Why Do We Pray to the Father for Forgiveness?

[clbent04]

Jesus Christ atoned for our sins, yet of the Father we ask forgiveness. Why is this? Should we not be praying to Jesus for forgiveness? He was the one who took our sins upon himself. Is it not the Savior to whom we are indebted?

Maybe the argument becomes that even if God the Father chooses to build His Kingdom through His Son, we are still meant to address the Father in prayer for all things as he is the Master Designer of our existence.  But even considering this, I still don't get it.  

Is not the Father and the Son of one accord?  To address the Father is also to address the Son and vice versa, correct?  

Why would we not address Jesus Christ when asking for forgiveness?

Edited August 19, 2017 by clbent04

[person0]

40 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Why would we not address Jesus Christ when asking for forgiveness?

In 3 Nephi 19 the people actually did pray directly to Jesus.  Christ Himself gave the reason why; He was with them in their presence.  This is the only recorded scriptural event of anyone praying directly to Jesus.  During the process of this occurrence, Christ prayed to the Father on behalf of the people at least three times.  It appears there may be different circumstances to prayer etiquette when Christ is in our physical presence.  For the typical situation, a remedial example might help illustrate:

• I owe someone money.
• You pay that person the money on my behalf.
• Is it best practice to verify with you that my debt is paid and fulfilled, or the person to whom I owed the money?

Edited August 19, 2017 by person0

[clbent04]

3 minutes ago, person0 said:

For the typical situation, a remedial example might help illustrate:

• I owe someone money.
• You pay that person the money on my behalf.
• Is it best practice to verify with you that my debt is paid and fulfilled, or the person to whom I owed the money?

Once your debt is assumed by a new creditor, the former creditor is no longer relevant to address

[Snigmorder]

I never liked the debtor/creditor analogy or the bicycle analogy.

What kind of a creditor sends his debtor's own intercessor?

Every single term, condition, and law comes from the Father. Never has a term, condition, or law come from Jesus. The Man of Holiness is the God of man yesterday, today, and forever. Christ has never given to any man terms which were not laid out before the foundation of the world by the Father, the Man of Holiness.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Snigmorder

[person0]

6 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Once your debt is assumed by a new creditor, the former creditor is no longer relevant to address

I am not using the Boyd K. Packer model here.  In a real life scenario, you still would need to verify with the original creditor that the debt was satisfied, else risk that it wasn't.  Also, in the example I gave, you didn't loan me the money as a creditor, it was a free gift, I don't owe you in return.

[clbent04]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

In a real life scenario, you still would need to verify with the original creditor that the debt was satisfied, else risk that it wasn't.

Maybe you follow up one time with the former creditor to ensure the transition went smoothly, but the former creditor is no longer a relevant party thereafter

 

[zil]

2 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Maybe you follow up one time with the former creditor to ensure the transition went smoothly, but the former creditor is no longer a relevant party thereafter

 

You're thinking of transferring a debt.  @person0 is describing a scenario where someone else pays off your debt (they don't buy it from the original creditor, they just pay it - or say they will, and in such a scenario, the wise person ensures that the debt really was paid).

My answer to your question is far simpler - read the scriptures, which plainly teach that it is God to whom we pray - Christ himself instructed us to do so.  That is good enough reason for me.  (PS: I think at least part of it is that Christ is not usurping God's glory / position / authority, whether he can or not.  Christ is respecting God as God, and is acting as our mediator rather than as our God.  (Sorry, too lazy today to try explaining that better.))

[clbent04]

1 hour ago, zil said:

You're thinking of transferring a debt.  @person0 is describing a scenario where someone else pays off your debt (they don't buy it from the original creditor, they just pay it - or say they will, and in such a scenario, the wise person ensures that the debt really was paid).

It doesn't matter if Jesus Christ demands repayment from us or not for our sins he took upon himself. The fact remains that he paid the price. The Father did not atone for our sins. Jesus seems to be the relevant party to address when specifically asking for forgiveness. 

Even though I'm still somewhat confused on this topic, I find some resolution considering that in his righteousness the Son would say glory be to the Father in all things. The Father is the Master Designer of all things. He is the author of the Plan of Salvation even if the Son helped effectuate it.

[Snigmorder]

1 hour ago, clbent04 said:

It doesn't matter if Jesus Christ demands repayment from us or not for our sins he took upon himself. The fact remains that he paid the price. The Father did not atone for our sins. Jesus seems to be the relevant party to address when specifically asking for forgiveness. 

Even though I'm still somewhat confused on this topic, I find some resolution considering that in his righteousness the Son would say glory be to the Father in all things. The Father is the Master Designer of all things. He is the author of the Plan of Salvation even if the Son helped effectuate it.

