Is Satan a title?

[Fether]

I idea that God being a title and not a name has been something I have known and been comfortable with for a while, but a new concept came to my mind today and that is with Satan.

his initial name was Lucifer and he became Satan. Moses 4:1 says “And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me...”

Thoughts?

[zil]

5 minutes ago, Fether said:

his initial name was Lucifer and he became Satan. Moses 4:1 says “And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me...”

I think the use of "that" here is simply emphatic in nature, though it also serves to distinguish as in, "that guy you were just ordering about".

That (ha) said, it is my understanding that "satan",  were it translated into English, would be "accuser" - though the Bible Dictionary says "The Slanderer".  And dictionary.com says:

Quote

before 900; Middle English, Old English < Late Latin < Greek Satân, Satán < Hebrew śātān adversary

So, yeah, title.

[zil]

Perhaps Satan and his followers have the opposite of "divine investiture of authority" (only they call it "demonic investiture of authority"), so that any number of minions could speak as if they were Satan, thus, that Satan.

[Fether]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

Perhaps Satan and his followers have the opposite of "divine investiture of authority" (only they call it "demonic investiture of authority"), so that any number of minions could speak as if they were Satan, thus, that Satan.

Which brings up a different question! Does Satan have more authority or power than other cast out spirits???

[zil]

2 minutes ago, Fether said:

Which brings up a different question! Does Satan have more authority or power than other cast out spirits???

Well, I always figured he was their leader, so you'd think so, but that's just a guess.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/devil?lang=eng

[Vort]

28 minutes ago, Fether said:

his initial name was Lucifer and he became Satan. Moses 4:1 says “And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me...”

Thoughts?

"Lucifer" was no more (or less) his "name" than "Satan" is now. "Lucifer" means "light-bearer", which to my eyes looks pretty obviously like a title.

Of course, I am far from convinced that our current 21st-century US usage of names, as identification tags largely disconnected from any underlying meaning of the word, exists in the eternities.

[zil]

14 minutes ago, Vort said:

Of course, I am far from convinced that our current 21st-century US usage of names, as identification tags largely disconnected from any underlying meaning of the word, exists in the eternities.

And it's never too soon to start coming up with your Hollywood-Native-American-esque name ideas.

~ She Who Is Off To Sleep

(Not to be confused with She Who Is Oft Asleep.)

[Just_A_Guy]

IIRC, in the courts of ancient Persian kings there was supposedly a figure called “hasatan” whose job, on the king’s orders, was to test the loyalty of court members by subtly trying to entrap them into speaking treason against the king.  Certain Old Testament authors (including, notably, the author of Job) probably perceived “Satan” primarily through this lens.  

(Random factoid:  apparently modern Jews don’t identify Satan with the serpent in the Garden of Eden; and as near as Biblical scholars can tell, neither did ancient Jews. (Unless one counts Lehi’s family.)  It was the early Christians who made/restored that particular connection.)

Moses, of course, was much earlier than the Persians; but if the ancient Egyptians in whose courts Moses was raised did something similar—Moses may have initially viewed the “Satan” he encountered in Moses 1 as a similarly generic role; which led to God’s offering the further knowledge, in chapter 4, that the accuser who traumatized Moses was in fact a genuine rebel and not merely some divine messenger sent to try to trip Moses up.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[brlenox]

12 hours ago, Fether said:

I idea that God being a title and not a name has been something I have known and been comfortable with for a while, but a new concept came to my mind today and that is with Satan.

his initial name was Lucifer and he became Satan. Moses 4:1 says “And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me...”

Thoughts?

An interesting note, in the temple he is referred to as Lucifer until the first moment after he is cast out from Fathers presence when he is known by a new name.  Thereafter he is known as Satan.  When we cast out demons or such from those afflicted we typically command Satan to depart.  However, it is not generally him that is present but it is one of them that have taken his name upon them. There are other similarities that one might consider... 

Edited January 26, 2018 by brlenox

[Guest]

On 1/25/2018 at 9:26 PM, zil said:

And it's never too soon to start coming up with your Hollywood-Native-American-esque name ideas.

~ She Who Is Off To Sleep

(Not to be confused with She Who Is Oft Asleep.)

Confucius say: She who is off to sleep can expect to be rested by morning.

-- He who talks in his sleep.

I am Loquacious of Borg.  Prepare to be droned.

[Guest]

On 1/25/2018 at 8:40 PM, Fether said:

I idea that God being a title and not a name has been something I have known and been comfortable with for a while, but a new concept came to my mind today and that is with Satan.

his initial name was Lucifer and he became Satan. Moses 4:1 says “And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me...”

Thoughts?

"Satan" literally means "He who plots against."  Historically speaking, in early Hebrew texts it was not any particular being.  It was someone who held an adversarial role.  The idea of a particular being who held the title as THE Satan came around 600 to 500 BC.

In Latter-Day revelation we see that a particular being held the primary role of leading those of Father's children against the Plan of Salvation.  Thus, he is indeed a specific individual.

That said, I highly doubt that every time we feel an unearthly temptation or that seduction to do evil, that we're actually being acted on by THE one and only Satan.  It's just that we don't have names for any other devils.  This is in contrast with the Lord who has sent angels with specific names or name-titles.  Gabriel, Elias, Michael, etc.  While they filled the role that the Lord would have done in the same situation, they were obviously different beings because we know their names.

[zil]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That said, I highly doubt that every time we feel an unearthly temptation or that seduction to do evil, that we're actually being acted on by THE one and only Satan.  It's just that we don't have names for any other devils.  This is in contrast with the Lord who has sent angels with specific names or name-titles.  Gabriel, Elias, Michael, etc.  While they filled the role that the Lord would have done in the same situation, they were obviously different beings because we know their names.

Meanwhile, those who do evil have their names blotted out.  There's something to ponder for a while.