Miraculous Gifts

[Guest]

I just saw the film Ephraim's Rescue. For a low budget film, the production quality was pretty good.

It was apparently quite well documented from the journals of the pioneers that were involved in the rescue -- especially narration straight out of Ephraim Hanks' own journal.  The film opened my eyes to something that I hadn't really thought about.  The nature of spiritual gifts and that they are given severally.  And we need to seek out the best gifts.

Ephraim was one of the men who came to rescue the Martin handcart company.  While everyone played a part, his story was filled with miracles from beginning to end.  I couldn't do them all justice if I were to describe them all.  But the entire movie goes on about each miracle after miracle.

Ephraim Hanks apparently was given the gift of miraculous healing and exceedingly great faith.  He provided a buffalo (that normally wouldn't be found in that area and season) for the starving people.  He healed things that simply were not able to be healed.  He raised people from the dead.  I say this as a short hand in respect for the name of Deity.  It was, of course, not Ephraim.  It was the power of God.  And Ephraim was used as an instrument in the Lord's hands.

A few exchanges stuck out in my mind.

In one scene, he was asked why he always washed his hands and the head of the individual he was blessing.  He said

Quote

None of us is clean before the Lord.  But we must do whatever we can to be so.

Today, we're not instructed to do this sort of action when giving a blessing.  I'm not sure why. But his attitude about it is very interesting.

Another conversation he had was:

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Alice Dobson: Brother Hanks, it's my son. (Her son Thomas Dobson was on his death bed and had severe frostbite on his feet since his shoes had long worn out on the journey).  They say you have a gift.

As she watches him prepare for the blessing:

Dobson: You must be a holy man.

Ephraim: No I have enough faults that I can't list 'em all.

Dobson: So, how is it that you can do so much good?

Ephraim: Because I try.

I found this highly informative on many levels.  Sometimes we look on the pioneers as if they were practically demigods themselves.  They weren't.  They all had their own demons they were trying to get rid of.  They were just as mortal as we are.  But perhaps their advantage is that they simply HAD to depend on the Lord for so much more, that they had greater faith than we do today.

Another thing is that we think of the priesthood as a cover-all for all spiritual gifts.  I'm beginning to wonder about this.  Does every man who has been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood have the power to heal?  I'm not sure.  Why do so many healing blessings produce no results?  Yet, I myself have been both the recipient and provider of such blessings that did result in miraculous healing.  And when I talk about it, I'm still met with doubt even from the Saints.

I wonder if this is a gift that is given severally.  That is that some people have the gift.  Others don't.  Even after the pioneers of such exceeding faith and faithfulness arrived in Salt Lake, not all of them were able to heal like this.  Bro. Hanks was often called upon from people far away to come give a blessing.  There were other priesthood holders in the area.  But they did not heal them.

I just don't know what to make of it as of yet.  It's definitely worth pondering.

[Traveler]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I just saw the film Ephraim's Rescue. For a low budget film, the production quality was pretty good.

It was apparently quite well documented from the journals of the pioneers that were involved in the rescue -- especially narration straight out of Ephraim Hanks' own journal.  The film opened my eyes to something that I hadn't really thought about.  The nature of spiritual gifts and that they are given severally.  And we need to seek out the best gifts.

Ephraim was one of the men who came to rescue the Martin handcart company.  While everyone played a part, his story was filled with miracles from beginning to end.  I couldn't do them all justice if I were to describe them all.  But the entire movie goes on about each miracle after miracle.

Ephraim Hanks apparently was given the gift of miraculous healing and exceedingly great faith.  He provided a buffalo (that normally wouldn't be found in that area and season) for the starving people.  He healed things that simply were not able to be healed.  He raised people from the dead.  I say this as a short hand in respect for the name of Deity.  It was, of course, not Ephraim.  It was the power of God.  And Ephraim was used as an instrument in the Lord's hands.

A few exchanges stuck out in my mind.

In one scene, he was asked why he always washed his hands and the head of the individual he was blessing.  He said

Today, we're not instructed to do this sort of action when giving a blessing.  I'm not sure why. But his attitude about it is very interesting.

