Moksha Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Gospel of Thomas...If you ever get a hold of it, look for the Hymn of the Pearl, it's amazing!!!From what I understand, the GoT is considered not cannon, but can have value when read with the spirit of discernment.The Gospel of Thomas consists entirely of the sayings and parables of Jesus. Many of which did not make it into the other Gospels. Since it his sayings were not a narrative as to the divinity of Jesus, they were not deemed worthy of canonization. Still they serve as a more complete work for what Jesus said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>Gospel of Thomas...If you ever get a hold of it, look for the Hymn of the Pearl, it's amazing!!!From what I understand, the GoT is considered not cannon, but can have value when read with the spirit of discernment.The Gospel of Thomas and just about every other non-canoninical (sp?) work can be found here:http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/If you are interested in reading any and every great Christian work, including the works of the 5 apostolic fathers and 9 early apologists, they can be found here:http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.i.htmlThis particular link is to volume 1 in a ten volume series...all of which are on this site...I am currently reading the letters of Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch...fascinating...The 1st Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians I found to be particularly good and it is filled with the Spirit...In part of it (chapt 45) he reprimands the Corinthians for expelling two bishops who had executed their duties with honor due to some unnamed controversy that was occuring locally...in chapter 55 he talks about the willing sacrifices of the early Christians, including one woman who sold herself into servitude in order to help feed the poor...pretty amazing stuff...By the way, Clement is thought to be a companion of Paul...Thought some people might be interested in the links...I find the Gospel of James most interesting - much of the tradition about Mary (the mother of Jesus) Joseph, John the Baptist and Jesus as a baby comes from this book. According to tradition it was written by James the older step brother of Jesus and Apostle and also the auther of the book of James in the Bible.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Do you guys have an opinion on the Gospel of Mary, or of Peter's chastisement of her in the Gospel of Thomas? I have not even a whiff of knowledge about this period. All I know is what I've watched on PBS. So, any thoughts? Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Do you guys have an opinion on the Gospel of Mary, or of Peter's chastisement of her in the Gospel of Thomas?I have not even a whiff of knowledge about this period. All I know is what I've watched on PBS. So, any thoughts?ElphabaI am not sure but I think you are referring to the Gospel of the birth of Mary. According to ancient tradition this scripture was written by St Matthew; the same that wrote one of the Gospels currently used in the New Testament. Like so many of the ancient writings and scriptures that we have there are multiple versions of this text.There is some interesting stuff about Mary and Joseph. For example according to this document Joseph had sons older than Mary and did not think he should marry her. There are some things that seem to explain some of the questions one might have about Mary and Elisabeth. I would recommend that this book be read to help understand some of the things going on during that time period. It helps to clarify the context of some New Testament teachings.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elphaba Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I am not sure but I think you are referring to the Gospel of the birth of Mary.No, I'm talking about the Gospel of Mary, or in a reference I found it's called The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene. It is part of the Nag Hammadi library.If I understand it correctly, Mary says she is one of Jesus' apostles, and that Peter is angry that a woman would hold this position. Additionally, in the Gospel of Thomas, there is a short section where Peter expresses anger at Mary at her insistence that her position is more than just a follower of Jesus. Basically, my understanding is that, according to these two gospels, Mary considered herself an apostle, and Peter was angry about this. In fact, I've heard Peter may have started the rumor that Mary was a prostitute to keep her from holding the apostleship. I'm not sure I have these exactly right, and may even have pieces that are completely wrong. I welcome clarification from anyone who knows these particular scriptures. I also would like to hear anyone's thoughts.Elphaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adomini22 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>I am not sure but I think you are referring to the Gospel of the birth of Mary.No, I'm talking about the Gospel of Mary, or in a reference I found it's called The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene. It is part of the Nag Hammadi library.If I understand it correctly, Mary says she is one of Jesus' apostles, and that Peter is angry that a woman would hold this position. Additionally, in the Gospel of Thomas, there is a short section where Peter expresses anger at Mary at her insistence that her position is more than just a follower of Jesus. Basically, my understanding is that, according to these two gospels, Mary considered herself an apostle, and Peter was angry about this. In fact, I've heard Peter may have started the rumor that Mary was a prostitute to keep her from holding the apostleship. I'm not sure I have these exactly right, and may even