Just for fun

[Traveler]

As some of us know – Science is exciting but there are a lot of unanswered questions in science – one of my personal favorites are Black Holes.  No mortal knows for sure they exist be there are good indications they do.  One of the long standing theories about Black Holes is that space and time are so distorted that dimensional space and time do not exist.  What is theorized is that a Black Hole closes off space time into what is theatrically called singularity.  Singularity is not well defined and someone came up with the idea that singularity is what exists outside of our universe space time. 

We have determined that our universe is expanding.  But the big question is – expanding into what?  One possible solution, in theory, is that the universe is expanding into a singularity.  This means that all points outside of our universe and the same singular point.  This lender itself that a Black Hole singularity is the same singularity – in other words connected.  Which means that Black Holes are connected.

The connection between Black Holes was first theorized by Carl Sagan that gave us the mathematical proof that it is mathematically possible.  He coined the phrase for such a connection as a “worm hole”.  Worm holes have become a popular concept in science fiction but are depicted more as a tunnel.

As I have theorized about Black Holes and singularity – I have theorized that there are classification of singularities and that the classifications are quantified.  A quantum physics problem in essence that can exist on a universal scale or a sub-atomic scale.  In essence this is an extension of my theory of an additional dimensional spiritual plain or that things spiritual exist on an exist dimension.

Quantized singularities would in essence connect all Black Holes of the same quantum classification.  But I have a little problem with Carl Sagan’s concept of a worm hole – I theorize that they are in essence unidirectional – meaning one could only travel one direction.  This would mean that somewhere in the universe there would be the opposite of a black hole – something I theorized as a White Hole.  The biggest problem with my theory was that for all the evidence of Black Holes – there are no corresponding White Holes.  Or is there?

Recently I was reading some new developments on quasars and a possible connection to high energy cosmic rays.  Cosmic rays are not really rays but high energy particle beams and the particles are for all practical purposes traveling at the speed of light.  Something like 99.999999999999% of the speed of light.  Then it dawned on me that the source of these high energy cosmic rays and quasars may be my theatrical White Holes.  This big mystery is that quasars give off more energy and matter than is possible (keep in mind that energy and matter are different states of the same thing).  The source of a quasar’s energy and emissions could be my quantum singularities recycling matter and energy.

This all means that creation is not just a beginning and an end but a sort of recycling.  We are taught this in our Latter-day Saint theology – that as matter is unorganized; that it is recycled in creation.  This corresponds to an Ancient Egyptian concept of eternal – which is in essence a process of recycling.  There was an ancient term for this kind of eternity and it was used by Joseph Smith – but I am horrible at spelling and cannot get close enough for Google or spell check for the term.

Anyway – just for fun – I thought to share some thoughts.

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

One Eternal Round.

[zil]

19 hours ago, Traveler said:

Singularity

Why yes, that was fun!

[anatess2]

9 hours ago, zil said:

Why yes, that was fun!

Ohhh... that nib.  in love.

[zil]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Ohhh... that nib.  in love.

Nemosine do have a really nice design on their nibs.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, zil said:

Nemosine do have a really nice design on their nibs.

I have discovered that I really do grip my pens very close to the tip.  That is one reason i could never write with a FP.  I've been working with that Oracle pen.  But it is getting me to use muscles that I've never used for writing.  And with so much on computer nowadays, I fear I will never get used to it well enough to control myself if I were to write with a fountain pen.  So, it's just gel pens for me.

[zil]

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I have discovered that I really do grip my pens very close to the tip.  That is one reason i could never write with a FP.

So you need something with a hooded nib (Lamy 2000, Wing Sung 601 (Parker 51 knock-off, only $20 on Amazon)):

 

Or a tiny nib (Pilot Vanishing Point - retractable fountain pen):

The Lamy and Pilot have gold nibs and are excellent pens (I have the Pilot - actually, I have 4 of those in different styles).  The Wing Sung is on my wish list mostly out of curiosity regarding its filling system.  QC isn't great, so it's a little bit of a gamble for someone who doesn't want to tune their own nib.  If you decide you want to try it and luck out on the nib, I'd be happy to tune it for you.

PS: Sorry for high-jacking your thread, @Traveler, but it looks like the rest of us aren't up on black holes and what-not.  Maybe @Vort will pop in and say something physicsy.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, zil said:

PS: Sorry for high-jacking your thread, @Traveler, but it looks like the rest of us aren't up on black holes and what-not.  Maybe @Vort will pop in and say something physicsy.

Actually I wondered if anyone would notice some doctrinal or spiritual parallels.  Especially the possibility that repentance, Sabbath day of rest and other possibly cyclic concepts are eternal concepts of renewal and perfection.  A symbolic fractal if you will that gives us insight into things eternal, holy and pure.  But if pens are your thing - I can get that point as well.

