What God Thinks About Women And The Priesthood

[Gaia]

<div class='quotemain'>

I am in a unique position in that regard, my personal example is really beyond the scope of this discussion.

I'll take that as a nothing.

GAIA:

If i'd meant "nothing", i'd have said "nothing". I didn't. I said what i meant.

If you're going to provide your own answers, why bother to ask questions or even discuss with others? BTW, you should know that's a rather disrespectful thing to do.

~Gaia

Do we know the name of the first black man who was called into the Priesthood?

GAIA:

The first man to be given Priesthood (by Joseph Smith, in fact) was Elijah Abel.

See:

- www.blacklds.org/mormon/abel.html

- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah_Abel

- www.signaturebookslibrary.org/neither/neither4.htm

[Elphaba]

"Fine - if that is the point you are now trying to make, according to Mormon Doctrine women do not have the priesthood - which makes all your argumentation irrelevant.

No it doesn't.

Careful El, the hypocrisy meter is running.

hehehehe

Are you for real? We are talking about public message boards. No one is rumaging through your dresser drawers.

Are you sure?

That imaginary line in your head? If I run across any websites where you post, and you're posting something interesting, like being in an atheist priesthood, I'll be sure to open up a few posts about it. Just because you're embarrased doesn't make it wrong.

Would you like my link to XAXTXHXEXIXSXTX?

Stalking you? You claimed that you weren't on that site. How can she stalk you if your not there? Your idea of comon courtesy is a crock. I believed you when you said you didn't post there. Now it seems that you may be posting somewhere that you are very concerned that we don't find out about.... speaks to that hidden agenda of yours that you have trouble keeping hidden.

Wow! I'm busted! I really am in an atheist priesthood. Our mission is to search and destroy all users named "Snow." There, that's my hidden agenda. I've already reported you, and you have very little time left to say goodbye, so I suggest you not waste it sparring with an atheist priestess . . . abracadabramamaplayedthesqueezeboxboo!

Egads - libel? Can you spell hyperbole?

Why should I?

You just did.

I simply meant that your point was too substantive.

No such thing.

Therefore, I felt it important to give you my credentials. Typical Snow style, you changed the goalpost, and then threw down the hackneyed "victim card."

If the card fits...

Make it a platinum card, and maybe I'll let you live.

Elphaba

[a-train]

Perhaps I've got you guys nervous about me. I'm NOT of any opinion that women are to be admitted to the oath and covenant of the priesthood and serve as Elders or to perform baptisms, etc.

I am making two statements here.

1st) By virtue of taking up the ordinances of salvation and through marriage, LDS women 'have the priesthood'. Or in other words, 'have the priesthood in their lives.' Or, possessing their husbands, they possess also their husband's Priesthood through him. This is in contrast to women who have not partaken of such. About whom we would say they 'have NOT the priesthood in their lives.' In contrast to non-LDS women I say: 'LDS women have the Priesthood.' See what I'm saying?

2nd) The priesthood is the authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ. If all you are authorized to do is testify by the Holy Ghost in His name, you at least possess that authority, that priesthood; or that amount of THE Priesthood. If your only calling is to put away the Hymnals after meetings, you possess that authority in the kingdom of God and have been given it by prophecy and revelation and it is your right and authority, it is your Priesthood. Women are called upon to do work in the name of Christ, but the work they do doesn't require an ordination to any office of the Priesthood. They DO therefore have at least that portion of authority to do whatever it is they have been called to do. This is their Priesthood.

Question: How does a woman become a Priestess without possessing any priesthood?

-a-train

Wo, OK. I just noticed the other x'd thread with all the talk about women in the priesthood and I see Crimson basically saying what I am saying. Good enough, I should have peeped all that 1st.

[Elphaba]

BTW, you should know that's a rather disrespectful thing to do.

Choke...snort...cough cough..snnnooorrrrt.

Sorry. My soda just came out my nostrils.

Elphaba

[Annabelli]

God is not going to call women to the Priesthood one at a time; God will call them all at the same time.

Yet on June 9, 1978, the LDS Church's Deseret News carried a startling announcement by the First Presidency of the LDS Church that stated a new revelation had been given:

We have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the upper room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color (Deseret News, June 9, 1978, p. 1A).

[Elphaba]

God is not going to call women to the Priesthood one at a time; God will call them all at the same time.

