The Road to Hell is Paved with Bad Intentions

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

My desire to finish the next quest in Fallout 4 sometimes is stronger than my desire to read scriptures. That morning when I got up, I intended to read scriptures, but I didn’t when the day finished. In such a scenario, I got closer to hell than to heaven.

So, truthfully, your intentions were really to put aside God for Fallout 4. Your true intentions make up where your heart really was and is that led you towards your true desired intention that day. If your true intentions were to really read the scriptures that's what you would have really done. You found out though your true intentions, regardless of what perception you thought you had, we're really to play Fallout 4. 

[Rob Osborn]

28 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

Socialism always has good intentions. See where it leads in every case, so far. 

The ideals of socialism varry. Socialism, by nature, similar to social organizations within our own government, is easily corrupted by evil conspiring men. Men with bad intentions usurp control within it and abuse it. In government that usurping  often turns it into a dictatorship. 

[Anddenex]

We will probably agree to disagree with this phrase. I, personally, like the phrase, as it accurately delivers its point. Individuals have provided thoughts and I believe mine are similar as I see three points this phrase highlights:

1) Faith without works is dead. Our intentions, no matter how good they are, do not have much merit unless we have actions that are giving evidence to our good intentions.

2) The world right now is full of "good" people, at least in their own mind and how they interpret good. This is similar to the scripture where people are ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of the truth (How is one ever learning but never coming coming to the knowledge of truth). These are people who are filled with "good intentions" but have never become "good".  Their whole lives revolved around saving whales (a good intention and a good dead), or lived with apes, while rejecting the "good" that will truly bless their lives. They have forgotten the one who can destroy their soul (hell).

3) The irony doesn't miss me either with this phrase. A person with "good intentions" should find themselves delivered from hell -- surely. Thus, how "good" were their intentions in the first place? Reminds me of the phrase, "Lord, Lord...." in scripture, as well as the five unwise virgins who missed the bride groom but had "good intentions" of being there, but were unprepared.

I, personally, would not conflate Godly desire with good intentions; although, at times good intentions are godly desires. They should not always be combined into "one' as good intentions are not always godly desires.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Anddenex

[Rob Osborn]

26 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

They should not always be combined into "one' as good intentions are not always godly desires.

Sounds like moral relativism. I would argue however that from God's perspective, of which we all should be aspiring too, that being "good" is being virtuous. The scriptures tell us that only God or godly things are ""good". 

[Anddenex]

3 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Sounds like moral relativism. I would argue however that from God's perspective, of which we all should be aspiring too, that being "good" is being virtuous. The scriptures tell us that only God or godly things are ""good". 

Not really, as I opened with, we will agree to disagree. The scriptures specify all things "good" come from God, this doesn't automatically make something "good" a godly desire. I can save the whales every day of my life (a good thing), doesn't mean this is a godly desire to save the whales. If I am saving whales, a "good" thing,  while rejecting Christ -- where would I likely end up?

 

[Guest MormonGator]

I'm not sure your intentions matter. Your actions do

[Rob Osborn]

8 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Not really, as I opened with, we will agree to disagree. The scriptures specify all things "good" come from God, this doesn't automatically make something "good" a godly desire. I can save the whales every day of my life (a good thing), doesn't mean this is a godly desire to save the whales. If I am saving whales, a "good" thing,  while rejecting Christ -- where would I likely end up?

 

Saving whales is a separate act from rejecting Christ. It's two separate acts. Put another way- saving whales and the desire to do good doesn't lead one to reject Christ. No good fruits come from Satan.

[Traveler]

Many think that their efforts to "preach" the gospel justifies their holier than thou attitude towards others.  If we are not the best example possible example of love and compassion in what we teach as gospel principles - are we really teaching gospel principles or are we just making sounds - or as Paul said, "Sounding brass or a tinkling symbol".   It is possible that even the great "bringer of light" could fall to the lowest depths of hell with the best self seeming intentions but because of pride that they are right and others should listen - not to follow their arrogant example but their words that are perfectly aligned with the wisdom of scripture.  

And yet the road to hell is paved - but not with the initial intent of what seems bad but thinking (in their pride) that their intent is good and justified by what scriptures teach.  -  Another example, the ancient Pharassies.  And one other example - when Jesus said that one would betray him - rather than observing that Judas had been acting strange as of late - asked instead - L-rd is it I?

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Traveler said:

Many think that their efforts to "preach" the gospel justifies their holier than thou attitude towards others

1000% correct. 

[Lost Boy]

I have mostly heard this phrase associated in the political realm.

