DH's internet habits...how worried should I be?

[MormonMama]

I hope this doesn't violate the terms of these boards, but I'm just not sure if I'm overreacting or not.

 

I've noticed that when I come into the room, I'll see Dh looking at sites that I think are inappropriate, but he doesn't.  They're quite racy, in my opinion.  They contain photos or videos of scantily clad women, but no actual nudity.  DH thinks it's fine since they're no nudity or actual sex, but the pictures are obviously meant to titillate and some of the ads along the side of these websites are definitely for porn sites.

 

I've done a pretty lengthy browser search and not found any actual porn sites (haven't gotten to searching for deleted browser history yet), but there are a LOT of these almost-porn sites.

 

Is it time to talk to our bishop about this or am I overreacting here?  It really bothers me, but I'm pregnant and maybe just too hormonal?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

What is the purpose of those sites?  

 

I mean, I moved away from using Yahoo because they have a lot of racy ads. Still, I wouldn't worry if my husband was using yahoo though (for news and mail).  BUT if you are talking about a site that is specifically for looking at those kinds of pictures, then I would be concerned about that.  I think that would be inappropriate.  

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, I think you are right to be concerned.  

Edited December 19, 2015 by LiterateParakeet

[MormonMama]

Thanks.  Yes, they are definitely websites whose sole purpose is to show titillating pictures of scantily clad women, some in deliberately sexual poses, and he's looked at many of them multiple times.  It definitely bothers me.  I'm just wondering if it's bad enough to see the bishop over.  I guess I'll talk to DH and at least let him know that I'm aware of it and how much it bothers me.  Should I recommend he talk to the bishop?  Should I talk to our bishop if DH refuses?

Edited December 19, 2015 by MormonMama

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

That is really inappropriate.  If I were you, I would talk to him (as calmly as possible) about how much it bothers you and suggest he see the Bishop.  Then yeah, I would talk to the Bishop too.  

[MormonMama]

Thank you, I will do that. 

[zil]

You know your husband best and how to approach this, but I would invite scripture into the discussion.  Such as Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

...or D&C 42:22 Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.

 

...and perhaps talk about how you made covenants in the temple, and that these aren't "all you have to do" (so that one might excuse themselves based on the letter of the law), they're beginning steps to help prepare you for the even higher laws of the celestial kingdom, where you want to go together, with the child you're having...

 

And I would invite him to go together to talk to the bishop.

[zil]

PS: what he is doing is addictive.  Addiction always escalates (it's the nature of addiction, one needs more to get the same reaction).  Don't ignore it.

[MormonMama]

Zil, that's exactly what I'm worried about, that it will escalate into harder stuff and maybe even an outright extramarital affair. 

 

I am hoping he will agree to talk to the bishop, but I'll go without him if he refuses (and I'll be letting him know that).  He knows the scriptures you quoted, but maybe he needs a reminder.

[Guest]

I have noticed lately that a lot of website to show videos or pictures of cute puppies and funny kids will have inappropriate ads on the sides. It could be that he's just looking at other things and the ads are there and he's trying to ignore them, and decided that they're okay since that's not what is there to look at. But I know my husband would avoid such sites. I would advise yours to do the same.

[MrShorty]

PS: what he is doing is addictive.  Addiction always escalates (it's the nature of addiction, one needs more to get the same reaction).  Don't ignore it.

I guess I will point out that the "science" behind porn addiction is nowhere near as absolutely certain as zil is. The APA (Americal Psychiatric Association) rejected porn and sex "addiction" when they compiled their most recent diagnostics manual (DSM-V), though, I understand, the decision was one of the bigger topics debated during the compilation process.

 

If porn is addictive, I have seen some that suggest that some of the "shaming" and "fear" that we approach it with drives it underground which can be part of what drives the addiction (you might find this essay by an LDS "porn addiction" therapist interesting: http://markchamberlainphd.blogspot.com/2010/10/want-porn-out-let-wife-in.html ).

 

Yes, there is the potential for him to allow this to lead to "harder" things, maybe even to an affair, but it is not near as certain that it will lead this direction as some would have us believe. Statistically, there are many husbands (especially when you look among the less religious/more secular) who are porn users, but never actually get involved with other living women.

