Lack of Imagination is the Disease. Books are the Cure.

[unixknight]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I rather like the fact that it requires some calculation.  It's really motivating my kids to learn to do math in their heads.

Some calculation is one thing.  I agree.  The problem with these games that try to be hyper realistic is that they try to take into account so many variables that it bogs down gameplay.  

RPGs can be a fantastic method of getting practice with everything from math, vocabulary, a little history even... But they need to be engaging or they may as well be a classroom lesson.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Some calculation is one thing.  I agree.  The problem with these games that try to be hyper realistic is that they try to take into account so many variables that it bogs down gameplay.  

RPGs can be a fantastic method of getting practice with everything from math, vocabulary, a little history even... But they need to be engaging or they may as well be a classroom lesson.

I was referring to the level of calculation from D&D v3.  Many common RPGs require that level of calculation.  Most people can do about that level in their heads.

ANECDOTE:

I was in a bookstore that caters to homeschoolers. I overheard a conversation from a couple of mothers.  One said that her 16 year old came back from his first day at work and reported that he got promoted to assistant manager.  The mother was surprised at that -- on his first day of work... ever -- so she asked how that happened.

The power had gone out.  Cash registers stopped working.  He was the only one who could take cash, and make change in his head.

[unixknight]

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I was referring to the level of calculation from D&D v3.  Many common RPGs require that level of calculation.  Most people can do about that level in their heads.

ANECDOTE:

I was in a bookstore that caters to homeschoolers. I overheard a conversation from a couple of mothers.  One said that her 16 year old came back from his first day at work and reported that he got promoted to assistant manager.  The mother was surprised at that -- on his first day of work... ever -- so she asked how that happened.

The power had gone out.  Cash registers stopped working.  He was the only one who could take cash, and make change in his head.

Gotcha.  You're right. 

When my current group first started we were using 3rd Edition.  As you know, Armor Class is calculated by the following formula (Writing it out for those who don't know):

10 + (Dexterity Bonus) + (Armor Bonus) + (Misc).  From that, you get the number an opponent needs to roll on a D20 to successfully attack  the character.

Well, at one point we were going to run a module that was written for 1st and 2nd Edition.  I decided the best way to do this was to get the players to roll up 2nd Edition characters so I could leave the module itself unmodified.  In 1st and 2nd Edition, here's how Armor Class is derived:

10 - (Dexterity Bonus) - (Armor Bonus) - (Misc).  An attacker then subtracts that number from their THAC0* to get the number they need to successfully attack the target.  (Yes, an Armor Class can be negative in those editions.)

My players informed me that this was too difficult, and that 3rd Edition was far, far easier.  😡

(*THAC0 means "To Hit Armor Class 0")

[zil]

47 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I was in a bookstore that caters to homeschoolers. I overheard a conversation from a couple of mothers.  One said that her 16 year old came back from his first day at work and reported that he got promoted to assistant manager.  The mother was surprised at that -- on his first day of work... ever -- so she asked how that happened.

The power had gone out.  Cash registers stopped working.  He was the only one who could take cash, and make change in his head.

The complete lack of this ability in humans is staggering (and depressing) to me - another example of humans choosing to be dependent on machines.

I only use cash in physical stores.  I hate having coins in my pocket, so I will give the cashier that quantity of coin will will result in the smallest amount of coin returned to me (sometimes I give the exact amount, sometimes I'll give 8 cents (for example) to avoid getting pennies and / or nickles back, for example).  This often confuses the life out of cashiers.  I always voice what I am giving them and give them the coin first - this seems to help.  Most are smart enough to just punch what I gave them into the machine and let it figure out the change.

My dad once told me that he would often ask a cashier if he got a discount for paying the exact amount (so they didn't have to make change).  In all his asking to that point, only one had replied that if they gave him a discount, it wouldn't be the exact amount any more.  Thereafter I started trying the experiment, and have had the same result - only one person caught on.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, zil said:

The complete lack of this ability in humans is staggering (and depressing) to me - another example of humans choosing to be dependent on machines.

I only use cash in physical stores.  I hate having coins in my pocket, so I will give the cashier that quantity of coin will will result in the smallest amount of coin returned to me (sometimes I give the exact amount, sometimes I'll give 8 cents (for example) to avoid getting pennies and / or nickles back, for example).  This often confuses the life out of cashiers.  I always voice what I am giving them and give them the coin first - this seems to help.  Most are smart enough to just punch what I gave them into the machine and let it figure out the change.

My dad once told me that he would often ask a cashier if he got a discount for paying the exact amount (so they didn't have to make change).  In all his asking to that point, only one had replied that if they gave him a discount, it wouldn't be the exact amount any more.  Thereafter I started trying the experiment, and have had the same result - only one person caught on.