Another conversation he had was:

I found this highly informative on many levels.  Sometimes we look on the pioneers as if they were practically demigods themselves.  They weren't.  They all had their own demons they were trying to get rid of.  They were just as mortal as we are.  But perhaps their advantage is that they simply HAD to depend on the Lord for so much more, that they had greater faith than we do today.

Another thing is that we think of the priesthood as a cover-all for all spiritual gifts.  I'm beginning to wonder about this.  Does every man who has been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood have the power to heal?  I'm not sure.  Why do so many healing blessings produce no results?  Yet, I myself have been both the recipient and provider of such blessings that did result in miraculous healing.  And when I talk about it, I'm still met with doubt even from the Saints.

I wonder if this is a gift that is given severally.  That is that some people have the gift.  Others don't.  Even after the pioneers of such exceeding faith and faithfulness arrived in Salt Lake, not all of them were able to heal like this.  Bro. Hanks was often called upon from people far away to come give a blessing.  There were other priesthood holders in the area.  But they did not heal them.

I just don't know what to make of it as of yet.  It's definitely worth pondering.

I suggest you read the entire chapter 10 of Moroni.  -- Vary Carefully.

 

The Traveler

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I love that movie for all the reasons you shared. And I love your post.  

I have become convinced from my own experiences that Heavenly Father WANTS us to seek for spiritual gifts.  The Gift of Healing, yes, and so many others.  

[CV75]

20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Another thing is that we think of the priesthood as a cover-all for all spiritual gifts.  I'm beginning to wonder about this.  Does every man who has been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood have the power to heal?  I'm not sure.  Why do so many healing blessings produce no results?  Yet, I myself have been both the recipient and provider of such blessings that did result in miraculous healing.  And when I talk about it, I'm still met with doubt even from the Saints.

I wonder if this is a gift that is given severally.  That is that some people have the gift.  Others don't.  Even after the pioneers of such exceeding faith and faithfulness arrived in Salt Lake, not all of them were able to heal like this.  Bro. Hanks was often called upon from people far away to come give a blessing.  There were other priesthood holders in the area.  But they did not heal them.

I think every Elder has the authority to perform blessings, but only some have the spiritual gift of healing. The Lord honoring either to bring healing blessings to pass is contingent upon our faith and His will working together (and sometimes the agency of others not acting against God), so when they do not come together, we do not have the results (such a situation was addressed in D&C 124:49-50). D&C 46:11-12, 26 also says, “For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God. To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby. …And all these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God.”

[Sunday21]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

I think every Elder has the authority to perform blessings, but only some have the spiritual gift of healing. The Lord honoring either to bring healing blessings to pass is contingent upon our faith and His will working together (and sometimes the agency of others not acting against God), so when they do not come together, we do not have the results (such a situation was addressed in D&C 124:49-50). D&C 46:11-12, 26 also says, “For all have not every gift given unto them; for there are many gifts, and to every man is given a gift by the Spirit of God. To some is given one, and to some is given another, that all may be profited thereby. …And all these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God.”

 

I had thought that the faith on which the blessing was contingent was the faith of the one being healed rather than the one bestowing the blessing. Is this not the case?

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

I had thought that the faith on which the blessing was contingent was the faith of the one being healed rather than the one bestowing the blessing. Is this not the case?

It is, sometimes.

“And again, to some it is given to have faith to be healed; And to others it is given to have faith to heal” (D&C 46:19-20). In this case, faith is a spiritual gift unto itself, and that can be used in conjunction with the gift of healing. Priesthood administration (blessing for health) is not mentioned here, but it is in D&C 42:43, 44 in the context of those without faith but who believe, in which the priesthood administration reveals the Lord’s will through the actual outcome and not the anticipated miracle.

I think the spiritual gift of faith also works in conjunction with the priesthood administration. But we can generate faith outside of it being a particular spiritual gift. And sometimes the faith of the receiver is greater than the faith of the person giving the priesthood blessing or using the gift of healing. While the spiritual gift can be used instead of the priesthood administration, the same person can use both concurrently.

I would say that in all cases the blessing is contingent upon the Lord’s will. Sometimes the Spirit will direct someone to say, “This blessing is contingent upon your faith,” and of course someone might also say that out of habit.

[Guest]

@CV75

That is exactly what I'm having trouble reconciling.  The simple explanation between a gift vs revealing the Lord's will is insufficient difference to me.  I'm also having trouble reconciling these meanings as their superficial meaning when put up against what I've experienced personally and what I've read of miracle anciently as well as in early church history.  