For instance giving handouts to poor people.  The thought is that you are doing good, but the effect is that you create an individual that now relies on handouts instead of working for a living.

One has the intention to good, but through those "good" intentions ultimately bad things occur.

The other way this phrase is use is to denote when people have good intentions, but don't act on them.

[Rob Osborn]

14 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

I have mostly heard this phrase associated in the political realm.

For instance giving handouts to poor people.  The thought is that you are doing good, but the effect is that you create an individual that now relies on handouts instead of working for a living.

One has the intention to good, but through those "good" intentions ultimately bad things occur.

The other way this phrase is use is to denote when people have good intentions, but don't act on them.

This is often how I have heard it too. Under close inspection though I am suspect that it doesn't really work. The question I keep asking myself is if it is a truly an "intention" if I never even lift a finger to do anything towards that intended goal? For instance- I have had intentions of planting grass in my backyard before I moved. It isn't going to happen now. But, at various times in the past I did do work to prepare for planting grass. Looking back I think it's true that I had intentions only because I did something towards that goal. I can't just say I intend to plant grass but then do absolutely nothing to make it happen which includes no planning or goal or date. It's just a lie isn't it?

[person0]

I think Rob's point comes back to the question, 'what counts as good intentions?'  Socialism was given as an example in an earlier post; do we count the intention of the person who wants socialism in hopes to alleviate poverty?; or do we count the person promoting it who seeks power and glory from the masses who agree/accept the idea?; or do we count Satan's intention to create both a lazy society as well as a power hungry upper class?  Whichever way you go, only the uneducated individual who expects a positive outcome might be said to have so called 'good intentions', when in reality, there was never any good involved.

If what is good is a fixed and absolute truth known to the Father, then 'good intentions' must originate from the Father as well.  If someones intent behind supporting abortion is to protect the potential mother from hardship, is that actually a good intention?  Or is the good intention found in the individual who wants the mother to give birth and learn from her hardship?

Does making things easier and less burdensome count as a good intention, or can that sometimes be an evil intention?  With so called 'good intentions' someone might have prevented Christ from being crucified and thus frustrated the entire plan of salvation; so then is the intention actually good?

[Lost Boy]

41 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

This is often how I have heard it too. Under close inspection though I am suspect that it doesn't really work. The question I keep asking myself is if it is a truly an "intention" if I never even lift a finger to do anything towards that intended goal? For instance- I have had intentions of planting grass in my backyard before I moved. It isn't going to happen now. But, at various times in the past I did do work to prepare for planting grass. Looking back I think it's true that I had intentions only because I did something towards that goal. I can't just say I intend to plant grass but then do absolutely nothing to make it happen which includes no planning or goal or date. It's just a lie isn't it?

So to continue that....   say you have the intention to plant the grass.  You go prepare the soil... till it up and what not, and then don't get around to planting.  Now you have created a situation where the soil is going to grow weeds much easier than had you done nothing at all.

Good intentions leading to worse outcomes.  

[Lost Boy]

Just now, person0 said:

I think Rob's point comes back to the question, 'what counts as good intentions?'  Socialism was given as an example in an earlier post; do we count the intention of the person who wants socialism in hopes to alleviate poverty?; or do we count the person promoting it who seeks power and glory from the masses who agree/accept the idea?; or do we count Satan's intention to create both a lazy society as well as a power hungry upper class?  Whichever way you go, only the uneducated individual who expects a positive outcome might be said to have so called 'good intentions', when in reality, there was never any good involved.

If what is good is a fixed and absolute truth known to the Father, then 'good intentions' must originate from the Father as well.  If someones intent behind supporting abortion is to protect the potential mother from hardship, is that actually a good intention?  Or is the good intention found in the individual who wants the mother to give birth and learn from her hardship?

Does making things easier and less burdensome count as a good intention, or can that sometimes be an evil intention?  With so called 'good intentions' someone might have prevented Christ from being crucified and thus frustrated the entire plan of salvation; so then is the intention actually good?

The intention is good, but the thought process behind it is often far from complete. 

Socialism is not evil.  However, poor implementation of socialism can have really bad consequences.  But so can bad implementations of capitalism...  The great depression was capitalism gone bad.

Many of the Scandinavian countries where they have quite a few socialistic programs have greatly reduced poverty, have increased education and are rated as some of the best places on Earth to live.

Our ancestors had hardships...  Most of us have not.  They had to work far more hours than we did.   Childhood diseases would take the lives of many children or leave them crippled.  No plumbing, etc.  Would you prefer to live the life of someone 150 years ago, or are you ok with you current "hardships?"