 

My advice would come from David Schnarch. Learn to be "differentiated" from your husband so you can keep your emotional equilibrium despite these kind of choices that he makes. You will then be in a better position to deal with his choices, and to ask him to respect the choices you would like him to make. This might be a good time to talk about "boundaries" (what behaviors you will tolerate, and what behaviors, if his porn use and other sexual behaviors escalate, you will not tolerate). It might be a good time to talk about your reactions and fears with him, and try to understand his viewpoints, beliefs, and feelings about his behaviors. If needed these discussions can take place with a counselor or the bishop to moderate the discussion.

 

I wish you luck and wisdom, courage and strength, as you approach this potential crossroads.

[zil]

I worry less about the scientific vs. colloquial meaning of "addiction", and more what the Gospel teaches (looking at scantily-clad women is clearly not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ, on multiple levels).  The church has resources to help.

 

This video also rings true to me.  Even if it isn't, the thing it promotes (positive human connections) is a worthy goal in any circumstance.

 

Whatever the science, whether you want to call it addiction or habit or hobby, the simple fact is that sometimes we do bad things, and these bad things push out better things, making life worse (even if the person "enjoying" the bad things doesn't think there's anything wrong).

 

Whether it's a scientific / medical / chemical -type addiction, or just a habit-forming behavior*, I believe MormonMama is right to be concerned, and the behavior she describes (not unintentionally seeing ads on a legitimate site, but deliberately going to sites whose sole purpose is to display scantily-clad women) is not in harmony with Gospel teachings.

 

*For the record, I think every behavior, repeated often enough for a long enough time, is habit-forming; it's just a question of whether it's a good habit or a bad habit. (Experiential science according to Zil - worth every penny you paid for it.)

[MormonMama]

I have noticed lately that a lot of website to show videos or pictures of cute puppies and funny kids will have inappropriate ads on the sides. It could be that he's just looking at other things and the ads are there and he's trying to ignore them, and decided that they're okay since that's not what is there to look at. But I know my husband would avoid such sites. I would advise yours to do the same.

 

I wish that was true, but I'm finding these sites he's looking at from the search history.  So he's seeking them out.  And some of them he has looked at multiple times over the last few weeks.

[MormonMama]

Sorry, double post.

Edited December 19, 2015 by MormonMama

[MormonMama]

 

My advice would come from David Schnarch. Learn to be "differentiated" from your husband so you can keep your emotional equilibrium despite these kind of choices that he makes. You will then be in a better position to deal with his choices, and to ask him to respect the choices you would like him to make. This might be a good time to talk about "boundaries" (what behaviors you will tolerate, and what behaviors, if his porn use and other sexual behaviors escalate, you will not tolerate). It might be a good time to talk about your reactions and fears with him, and try to understand his viewpoints, beliefs, and feelings about his behaviors. If needed these discussions can take place with a counselor or the bishop to moderate the discussion.

 

I wish you luck and wisdom, courage and strength, as you approach this potential crossroads.

 

 

I guess I am not sure what you mean by "differentiated" from him.  I have no idea what that means.

 

He knows how I feel about porn and him looking at scantily clad or nude women, period.  We had this discussion even before we were married and it has come up from time to time during our marriage.  To me it is a form of cheating, especially if he is deliberately seeking it out.  We have had this discussion in the past and he knows my feelings.  He had a problem with internet porn years ago (not severe or long-term, but it also involved doing things guys tend to do when they look at porn).  In all honesty, it doesn't need to escalate.  If he is deliberately looking at scantily clad women, then I consider it cheating.

[NeuroTypical]

So MM, how did the conversation with your husband go?

[JojoBag]

I hope this doesn't violate the terms of these boards, but I'm just not sure if I'm overreacting or not.

 

I've noticed that when I come into the room, I'll see Dh looking at sites that I think are inappropriate, but he doesn't.  They're quite racy, in my opinion.  They contain photos or videos of scantily clad women, but no actual nudity.  DH thinks it's fine since they're no nudity or actual sex, but the pictures are obviously meant to titillate and some of the ads along the side of these websites are definitely for porn sites.