I recognize I may not be getting enough of the details of the accounts.  And I don't know what I'm supposed to do about that.  But I do know what I've experienced personally on both ends of it.  And I'm just not certain if these descriptions give us the whole picture.

I'm not sure what it is I'd expect.  I know I'd like additional information and a better understanding of what is really going on.  This is definitely one that will take more study, pondering, and prayer.

[CV75]

11 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@CV75

That is exactly what I'm having trouble reconciling.  The simple explanation between a gift vs revealing the Lord's will is insufficient difference to me.  I'm also having trouble reconciling these meanings as their superficial meaning when put up against what I've experienced personally and what I've read of miracle anciently as well as in early church history.  

I recognize I may not be getting enough of the details of the accounts.  And I don't know what I'm supposed to do about that.  But I do know what I've experienced personally on both ends of it.  And I'm just not certain if these descriptions give us the whole picture.

I'm not sure what it is I'd expect.  I know I'd like additional information and a better understanding of what is really going on.  This is definitely one that will take more study, pondering, and prayer.

If I’m understanding you correctly, you have used the priesthood (anointing and sealing with consecrated oil for the purpose of blessing the sick) to heal others, and you also have been healed by priesthood administration. I’m not clear as to whether you have the spiritual gift of healing or of faith to heal, or the spiritual gift of faith to be healed.

I’m seeing subtle differences between the spiritual gift of healing and the spiritual gift of faith to heal. There are at least two spiritual processes involved, these being the exercise of faith to use the priesthood, and exercising faith in the priesthood. And there is one other related spiritual gift, the gift of faith to be healed.

Regarding Brother Hanks, who had a better heling record than other priesthood holders in the area, I’m thinking that those who sought him out for healing may have had more faith in him than in their priesthood holding neighbors. That might be one reason they were not healed by priesthood administration; they simply lacked faith in it or their neighbors. Another is that perhaps Brother Hanks had more confidence in his spiritual gift than the priesthood holders had in using their priesthood. Personal worthiness may have had something to do with it. And perhaps the community at large simply recognized his gift and chose to use that as the first recourse before seeking priesthood blessings, simply in the interest of efficiency and efficacy.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

If I’m understanding you correctly, you have used the priesthood (anointing and sealing with consecrated oil for the purpose of blessing the sick) to heal others, and you also have been healed by priesthood administration.

All correct.

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

I’m not clear as to whether you have the spiritual gift of healing or of faith to heal, or the spiritual gift of faith to be healed.

Neither am I.  I'm still unclear as to what this is.

The main problem is that I've read somewhere in church history that there were certain women who were given a special gift.  It was not done as a priesthood ordinance. There was no laying on of hands or anointing with oil.  But they basically said a special prayer that had a greater track record than others who prayed to be healed.  That is my recollection anyway.

Additionally, while I have administered and healed people, there is a particular person I know who does something completely different.  He makes every effort to make sure this gift is of God.  But it is ... different.  I've seen the results myself.  And it is completely inexplicable by any medicine or biology I am aware of.  No placebo effect is possible simply because it was such a young child that it was done to.  And the nature of the healing... is simply miraculous.  This is the first time I've personally even heard of a man who had such a good track record of healing without laying on of hands or anointing.  So, I'm going to guess that he has a "gift of the Spirit" as a healer, as well as being a MP holder.

I'm just not sure what to make of it all or how they are related.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Guest

[Traveler]

14 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@CV75

That is exactly what I'm having trouble reconciling.  The simple explanation between a gift vs revealing the Lord's will is insufficient difference to me.  I'm also having trouble reconciling these meanings as their superficial meaning when put up against what I've experienced personally and what I've read of miracle anciently as well as in early church history.  

I recognize I may not be getting enough of the details of the accounts.  And I don't know what I'm supposed to do about that.  But I do know what I've experienced personally on both ends of it.  And I'm just not certain if these descriptions give us the whole picture.

I'm not sure what it is I'd expect.  I know I'd like additional information and a better understanding of what is really going on.  This is definitely one that will take more study, pondering, and prayer.