Jesus was sent by the Father, Jesus is the Father's servant. We did not break Jesus's laws, therefore it is not his forgiveness we ask. 

[prisonchaplain]

"Our Father who art in heaven ... forgive us our debts." We ask forgiveness of the Father because Jesus told us to. Then there is his example of asking the Father to let the cup of punishment (the upcoming crucifixion) pass from him. The Godhead has determined that it is the Father who decides how sins are redeemed, and that they are forgiven.

Edited August 19, 2017 by prisonchaplain

[Anddenex]

I have appreciated the comments previously given, and they center around my thoughts with regard to your question.

14 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Jesus Christ atoned for our sins, yet of the Father we ask forgiveness. Why is this? Should we not be praying to Jesus for forgiveness? He was the one who took our sins upon himself. Is it not the Savior to whom we are indebted?

True, we ask the Father forgiveness because he is the law giver, and the individual who presented the plan that enables us to become like him. It is his laws we are obeying or disobeying, and our Savior was sent by the Father. We are indebted to both, the Father and Son. Without the Father their could have be no son, and without the son we could not return to the Father; although, it is the Father's kingdom we are returning to. We ask his forgiveness through Christ. A scripture I have come to love is found in Doctrine and Covenants 45: 3-5:

"Listen to him who is the advocate with the Father, who is pleading your cause before him—

"Saying: Father, behold the sufferings and death of him who did no sin, in whom thou wast well pleased; behold the blood of thy Son which was shed, the blood of him whom thou gavest that thyself might be glorified;

"Wherefore, Father, spare these my brethren that believe on my name, that they may come unto me and have everlasting life."

Our Savior even recognizes who it is that truly forgives, and I love the interaction between him and the woman taken into adultery, "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?" By which she responds, "No man, Lord," and the Jesus responded in kind, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." The interaction is wonderful as it confirms Christ did not come to condemn, but to save. His atonement, saves us, because it provides an opportunity for us to receive forgiveness, and for Christ to be our advocate.

14 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Is not the Father and the Son of one accord?  To address the Father is also to address the Son and vice versa, correct? 

The definition of being "one" doesn't mean their roles are also the same. Remember the intercessory prayer, and how we are commanded and the Lord prays that his servants will be one like Jesus and the Father are one. Our specific roles do not change when we become "one." Think about husband and wife who are also commanded to be one. Think about wards that are also commanded to be "one." As we make choices to become one, our roles do not change. A person who is one with their bishop, doesn't then assume they have the keys and stewardship to speak for the ward. A son that becomes one with his father, in a family, doesn't assume the roles of being the father of the home.

The last questions really depends on how a person is defining the notion of "addressing." Christ's role is our Savior, our advocate, with the Father; however, his role also assumes a role of "Father" as he has spiritually begotten us. He has personally taken responsibility for us. I think is very interesting that in the Terrestrial Kingdom, those who believe in a "One" God, not the Godhead (as LDS), will have their trinity who visits them - Jesus Christ - who carries roles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (This may provide some further insight as to why the Holy Ghost (as it appears) wasn't around while Christ was living, and why they prayed to him after he was resurrected).

The best example we have as to why we pray to the Father though, and not the Son, is actually the Son himself;

1) He commanded it as does the Father
2) Christ, as PC shared, showed us how we pray
3) Christ recognizes his role, as Savior and Advocate with the Father, first scripture shared, and is seen pleading our cause that the Father would forgive us. Christ is not condemning us, but saving us.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Anddenex

[CV75]

17 hours ago, clbent04 said:

Jesus Christ atoned for our sins, yet of the Father we ask forgiveness. Why is this? Should we not be praying to Jesus for forgiveness? He was the one who took our sins upon himself. Is it not the Savior to whom we are indebted?

Maybe the argument becomes that even if God the Father chooses to build His Kingdom through His Son, we are still meant to address the Father in prayer for all things as he is the Master Designer of our existence.  But even considering this, I still don't get it.  

Is not the Father and the Son of one accord?  To address the Father is also to address the Son and vice versa, correct?  

Why would we not address Jesus Christ when asking for forgiveness?

Even Jesus asked the Father to forgive us (Luke 23:24). He taught us to do likewise in the Lord’s Prayer. He taught that the Father forgives sins (Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26).

Jesus had power on earth to forgive sins (Mark 2:9), but I suppose this means to forgive in a different way than the Father forgives them.

The Father sent Jesus to the earth to bring us back into His presence. No matter who else might forgive us (and we to ask it of any we have offended), the Father needs to forgive us before we can be brought back into His presence.

The Father and the Son are of one accord, but eventually so is everyone else that is brought into the Church of the Firstborn.