 

I've done a pretty lengthy browser search and not found any actual porn sites (haven't gotten to searching for deleted browser history yet), but there are a LOT of these almost-porn sites.

 

Is it time to talk to our bishop about this or am I overreacting here?  It really bothers me, but I'm pregnant and maybe just too hormonal?

 

Speaking as a former porn addict, you are right to be concerned. The first step into problems with pornography begin in the mind. You are what you think. In his treatise, “As A Man Thinketh,” James Allen wrote, “A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts.” Your husband's delving into “racy” media started a long time ago by what he put into his mind. It didn't happen just “suddenly,” but was a process of leaving the spiritual behind and he is filling his mind with garbage

 

The same thing happens with pornography. It isn't something that a person gets into overnight. It is a process of thought that takes one step at a time to the dark side. It begins by the acceptance of immodesty as normal and progresses from there. Not only is your husband looking at racy pictures, he is lusting after them. And, he doesn't limit his looking at the photos, he does it with women in real life who meet the same profile as the women in the photos. In his mind, your husband is committing adultery.

 

The next step will be looking up pornography. I would not be surprised to know he is doing this now. There are ways he will justify his looking by how he uses the search program. He will think that he's just looking up normal things and if something “just happens” to pop up, well that's not his fault; he didn't actually go to a porn site. You can put the most innocuous seeming words into Google and come up with porn. I once put in the words, “steely eyed” and I got photos of naked people.

 

No man (especially married) is justified in looking around at women. It is a fallacy that men just naturally look;; “boys will be boys.” That is a lie planted by Satan so that men can justify committing adultery in their hearts. While men may have a tendency to look, it is their moral and spiritual obligation to master that impulse – to control their carnal desires and bring the spirit into subjection to God's will.

 

As for looking up the browsing history, if he knows anything about Internet Explorer, there is the "InPrivate Browsing" mode under "Tools" in the menu bar.  If he uses that, you won't find any browsing history.  He can also selectively delete web sites under the history.  If you keep signed in to Google, you can look up the browsing history online.  Even if he is savvy enough to use InPrivate Browsing, Google still keeps a history of whatever he puts in the search engine.  The problem is if he uses a different search engine that doesn't keep track.

 

In your shoes, I would be sick with concern. His delving into the “racy” side is just one step away from dabbling in pornography if he isn't already there. He is also betraying you.  I'd be running to my bishop as fast as I can, however, you will be confronted with denial so convincing that it will make you question yourself.  When you continue to be concerned, he will be angry, resentful, make excuses and turn the accusations back on you.    I know because I speak from experience.

[MormonMama]

So MM, how did the conversation with your husband go?

 

He won't be home from work for over an hour.

[MormonMama]

JoJoBag, thank you for your comments.  Everything you said is exactly what I think and how I feel.  I've confronted DH more than once about racy things showing up on his Facebook account, with our kids right there in the room.  His excuse is exactly, "they just pop up!"  I told him they don't pop up on mine, so he must be looking at things that invite those kinds of pictures.  I've also seen his friends send him racy and outright pornographic material on Facebook.  I've told him he needs to block that kind of stuff.  I had to show him how to block particular posts without blocking or unfriending the person in question.

 

Luckily for me, DH isn't tech saavy enough to know how to hide or delete browser history.  When we have a problem with our internet I either have to fix it or, if I can't, I have to call in a friend who can.  He never owned a computer or cell phone in his life before he married me.  I've had to teach him how to use a computer and "surf the web".  Everything he knows about computers he learned from me, and I've never taught him how to delete the browser history (and I'm not about to).

[Backroads]

Science and addiction and assuming a man has a respectable reason for making a hobby out of looking at scantily clad women... all I know is I'd be upset if my husband were doing the same thing. The idea that lust is A-OK as long as the goods are technically covered is ridiculous.

[Backroads]

Furthermore, I'm sure many a porn flick involves clothing.

[Guest]

I'm not saying he's an addict, but a hallmark of addicts is that they lie, and justify, and lie some more. He might be more capable than he lets on. 

[MormonMama]

DH came home just a bit ago and I did tell him what I had discovered.  He didn't say anything at first, so I asked him if he was admitting it or denying it and he admitted it.  I told him that to say I was upset about it was an understatement and that he needs to talk to our bishop.  He said he would, but we'll see.