 

Perhaps I can help you with your question.  I believe all spiritual gifts are types and shadows that bring us to Christ and the atonement which is the ultimate blessing of healing and comfort.   A priesthood holder stands in proxy for Christ and the atonement.  To do that successfully requires a great deal of faith.  But as we all know there is more than the faith of Christ that completes the healing and comfort of the atonement.  The one receiving the blessing must repent as well as have faith in Christ to be healed.   Or as Jesus often said – your faith has made you whole.  But we all know that Jesus plays a role as well.

 

The Traveler

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

All correct.

Neither am I.  I'm still unclear as to what this is.

The main problem is that I've read somewhere in church history that there were certain women who were given a special gift.  It was not done as a priesthood ordinance. There was no laying on of hands or anointing with oil.  But they basically said a special prayer that had a greater track record than others who prayed to be healed.  That is my recollection anyway.

Additionally, while I have administered and healed people, there is a particular person I know who does something completely different.  He makes every effort to make sure this gift is of God.  But it is ... different.  I've seen the results myself.  And it is completely inexplicable by any medicine or biology I am aware of.  No placebo effect is possible simply because it was such a young child that it was done to.  And the nature of the healing... is simply miraculous.  This is the first time I've personally even heard of a man who had such a good track record of healing without laying on of hands or anointing.  So, I'm going to guess that he has a "gift of the Spirit" as a healer, as well as being a MP holder.

I'm just not sure what to make of it all or how they are related.

Yes, the daughters of God have spiritual gifts, including that of healing. Our practices may have changed over the years, but that is a separate discussion, I think. But I believe this gift is alive and well with those sisters who possess and use it with care. Sacred things are to be treated with care, and how we treat with care may have changed over the years as well, such as our becoming more reserved about discussing or advertising them. The bishop can discern these things, and in the case of the man you know, has hopefully done so!

Your bishop may also discern whether you have the spiritual gift of healing or of faith to heal, or the spiritual gift of faith to be healed. As an elder, you also have the authority to bless and act as voice whether you have these gifts or not.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Your bishop may also discern whether you have the spiritual gift of healing or of faith to heal, or the spiritual gift of faith to be healed. As an elder, you also have the authority to bless and act as voice whether you have these gifts or not.

You're so close to actually addressing my question.  And I feel at a loss to actually verbalize the question in my mind.  I appreciate your efforts.  But I simply can't ask the right question.  I hope someone can read what I've written and get the spirit of my question.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

You're so close to actually addressing my question.  And I feel at a loss to actually verbalize the question in my mind.  I appreciate your efforts.  But I simply can't ask the right question.  I hope someone can read what I've written and get the spirit of my question.

I see only two questions in the OP:

“Does every man who has been ordained to the Melchizedek priesthood have the power to heal?” I’d say yes, as long as the requirements for possessing this power are met, which are: The Lord’s will, His grace, and the faith and acceptability of the priesthood holder.

“Why do so many healing blessings produce no results?” In the context of the question of the power to heal, I would say that God does not live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of men; He is not bound by every blessing given, only by what He performs through his servants. Priesthood holders, or anyone with spiritual gifts, are not supposed to say or do whatever they want (D&C 68:4); if they do, "Amen to the priesthood or authority [or gift] of that man," which renders his performances not binding, or yielding no results, as the case may be.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CV75 said:

I see only two questions in the OP:

Like I said.  I'm having difficulty verbalizing my question.  But if you read all the examples I give and the explanations I give... maybe, someone could pick up on the question I'm intending.

thanks for trying anyway.

[skalenfehl]

We can do nothing without faith. This hearkens back to another topic of receiving the oath and covenant of the priesthood. Though a man be given power to seal on earth as the twelve disciples did during Christ's mortal mission, they lacked the faith to cast out evil spirits (Matt 17:19). One can be ordained to what portion of the Melchizedek Priesthood is offered to church today, but one must still come unto the holy order after the Son of God as with Moses and Enoch (Section 84:39-42, JST Gen 14).

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27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

 28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

 29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.

 30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course...

One can, however, have faith to do such things without yet receiving the oath and covenant of the priesthood as Enoch did in the passage above as we read in the same chapter about Melchizedek:

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26 Now Melchizedek was a man of faith, who wrought righteousness; and when a child he feared God, and stopped the mouths of lions, and quenched the violence of fire.