Yet on June 9, 1978, the LDS Church's Deseret News carried a startling announcement by the First Presidency of the LDS Church that stated a new revelation had been given:

We have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the upper room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color (Deseret News, June 9, 1978, p. 1A).

So, Annabelli, have the Brethren pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of their faithful sisters to receive the Preisthood, spending many hours in the upper room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance?

Because until they do that, the LDS women could overcome world hunger, convert every terrorist on earth to Mormonism, and raise their children to abhorr war, thereby ending all global conflicts. Then they could organize their two-year supplies in specially made bunkers where a nuclear blast actually starts a chemical reaction that makes the grain and potatoes start to grow, (developed by Mormon SAHM who took her bachelor's in nuclearphysics). Finally, just in case, twice a week, all around the world, they form into their militias, AK-47s in hand, and goose-step to "We Must, We Must, We Must Improve Our Bust" while wearing a Burkha, just to show how humbled, organized and disciplined they are . . . and Annabelli . . . it wouldn't matter spit.

Satire aside, are you insane? Have you never heard of the humble, disciplined and organized Relief Society? Do you realize it is one of the oldest and largest women's organizations on the planet? It is telling to me that the very assets it is known for are the same you seem to think women in the Church lack.

Is it perfect? Well, about as perfect as you're going to get on this earth, and at the same time always striving to be better. What more could you ask for?

Even as a non-member, I understand that women will hold the Priesthood when, and if, the Brethren decide they will, and that it has nothing to do with some perceived shortcomings on the part of the women. In fact, your "prophecies" are insulting, given that the majority of LDS women go far beyond your call for "humble, disciplined and organized. As a believer, what are you thinking? Do you believe God isn't happy with you and your fellow sisters in the Church? Is it your right to make the determination for anyone but yourself?

Elphaba

[sixpacktr]

One trivial point: we aren't given priesthood power, we are given authority. We acquire power in the priesthood as we purify our hands and hearts and become worthy of exercising our authority. I always wince when someone starts a blessing with, "By the power of the holy Melchizedek Priesthood which we hold..." How do I know they have power in it? I know they have the authority, but that doesn't mean they have power springing from goodness. Like I said...trivial point...pet peeve...not worth interrupting a blessing over!

Very good point, CK. In my last Stake we were counselled just that: don't give blessings by the power of the MP but by the authority. There is a difference. The other thing we were counselled not to do was to 'seal' the blessings upon someone, but rather 'pronounce' them, or 'say' them. Why? Because the only people that could 'seal' something were the sealers in the temple.

Again, as you say it is trivial and I doubt HF would nix a blessing or ordination because of it, but there is an order to our HF's kingdom, and words do have meaning, moreso than we realize sometimes.

[shanstress70]

Seeing the Priesthood through the eyes of a child:

When my child was about six years old, he was invited to go somewhere with his buddy and his friend's father. My son said something to the effect that they were going to have to be good because his dad was a man.

I asked him "what is the difference between a mommy and a daddy?" He said "a mommy is like a kid and a daddy is all grown up."

I think that he was seeing how women are very good at short term goals and that men are very good with long term goals. I do not think it had to do with maturity.

A mother would provide for him as he needed it but his father would take him to the Celestial Kingdom.

The short term goals of women contribute to the long term goals of men.

Do my sons hold the Priesthood, yes. Do I, No. Their relationship with the Lord is much different than mine.

Wow Annabelli, once again I must be living in different universe than you. If my child was asked who's more like the adult and who's more like the child, it would definitely be the other way around in my house. It's not my intention to say anything negative about my dearest husband, but I am the one who begs and pleads for them to stop playing the Wii and come eat dinner, I'm the one who declares 'clean-up time' with whines from both of them, I'm the one who tells them to come in from the garage bc it's time to go 'where ever'. I'm also the one who takes my child to church and prays with him every night. I plan for my child's education by choosing the best schools to try to get him into next year when he starts Kindergarten. Both my husband and I earn the money and plan and save for our retirement. Several long-term goals mixed in there!

I understand that what you said may be true for you, but please understand that your situation is not typical of most women.

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

No silly. Men can have it.

As a mother I play a different role and I like it.

I would never want to be a man okay.