[Traveler]

If failed (to any degree or for any reason) despite good intention is somehow an indication of actual evil intention - Who among us is truly repentant and worthy of G-d's forgiveness?

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

So to continue that....   say you have the intention to plant the grass.  You go prepare the soil... till it up and what not, and then don't get around to planting.  Now you have created a situation where the soil is going to grow weeds much easier than had you done nothing at all.

Good intentions leading to worse outcomes.  

I guess you could say that about any uncompleted task to some degree. But, does the initial intention lead to evil?

Edited July 24, 2018 by Rob Osborn

[Lost Boy]

22 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I guess you could say that about any uncompleted task to some degree. But, does the initial intention lead to evil?

The initial intention was not evil.  It was the lack of action that let it become so.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

The initial intention was not evil.  It was the lack of action that let it become so.

I guess it could be said that at some point the result may become evil because of unintentional consequences. But Im not sure how it fits in with the phrase. Its kind of an oxymoron in that it implies that evil is a result of good intentions.

[Guest Scott]

Quote

I have never liked the English proverb- "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Properly defining the phrase "good intentions" should mean "godly desire". 

 

First of all, it isn't an English proverb.   It's a French proverb that was translated into English.

As far as known the earliest version of the saying is L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontes ou desirs.    Such phrase was spoken by St Bernard of Clairvaux and was made almost 900 years ago.   

It basically means that if you have good desires but don't act on them that you will go to hell.

Some English versions indicate that it means that sometimes good intentions have lead to terrible things, but this was not the original meaning of the phrase.  

[Rob Osborn]

27 minutes ago, Scott said:

 

First of all, it isn't an English proverb.   It's a French proverb that was translated into English.

As far as known the earliest version of the saying is L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontes ou desirs.    Such phrase was spoken by St Bernard of Clairvaux and was made almost 900 years ago.   

It basically means that if you have good desires but don't act on them that you will go to hell.

Some English versions indicate that it means that sometimes good intentions have lead to terrible things, but this was not the original meaning of the phrase.  

Yeah, I think we should ditch it as it doesn't apply in our language. The modern interpretation has us believe to be careful because good deeds can lead one to hell. It's all baloney.

[Guest Scott]

13 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Yeah, I think we should ditch it as it doesn't apply in our language. The modern interpretation has us believe to be careful because good deeds can lead one to hell. It's all baloney.

I agree, but it depends on how you look at the statement.

One modern example is that when something bad happens to someone, some people might be inclined to say "We're sending you are thoughts and prayers", but many stop there and don't do anything to help the situation.

Sending thoughts and prayers can be looked at as a good intention, but if that's all you ever do, you really aren't doing any good.

God wants actions, not just professed intentions.   At least that's how I look at it.  

Edited July 25, 2018 by Scott

[Jersey Boy]

On 7/23/2018 at 2:38 PM, Rob Osborn said:

I have never liked the English proverb- "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Properly defining the phrase "good intentions" should mean "godly desire". The problem with the original phrase is that it can lead people in the false belief that a godly desire can lead one into hell. Nonsense! Good intentions or godlike desire is not how the devil works. Satan tries, according to mans weakness and sinful nature, to take away ones godly desire, diminishes or even squashes it out and replaces in its spot bad intentions or devilish desires. Everything the Nazis did for instance with the extermination of the Jews was solely based on bad intentions.

According to some investigation I’ve done on this subject, the original saying simply said “hell is full of good intentions.” The paving of the road part was added later and is of a much more recent vintage.

A good way of illustrating the meaning of the original form of the phrase ‘hell is full of good intentions’ would be to point out that the war in heaven was fought over the idea that everyone should be saved without a single soul being cast into outer darkness as a son of perdition. Such an idea certainly sounds like a very good and well-intended idea, for what decent person wouldn’t want to see every spirit son and daughter of God saved, and not a single beloved brother or sister left behind to dwell in a state of never ending misery? This idea of extending mercy to everyone, regardless of their willingness or desire to be saved, at first blush certainly sounds like a very appealing and fair-minded idea. But the problem is that because existence can only be affirmed upon the immutable principle of diametric opposition in all things, Lucifer’s very appealing and merciful sounding plan cannot work and is, paradoxically, the very mechanism whereby hell itself is created. 

A more temporal example of the same principle in action is seen in the well-intentioned and seemingly compassionate idea that unwed mothers should, without having to work, be given the money needed to keep a roof over her fatherless family’s heads, with sufficient funds to clothe, feed and educated her children. But as well-intentioned, kind and compassionate as this idea may appear, the program’s disastrous unintended negative consequences have ultimately proven to be destructive of the institution of marriage, family, good child rearing and financially sound and solvent government. 