 27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch...

Melchizedek had faith to work miracles. And so he was approved of God to receive that higher priesthood by the calling of God's own voice. In the movie, Ephraim was given the gift to work miracles and he did so according to his faith, though he felt unworthy because of his fallen state as the bro of Jared laments before the Lord as he cried unto Him before the Lord touched the stones. Without faith we can do nothing. Moroni drives this home as he relates his fathers words:

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Moroni 7:26 And after that he came men also were saved by faith in his name; and by faith, they become the sons of God. And as surely as Christ liveth he spake these words unto our fathers, saying: Whatsoever thing ye shall ask the Father in my name, which is good, in faith believing that ye shall receive, behold, it shall be done unto you.

 27 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased because Christ hath ascended into heaven, and hath sat down on the right hand of God, to claim of the Father his rights of mercy which he hath upon the children of men?

 28 For he hath answered the ends of the law, and he claimeth all those who have faith in him; and they who have faith in him will cleave unto every good thing; wherefore he advocateth the cause of the children of men; and he dwelleth eternally in the heavens.

 29 And because he hath done this, my beloved brethren, have miracles ceased? Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither have angels ceased to minister unto the children of men...

33 And Christ hath said: If ye will have faith in me ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me.

 34 And he hath said: Repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, and have faith in me, that ye may be saved.

 35 And now, my beloved brethren, if this be the case that these things are true which I have spoken unto you, and God will show unto you, with power and great glory at the last day, that they are true, and if they are true has the day of miracles ceased?

 36 Or have angels ceased to appear unto the children of men? Or has he withheld the power of the Holy Ghost from them? Or will he, so long as time shall last, or the earth shall stand, or there shall be one man upon the face thereof to be saved?

 37 Behold I say unto you, Nay; for it is by faith that miracles are wrought; and it is by faith that angels appear and minister unto men; wherefore, if these things have ceased wo be unto the children of men, for it is because of unbelief, and all is vain.

38 For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name; wherefore, if these things have ceased, then has faith ceased also; and awful is the state of man, for they are as though there had been no redemption made.

The brother of Jared knew of his fallen state when he cried unto the Lord, being continually evil because of the Fall, which makes us by nature, wicked. But his faith was sufficient to behold Jesus' fingers, which faith became knowledge. And this knowledge brought redemption. Jesus Christ defined redemption to him. It was to be brought back into His presence. This is the fullness. This is what Moroni is talking about:

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Ether 12:21 And after the brother of Jared had beheld the finger of the Lord, because of the promise which the brother of Jared had obtained by faith, the Lord could not withhold anything from his sight; wherefore he showed him all things, for he could no longer be kept without the veil.

And what Moroni exhorted us to attain by faith:

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Ether 4:15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

This is the kind of faith Ephraim had to heal and to work miracles. Because he felt unworthy, he washed his hands every time as his own way of recognizing his unworthiness and fallen state. The early saints understood principles and doctrines that we typically do not study today. Thus they had more light and knowledge. Today we are not instructed to heal as they did back then, it's true. That does not mean we cannot do it. I have healed my wife of an affliction without anointing oil, but simply by faith, rebuking her affliction. It's not according to today's "church policy" as written in a handbook, but it is according to eternal principles and truth. One's faith is in direct proportion to one's obedience to the Lord's commandments and righteous desires. If one is not keeping the sayings and commandments of Jesus Christ, one really does not have faith. 

[Fether]

@Carborendum

just some thoughts to consider:

* Is our faith in the healing power of blessings, or in Christ's will to make us happy? I make this point because I have met people who, because of deaths in their family, believe God hates them or doesn't exist. Death is not a bad thing. Death is only the passing of one state of existence to another.

* Paul and Pres. Winford Woodruff healed men whom he never even met with a piece of fabric (https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testament-student-manual/acts/chapter-33-acts-16-20?lang=eng (search: handkerchief))

* God will not do for man what we can do for ourselves. As technology increases, the need for miraculous healings decrease because we can now do it ourselves (which is really a miracle in itself). I'm not suggesting that we don't need God, but that we no longer need to rely on him in order to survive an infected wound.

* this talk may shed some light on your question. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng

Edited February 14, 2017 by Fether