 

Eowyn, I don't think he's an addict...yet.  Because of his past issue years ago, I do check browser history from time to time and it's only been in the past month or so that this stuff has shown up.  But I've read enough articles to know that the potential is definitely there.

 

We'll see if he actually talks to our bishop and where things go from here.  But honestly, if he doesn't make an effort to change, he may find himself alone by next Christmas.  I forgave him once in the past for this and he did make changes and made an effort to avoid it at the time, but if he's doing it again that tells me that this may be an even deeper problem than I had thought.

 

And with his work hours and mine being so different, it would be pretty easy for him to have an affair and me not find out.  So far I'm not seeing anything that makes me think he is and my gut is telling me he's not, but I'm not naive enough to think it could never happen.

[jerome1232]

He doesn't have to know how to delete browser history, all browsers have a privacy mode that you can turn on right from their bar that doesn't track history.

[MormonMama]

He doesn't have to know how to delete browser history, all browsers have a privacy mode that you can turn on right from their bar that doesn't track history.

 

I don't even know how to do that, so I can pretty much guarantee you that he doesn't either.  Trust me, DH is pretty dumb when it comes to computers.  He can do a websearch and click on links, but that's about it.  And I had to teach him how to do that.

[yjacket]

But honestly, if he doesn't make an effort to change, he may find himself alone by next Christmas.  

 

Okay this is a big what the??? to me.  I'm obviously not clearly understanding this, or there must be something else here that we don't know.

 

Are you seriously saying that a) you are pregnant and that b) if your husband is continues looking at racy pictures then next Christmas he will be alone?? as in either separated or divorced.

m

If I have that right, on what planet is that line of thinking acceptable?

 

Is porn a big deal and a problem, Yes! Unfortunately, we seem to have an all or nothing approach to it-when it is not.  There is a big different between looking at racy pictures and going to some xxx website.  Are they both bad, yes. Can one lead to the other-yes. Are they both the same level-no, no, and no.  Just like there is a big difference between getting buzzed, drunk and then wasted-are they all bad-yeah.

 

You are worried that it will escalate from soft-porn to hard-porn to an extramartial affair??  If you are honestly seriously worried about an affair then your marriage has much bigger problems than pornography.

 

As far as going to the Bishop, exactly what do you hope to accomplish if your husband does not volunteer to go?  Shame him into quitting? Unless you need moral support, don't go to the Bishop as there is really nothing he can do about it until your husband is ready and willing to make any changes.

 

Maybe I'm just a little grumpy tonight, but I see several things in your writings that are red flags to me.  You've said a few times your husband isn't smart enough to figure things out, i.e. talking disparagingly about your husband (hint-I guarantee he is smarter than you think), and possibly doing so in front of your children (I hope I'm reading that wrong too). Taking him to the Bishop (is he a child? I think he is a grown man, he can make his own decisions on when to go). Mentioning affairs (has he given you any reason to suspect other interactions).

 

I'll also be blunt- it sounds like you both work. Both spouses working outside the home can destroy plenty of marriages-especially with young children.

 

In general, marriages work the best when both the men and the women fulfill the predefined God-given roles that men and women have in a marriage.  Men are providers (i.e. bring home money) and women are nurturers and caretakers (i.e. take care of kids and home).  Now this is a general rule and there are always exceptions. But I can pretty much guarantee you that in a strong marriage a man will not be looking at pornography, but in a weak marriage a man may look at pornography.

 

The soft-core stuff, it ain't your fight-it is his fight and his alone.  You can support him, but some things in life you just got to do yourself and being his babysitter isn't going to help him at all.  What you can do, to help him overcome this is to be the best wife possible.  Fulfill your role the best way possible.

 

Personally, I think going to the bishop and "tattling" on him especially without his permission has the potential to do much more damage to your marriage than the soft-core stuff.

 

I never go to the Bishop with dealings with my spouse, unless she is okay with me going to him, and if I went without her knowing or being okay with it, I certainly wouldn't bring up her sins-unless it was necessary to help me explain the situation for my spiritual support.

Edited December 20, 2015 by yjacket