I understand.  I take the practice of giving change so I can get dollars back.  e.g.  If the total is $10.58 I will give $11.58 so I can get one dollar change.  However, I have on a few occasions had someone give me back my 58 cents, enter $11.00 in the register, and hand over the remaining change.  SMH.

[zil]

11 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I understand.  I take the practice of giving change so I can get dollars back.  e.g.  If the total is $10.58 I will give $11.58 so I can get one dollar change.  However, I have on a few occasions had someone give me back my 58 cents, enter $11.00 in the register, and hand over the remaining change.  SMH.

Yes.  I tend to decline and tell them I gave them the .58 so I don't get coin back.  I've also had cashiers interrupt my thought trying to tell me how much to give them as if I was having a hard time figuring it out.  I have to explain what I'm doing and that they should leave me alone.  This is one reason I like self-checkout - while they ask me idiotic questions that they know the answer to (like whether I've scanned my "discount card"), they don't try to tell me which of my coins and bills I should use to pay them (though they do urge me, indirectly, to pay faster and hurry up and take my stuff, my receipt, and my change and leave).

[MrShorty]

You guys force me to bring out Dilbert: http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-20

Don't you just love engineers?

[Guest]

On 5/13/2018 at 7:51 PM, MrShorty said:

You guys force me to bring out Dilbert: http://dilbert.com/strip/1993-03-20

Don't you just love engineers?

I resemble that remark.  I'll have to share an anecdote.

I had heard the term "quick change artists" referring to the magic show type of people.  I hadn't heard about the scammers who go to a cash register asking for change for a dollar.  But I met one without realizing it.  He just didn't know who he was dealing with until a full minute or two into the exchange.

He gave me some unusual amount of money for the bill that popped up on the register.  I gave him the appropriate change.  He said I didn't.  I told him I had.  He told me what he gave me.  I recounted the quantity of each bill and each coin he gave me and I did the math to come up with the total.

Back and forth we went over the numbers and he kept trying to trip me up.  But he couldn't.  So, he switched tactics and asked to give him a dollar for a bunch of change and then combine that with other dollars for a larger denomination....  This process went on for a while, each time he claimed an incorrect amount of change and an incorrect total, with me correcting him and arguing with him.

All the time, i was just thinking that the guy was just bad at math.  It never occurred to me that he was doing it on purpose just to mess me up.  Eventually, when he saw me unmoving and unflappable in my calculations, he gathered his stuff and left.

Years later I heard about the financial "quick change artists."  That exchange was brought back to my memory.  Facepalm.  So, that's what that was about.

[Midwest LDS]

I love playing Dungeons and Dragons. I got my start playing computerized 2nd ed with Baldur's Gate 2, and I met all of my high school friends playing 3rd and 3.5. I really enjoy every part if it from escaping into far off lands full of adventure to cracking jokes and quoting movies with my friends. It truly is the king of games. I'm currently running a duel wielding 5th ed ranger.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Midwest LDS

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, Midwest LDS said:

I love playing Dungeons and Dragons. I got my start playing computerized 2nd ed with Baldur's Gate 2, and I met all of my high school friends playing 3rd and 3.5. I really enjoy every part if it from escaping into far off lands full of adventure to cracking jokes and quoting movies with my friends. It truly is the king of games. I'm currently running a duel wielding 5th ed ranger.

I understand it a little better now from conversations here and hearing some of the youth play it, but I don't think I'll ever really be able to wrap my head around it. 

When I was a kid we didn't use math to play different things.  We played cowboys and Indians with wood guns and sticks...though normally it was the unfortunate ones who got to play the Indians because everyone wanted to play the Cowboys instead.  We also played army and war, normally with the same items but sides were a little more even.

On math, everyone should be able to do the math in their head, at least enough to make change.

[SilentOne]

8 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

On math, everyone should be able to do the math in their head, at least enough to make change.

I was taught a method of making change where you barely have to do math at all. It would have to be modified slightly for Carb and Dilbert, but the principles remain the same.

Starting from the price of the item, count out pennies until you get to a number of cents divisible by 5. Then count out nickel/dimes until you get to .25, .50, .75, or .00. Add quarters as needed until you get to a full dollar amount. Then count the bills as you work up to the amount they paid.

[unixknight]

On 5/16/2018 at 3:49 PM, JohnsonJones said:

 When I was a kid we didn't use math to play different things.  We played cowboys and Indians with wood guns and sticks.

Yeah the purpose of the math and rules was to deal with the problem of 

"Peeyow peeyow I got you!!!!!"

"Nuh-uh you missed!!!"