have pieces that are completely wrong. I welcome clarification from anyone who knows these particular scriptures. I also would like to hear anyone's thoughts.ElphabaI have read in a book by Hugh Nibley (I have 3 books of his, and cant remember which is the one I read this in), but it says that Jesus was affectionate openly towards mary, and Peter thought that was inappropriate. Jesus then taught him of celestial marraige, and that marraige is by God, and needed to enter the CK, etc. Hugh Nibley has alot of stuff on Gospel of Adam, Enoch, mary, Abraham, etc. All of these writings were found in the last 100 years or so, and are not found anywhere in our modern day scriptures. Fun stuff to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snipe123 Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>I am not sure but I think you are referring to the Gospel of the birth of Mary.No, I'm talking about the Gospel of Mary, or in a reference I found it's called The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene. It is part of the Nag Hammadi library.If I understand it correctly, Mary says she is one of Jesus' apostles, and that Peter is angry that a woman would hold this position. Additionally, in the Gospel of Thomas, there is a short section where Peter expresses anger at Mary at her insistence that her position is more than just a follower of Jesus. Basically, my understanding is that, according to these two gospels, Mary considered herself an apostle, and Peter was angry about this. In fact, I've heard Peter may have started the rumor that Mary was a prostitute to keep her from holding the apostleship. I'm not sure I have these exactly right, and may even have pieces that are completely wrong. I welcome clarification from anyone who knows these particular scriptures. I also would like to hear anyone's thoughts.ElphabaI have read in a book by Hugh Nibley (I have 3 books of his, and cant remember which is the one I read this in), but it says that Jesus was affectionate openly towards mary, and Peter thought that was inappropriate. Jesus then taught him of celestial marraige, and that marraige is by God, and needed to enter the CK, etc. Hugh Nibley has alot of stuff on Gospel of Adam, Enoch, mary, Abraham, etc. All of these writings were found in the last 100 years or so, and are not found anywhere in our modern day scriptures. Fun stuff to read.The book is called: Mormonism and early Christianity...(I have his collected works except his two newest ones published...I love Hugh Nibley by the way and cannot say enough good about him...just finished his memoirs written by he and his son on his war experience in WWII...Very remarkable story and I highly recomend the book...) Back to Mormonism and Early CHristianity, In one chapter on the development of the early Christian prayer circle...Mary instructs the apostles to form in a circle in which they support eachothers upraised hands...She then tells Peter (in something of a motherly rebuking fashion...kinda like "here peter, do your duty...") to say a prayer that the members of the circle are supposed to repeat...Part of which they ask God to hear them three times...etc...In other sources quoted in the chapter, The APostles are questioning one another on the manner in which Mary conceived...they finally convince Peter to go and ask Mary, and he reluctantly goes...Mary responds by telling him as much as she is able...The point I suppose is that Mary is an important figure in these sources, but they do not refer to her as an apostle, but she is obviously very important to the Apostles themselves and is highly revered and viewed as something of a mystery...The book is very good...Has a great chapter on the early Christian practice of baptism for the dead as well...Edit: Just realized you guys were not talking about Mary mother of Jesus, but Mary friend and companion of Jesus, so I guess we can scratch the above paragraph... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly3278 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 The "Gospel of Thomas" is just another example of evidence of the Great Apostasy if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 The "Gospel of Thomas" is just another example of evidence of the Great Apostasy if you ask me.The sayings of Jesus constitute apostasy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>The "Gospel of Thomas" is just another example of evidence of the Great Apostasy if you ask me.The sayings of Jesus constitute apostasy?Does the Church recognize the Gospel of Thomas as containing the actual sayins of Jesus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'>The "Gospel of Thomas" is just another example of evidence of the Great Apostasy if you ask me.The sayings of Jesus constitute apostasy?Does the Church recognize the Gospel of Thomas as containing the actual sayings of Jesus?I am certain they recognize many of them from the four canonized Gospels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Perhaps it is those alleged sayings of Jesus not found in the four gospels that might lead one to apostasy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moksha Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Perhaps it is those alleged sayings of Jesus not found in the four gospels that might lead one to apostasy?You mean like this: (30) Jesus said, "Where there are three gods, they are gods. Where there are two or one, I am with him." or like this:48) Jesus said, "If two make peace with each other in this one house, they will say to the mountain, 'Move Away,' and it will move away." (49) Jesus said, "Blessed are the solitary and elect, for you will find the kingdom. For you are from it, and to it you will return." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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