GAIA:

Hi There, Strawberry -- (yum, i love Strawberries! *g*)

Several points:

1. Neither would I wish to be a man, nor would most other women i've ever known.

There is a vast difference between having and exercising the Priesthood, and "wanting to be a man".

2. But (unless i misunderstood you, which is entirely possible!) you seem to have avoided an important question: You said "your plate is full, you don't need to also carry the PH." What about men whose "plate(s) are full" -- Should they also forego PH ? And if not, WHY not?

3. But besides all that, there is a perhaps even more basic, essential and personally relevant question:

Scriptures and Latter-day revelation say those who are Exalted, will one day be "Queens and Priestesses" -- See for example Revelation 1:6, 5:10, D&C 76:56, and the following modern LDS quotes:

So, If this is the ultimate design of the Gospel (and it certainly seems to be) --

Does your lack of desire for priesthood now, mean that you would not wish to be Exalted, nor have the responsibilities that go with it, which include being a "Queen and Priestess"?

Sincerely --

~Gaia

Hello Gaia,

When the time comes for me to have the priesthood I will have it and not before. :)

I am not one of those who cry over the lack of what women currently have. I like my role as a wife and a mother exactly as it is now. I figure that if something isn't broken why fix it.

IMO to question why women do not currently have the priesthood is to question the very foundation of our church and those who lead us. I trust that things are exactly how they should be for this time. I walk in faith believing all is well. :)

[Gaia]

When the time comes for me to have the priesthood I will have it and not before. :)

I am not one of those who cry over the lack of what women currently have. I like my role as a wife and a mother exactly as it is now. I figure that if something isn't broken why fix it.

IMO to question why women do not currently have the priesthood is to question the very foundation of our church and those who lead us. I trust that things are exactly how they should be for this time. I walk in faith believing all is well. :)

GAIA:

I understand. There certainly are many who hold to that position, and you and they are of course entitled to it, and to have it respected.

I would like to make one commment: Those women who dissent or differ from your position do NOT necessarily "cry over" the matter; nor do they "dislike their roles", reject their femininity, or any such thing -- of which they are often accused. They dissent / differ. There is a difference, and i hope that difference is clear. :)

Blessings --

~Gaia

[Gaia]

1st) By virtue of taking up the ordinances of salvation and through marriage, LDS women 'have the priesthood'. Or in other words, 'have the priesthood in their lives.' Or, possessing their husbands, they possess also their husband's Priesthood through him.

GAIA:

In the first thread on this topic (entitled, "Did women ever have the Priesthood") i posted an article (post #56) which demonsrtated that at least according to earlier GA's (who were taught on the Fulness of Priesthood from Joseph Smith, himself) the popular notion that women "receive the PH through their husbands" is FALSE; that (at least some) women have a birthright to PH which depends upon no man. Please see that article for specifics and references.

Question: How does a woman become a Priestess without possessing any priesthood? [emphasis added]

GAIA:

Ah, Good Question !!!

Here's another:

If women don't currently have some kind of PH, How is it they function as Priestesses in the Temple, administering ordinances?

And another:

If women currently have no PH, How is it they wear the "Robes of the Holy Priesthood"?

B)

Blessings --

~Gaia

[CrimsonKairos]

Easy.

Women who perform initiatory ordinances aren't set apart to be priestesses. Or has the wording changed?

Women who wear the robes of the holy priesthood do so as recipients of covenant and blessings, not office or keys.

Women are not priestesses in this life, but are only ordained to become such. This whole topic is getting really old. Holy shmeck!

[sixpacktr]

Easy.

Women who perform initiatory ordinances aren't set apart to be priestesses. Or has the wording changed?

Women who wear the robes of the holy priesthood do so as recipients of covenant and blessings, not office or keys.

Women are not priestesses in this life, but are only ordained to become such. This whole topic is getting really old. Holy shmeck!

Right on CK.

The views held by some of the 'faithful' women on this board boggles the mind...

[Gaia]

Women are not priestesses in this life, but are only ordained to become such.

GAIA:

I understand that is your position. I also think the evidence indicates differently.

The views held by some of the 'faithful' women on this board boggles the mind...

GAIA:

Aw, a little "boggling" now and then might be healthy!

And i'm relieved to see that you agree it's entirely possible to hold alternative views and still be "faithful"

Blessings --

~Gaia