But as far as the meaning of the more modern version of the saying is concerned, ‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions,’ it’s simply another way of saying that ‘the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak,’ or that ‘faith without works is dead.’ How many of us have attended a particularly inspiring church meeting where, in the midst of the highly motivating spiritual atmosphere, we fervently and sincerely resolve to turn over a new leaf and, for example, visit and truly help the families we’ve been assigned to minister to, but when we get home we keep saying to ourselves  “I’ll do it tomorrow” until one, two, then three months go by without following through on any of the actions we so sincerely promised to take. James put it this way:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (James 1)

Edited July 25, 2018 by Jersey Boy

[Rob Osborn]

4 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

According to some investigation I’ve done on this subject, the original saying simply said “hell is full of good intentions.” The paving of the road part was added later and is of a much more recent vintage.

A good way of illustrating the meaning of the original form of the phrase ‘hell is full of good intentions’ would be to point out that the war in heaven was fought over the idea that everyone should be saved without a single soul being cast into outer darkness as a son of perdition. Such an idea certainly sounds like a very good and well-intended idea, for what decent person wouldn’t want to see every spirit son and daughter of God saved, and not a single beloved brother or sister left behind to dwell in a state of never ending misery? This idea of extending mercy to everyone, regardless of their willingness or desire to be saved, at first blush certainly sounds like a very appealing and fair-minded idea. But the problem is that because existence can only be affirmed upon the immutable principle of diametric opposition in all things, Lucifer’s very appealing and merciful sounding plan cannot work and is, paradoxically, the very mechanism whereby hell itself is created. 

A more temporal example of the same principle in action is seen in the well-intentioned and seemingly compassionate idea that unwed mothers should, without having to work, be given the money needed to keep a roof over her fatherless family’s heads, with sufficient funds to clothe, feed and educated her children. But as well-intentioned, kind and compassionate as this idea may appear, the program’s disastrous unintended negative consequences have ultimately proven to be destructive of the institution of marriage, family, good child rearing and financially sound and solvent government. 

But as far as the meaning of the more modern version of the saying is concerned, ‘the road to hell is paved with good intentions,’ it’s simply another way of saying that ‘the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak,’ or that ‘faith without works is dead.’ How many of us have attended a particularly inspiring church meeting where, in the midst of the highly motivating spiritual atmosphere, we fervently and sincerely resolve to turn over a new leaf and, for example, visit and truly help the families we’ve been assigned to minister to, but when we get home we keep saying to ourselves  “I’ll do it tomorrow” until one, two, then three months go by without following through on any of the actions we so sincerely promised to take. James put it this way:

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (James 1)

The phrase "hell is full of good intentions" I think gives a clearer meaning but in doing so it just compounds things worse. An "intention" is what one actually intends to do. It's coupled with desire, plan & action. It's truly what is in ones heart. Somehow I feel we have divorced intention from action as if "intention" is just an idea on the edge of our mind but isn't our true desire and action.

Satan's true intentions wasn't to save anyone. He wanted to destroy God and his kingdom. His initial intentions were to overthrow God and enslave mankind into sin and reign over them in eternity. His rebellion and defiance to God we're bad intentions. Hell is full of bad intentions not good intentions.

[Rob Osborn]

9 hours ago, Scott said:

I agree, but it depends on how you look at the statement.

One modern example is that when something bad happens to someone, some people might be inclined to say "We're sending you are thoughts and prayers", but many stop there and don't do anything to help the situation.

Sending thoughts and prayers can be looked at as a good intention, but if that's all you ever do, you really aren't doing any good.

God wants actions, not just professed intentions.   At least that's how I look at it.  

Speaking in past tense when we use the word "intention" it is always coupled with the plan or purpose tied with the action. So, intentions are more than just thoughts void of action, they are actually desires and purposes coupled with action.

[Jersey Boy]

7 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

The phrase "hell is full of good intentions" I think gives a clearer meaning but in doing so it just compounds things worse. An "intention" is what one actually intends to do. It's coupled with desire, plan & action. It's truly what is in ones heart. Somehow I feel we have divorced intention from action as if "intention" is just an idea on the edge of our mind but isn't our true desire and action.

Satan's true intentions wasn't to save anyone. He wanted to destroy God and his kingdom. His initial intentions were to overthrow God and enslave mankind into sin and reign over them in eternity. His rebellion and defiance to God we're bad intentions. Hell is full of bad intentions not good intentions.

Have you ever intended to do something but didn’t get around to doing the thing you intended to do?