Why Teaching Fundamental Concepts Are Impossible...

[Guest]

Quote

If any man shall do His will, he shall know of the doctrine.

So many times we come across fundamental differences between us and other faiths.  We can't teach them some things, nor can they teach us some things.  All things start with A.  Why A?  Because of B... onward until you get to Z.  But at Z, there is a point where "why" simply has no answer.  You just have to "get it" or not.  It is then that DOING the Lord's will is so important.  We do it on faith.  We don't understand it.  We don't get it.  But as we do, we begin to understand.

Yet we try to spend so much time trying to rationalize, intellectualize, apply logic, cause and effect, results, etc. for some of these fundamental concepts.  Part of it is that we believe it to be a high level concept, therefore, there must be a why behind it.  Nope.  Many things that we believe to be deep doctrinal understanding is really a fundamental principle.

Quote

Thus we see that the galaxy's greatest gossips are the solar system's simple secrets.

-- Neal A. Maxwell.

I was teaching my daughter how to play the flute.  But I found that she simply didn't look at things the same way I did.  So, many of the things I tried telling her were bewildering to her.  We hired a young woman in our ward who was a musical genius (she played about 12 instruments at near professional level) to tutor her. 

One problem my daughter had was controlling the octaves vs. the volume.  I explained it with a long winded scientific description of what is happening with breath, waves, and so on.  It took about 110 seconds.  I saw the look on her face and asked the tutor to translate.

She said,"It's different."

My daughter understood perfectly and had no problems from then on.

????

[Anddenex]

My mission, and life after the mission, has taught me the following that there are three necessary components understanding God's truth:

1) Personal Desire (accountability)
2) The Spirit of Truth
3) Willingness to Act

Without these three items people will not come to know the truth. I am simplifying a more involved pattern, but this suffices for me.

[person0]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Many things that we believe to be deep doctrinal understanding is really a fundamental principle.

I have a personal phrase that I use regularly regarding 'deep doctrine', so I will quote myself here:  "There is no such thing as deep doctrine.  There is true doctrine, false doctrine, and speculation."  Many times people (especially within the Church) refer to things as deep doctrine, but in reality, they are discussing speculative things.

Another related note.  I work for a company with an amazing high level employee centered culture.  It is fun, while also engaging and challenging for most employees.  Many people make long careers here even when they could make more money elsewhere because they know they would lose the cultural aspect of the job.  One of the things that our leadership always suggests is that it is impossible to teach our company culture in a meeting or elsewhere, the only way to learn is to experience it for yourself.

[Anddenex]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

I have a personal phrase that I use regularly regarding 'deep doctrine', so I will quote myself here:  "There is no such thing as deep doctrine.  There is true doctrine, false doctrine, and speculation."  Many times people (especially within the Church) refer to things as deep doctrine, but in reality, they are discussing speculative things.

We are of one heart and one mind, and I have said the exact same thing nearly word for word. What we consider deep doctrine are simple truths that are either learned line upon line.

[Guest]

I had to go look up the exact quote.

Quote

These restored truths are not mysterious, but wondrous. These truths do not represent the gossip of the galaxies, but, instead, the universe’s simple, stunning secrets --

Neal A. Maxwell (Apr 1986 general conference)

I swear it was closer to my wording before.  But I can't seem to find a source for it.  I guess I'll have to chalk it up to bad memory.  but the universe doesn't alliterate like solar system.  He had a gift for alliteration.  Hmm... I'll keep looking.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Guest

[Anddenex]

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I had to go look up the exact quote.

I swear it was closer to my wording before.  But I can't seem to find a source for it.  I guess I'll have to chalk it up to bad memory.  but the universe doesn't alliterate like solar system.  He had a gift for alliteration.  Hmm... I'll keep looking.

Nice! Totally love this quote from Elder Maxwell.

[Rob Osborn]

5 hours ago, Anddenex said:

My mission, and life after the mission, has taught me the following that there are three necessary components understanding God's truth:

1) Personal Desire (accountability)
2) The Spirit of Truth
3) Willingness to Act

Without these three items people will not come to know the truth. I am simplifying a more involved pattern, but this suffices for me.

I might add #4 would be a willingness to completely change a mindset and relearn something you thought was truth all your life but turned out not to be.

[Anddenex]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I might add #4 would be a willingness to completely change a mindset and relearn something you thought was truth all your life but turned out not to be.

True. In my minds eye this is covered within #2 & #3. A spirit of truth will ultimately lead to changing mindsets toward truth, and then individuals must be willing to act on whatever principle of truth is revealed.

[Rob Osborn]

6 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

True. In my minds eye this is covered within #2 & #3. A spirit of truth will ultimately lead to changing mindsets toward truth, and then individuals must be willing to act on whatever principle of truth is revealed.

True. In my own experience I have acknowledged that most people retain what they believe to be true almost their whole lives without truly seeking for themselves if it really is true, the mechanism of proof, and actual confirmation after that. I think most if the time, especially with gospel knowledge, from an early age we learn to memorize things without really knowing why it may be true and then years later, even decades later, a certain subject or issue comes up that brings something into focus and they have no real answer or their testimony is greatly shaken.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[Sunday21]

I converted to the gospel by obeying the comandments. I was not sure if there was a God or if the church was true but I decided to be obedient and see what happened. Voila, through obedience, God spoke to me. 

[The Folk Prophet]

51 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I converted to the gospel by obeying the comandments. I was not sure if there was a God or if the church was true but I decided to be obedient and see what happened. Voila, through obedience, God spoke to me. 

Quadruple like!

After the trial of your faith people. After!!

[Anddenex]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I converted to the gospel by obeying the comandments. I was not sure if there was a God or if the church was true but I decided to be obedient and see what happened. Voila, through obedience, God spoke to me. 

So did my father.

[Sunday21]

@Anddenex. Sometimes the fastest route to God, is action, A lot of God's principles are difficult to explain. Sometimes, you just have to live the commandment...no one out there try this with polygamy! ?

[The Folk Prophet]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@Anddenex. Sometimes the fastest route to God, is action, A lot of God's principles are difficult to explain. Sometimes, you just have to live the commandment...no one out there try this with polygamy! ?

I'm not sure I agree with "a lot". Not sure there are many at all. Do you have examples?

What I do find to be true is that oft times mortal selfish interests get in the way of accepting things that we don't like. That's different than explaining something though. Not liking the law of chastity is very different than understanding how the procreative power is sacred and that marriage is the core unit of the gospel, etc. Not liking that we have to go do service is different than understanding that serving others helps us humble ourselves and become more like God (the ultimate servant). Even with polygamy. What's not to understand. People join in family units and procreate. Not liking the sharing of our one on one spouse time with others or being jealous of others having marital relations with our spouse doesn't make it hard to understand.

The things most claim are difficult to understand are simply getting in the way of their self-interests.