Moroni was speaking to, and who he was seeking to motivate and inspire through the use of Jacob’s prophesy may have been that portion which perished 450 years later. 

Compare 2 Nephi 3 (Lehi's parting blessing to his own son Joseph). There, Lehi referred to promises to the earlier Joseph (the one from Egypt), and further promised that a remnant of the Nephite Joseph would be spared.

 

As to the supposed irony of Moroni warning the Nephites of what was to come, it is worth nothing that immediately after Moroni's burial, thousands of Lehi's descendants exited Nephite society in a diaspora that included Hagoth's ships.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/63.3-7?lang=eng#2

 

(As to an inkling of where some of those departing Nephites went, Lehi promised a few additional things of note to his son Joseph that might be gleaned from a careful reading of the last few verses.)

[Blackmarch]

In Genesis 49: 22, Jacob, son of Isaac, speaks of his son Joseph as a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall while in Alma 46:24 Moroni quotes Jacob as saying that  the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment. Does anybody have any idea who, or which group of people, Jacob and Moroni might have been referring to when they spoke of the rest of the seed of Joseph as perishing, and which group they were referring to when they spoke of a remnant being preserved? It seems ironic that the remnant of the descendants of Joseph who Moroni was speaking to, and who he was seeking to motivate and inspire through the use of Jacob’s prophesy may have been that portion which perished 450 years later. 

if the well represents the ocean, then it would follow that it is reffering to the nephites and the lamanites. Lamanites and Nephites both descended from lehi, who was of the house of joseph. the book of mormon records the nephites as perishing the lamanites as surviving, it also shows that they would get scattered and smitten by the gentiles.. but not all and would make a comeback.

[skalenfehl]

Lehi's posterity and also Ishmael's were of Joseph. Lehi is of Manasseh and Ishmael was of Ephraim. Nephi's posterity died while Laman's was preserved and has yet to blossom as the rose.

 

 

 

“Ishmael an Ephraimite – ‘The Prophet Joseph Smith informed us that the record of Lehi was contained on the one hundred sixteen pages that were first translated and subsequently stolen, and of which an abridgment is given us in the First Book of Nephi, which is the record of Nephi individually, he himself being of the lineage of Manasseh; but that Ishmael was of the lineage of Ephraim, and that his sons married into Lehi's family, and Lehi's sons married Ishmael's daughters, thus fulfilling the words of Jacob upon Ephraim and Manasseh in the 48th chapter of Genesis [verse 16] which says: 'And let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.'  Thus these descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim grew together upon this American continent, with a sprinkling from the house of Judah, from Mulek descended, who left Jerusalem eleven years after Lehi, and founded the colony afterwards known as Zarahemla found by Mosiah -- thus making a combination, an intermixture of Ephraim and Manasseh with the remnants of Judah, and for aught we know, the remnants of some other tribes that might have accompanied Mulek.  And such have grown up upon the American continent.’ -- From "Discourse by Apostle Erastus Snow," at Logan, Utah, May 6, 1882, see Journal of Discourses, vol. 23, pp. 184, 185.” (James E. Talmage, A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.504-5)

 

 

Further consideration:

 

http://latterdaylamanite.com/2012/08/27/the-new-covenant-part-1/

http://latterdaylamanite.com/2012/08/29/the-new-covenant-part-2/

http://latterdaylamanite.com/2012/08/29/the-new-covenant-part-2/

Edited June 23, 2015 by skalenfehl