 

The Traveler

[zil]

11 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Actually I wondered if anyone would notice some doctrinal or spiritual parallels.  Especially the possibility that repentance, Sabbath day of rest and other possibly cyclic concepts are eternal concepts of renewal and perfection.  A symbolic fractal if you will that gives us insight into things eternal, holy and pure.

It's hard to draw parallels when one's understanding of the non-symbolic bits is so shallow.  You say "worm hole" and the extent of my knowledge begins and ends with Stargate: SG1.

My immediate reaction to this:

On 9/19/2018 at 11:10 AM, Traveler said:

I theorize that they are in essence unidirectional – meaning one could only travel one direction

...was to wonder, if you can travel in one direction, what's to stop you from traveling the other?  In other words, it would seem to me that if travel is possible, the default would be "both directions" and if that wasn't an option, there would have to be something explicitly forcing the one-direction-only rule.  (Not that I have a good reason for that, probably instinctive based on experience.  I suppose one could theorize that unidirectional is the norm and bidirectional requires something special to enable it - but my experience doesn't seem to reflect that set of rules.)

17 minutes ago, Traveler said:

But if pens are your thing - I can get that point as well.

Excellent pun.

The box for the Nemosine Singularity fountain pen comes with some formula on the outside that supposedly has something to do with Singularities - I just don't understand it:

[Traveler]

7 minutes ago, zil said:

It's hard to draw parallels when one's understanding of the non-symbolic bits is so shallow.  You say "worm hole" and the extent of my knowledge begins and ends with Stargate: SG1.

Do not feel bad Carl Sagan theorized worm holes to be bidirectional.   However, mathematically, dimensional intersections can create a bidirectional portal through boundary point and all points of lower dimension are boundary points to a higher dimension.   Black Holes are harder to explain because theoretically you have deal with infinity and many physics do not believe infinity can actually exist. 

Quote

My immediate reaction to this:

...was to wonder, if you can travel in one direction, what's to stop you from traveling the other?  In other words, it would seem to me that if travel is possible, the default would be "both directions" and if that wasn't an option, there would have to be something explicitly forcing the one-direction-only rule.  (Not that I have a good reason for that, probably instinctive based on experience.  I suppose one could theorize that unidirectional is the norm and bidirectional requires something special to enable it - but my experience doesn't seem to reflect that set of rules.)

In essence I believe a Black Hole creates a magnetic and gravitational vortex of great force - think of a little hole at the bottom of a dam - all the water is going to be coming out the little hole and there is no room or place for anything to go the other direction.

Quote

Excellent pun.

The box for the Nemosine Singularity fountain pen comes with some formula on the outside that supposedly has something to do with Singularities - I just don't understand it:

R is the ideal gas (particle) constant but the equation is not typically used to establish energy and volumes for gas.  G is the universal  gravity constant and C is the speed of light.  M is mass - you know the e=MC(squared).  When mass and gravity  (infinite by definition) capture light - speed of light becomes zero which stops time then the ideal gas constant becomes infinite and the volume of the particles goes to zero - which is singularity in a Black Hole. 

 

The Traveler

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Traveler said:

However, mathematically, dimensional intersections can create a bidirectional portal through boundary point and all points of lower dimension are boundary points to a higher dimension.

I think I almost understand that, but not quite.   I'll leave it in the back of my brain - it does better at figuring things out than my conscious brain.

10 minutes ago, Traveler said:

In essence I believe a Black Hole creates a magnetic and gravitational vortex of great force - think of a little hole at the bottom of a dam - all the water is going to be coming out the little hole and there is no room or place for anything to go the other direction.

Got it - that explains the unidirectional bit.

11 minutes ago, Traveler said:

R is the ideal gas (particle) constant but the equation is not typically used to establish energy and volumes for gas.  G is the universal  gravity constant and C is the speed of light.  M is mass - you know the e=MC(squared).  When mass and gravity  (infinite by definition) capture light - speed of light becomes zero which stops time then the ideal gas constant becomes infinite and the volume of the particles goes to zero - which is singularity in a Black Hole.  

I comprehended all the words.  Now I just need to think about it harder and I might get it - sort of, in the back of my brain.

[Traveler]

23 minutes ago, zil said:

I think I almost understand that, but not quite.   I'll leave it in the back of my brain - it does better at figuring things out than my conscious brain.

Got it - that explains the unidirectional bit.

I comprehended all the words.  Now I just need to think about it harder and I might get it - sort of, in the back of my brain.

Let me help you with dimensional intersections - think of a piece of paper as a two dimensional plain.  Now because you are in a 3 dimensional universe that intersects the paper - just think of what you can do with a pen and eraser to that paper. 

As for the equation - I have no idea what they think they are doing - if I were them I would go for the artificial intelligence concept of singularity - and leave gases and volumes out of it.   BTW - are you a published author?  if not - you should be.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

2 hours ago, zil said:

My immediate reaction to this:

On 9/19/2018 at 10:10 AM, Traveler said:

I theorize that they are in essence unidirectional – meaning one could only travel one direction

...was to wonder, if you can travel in one direction, what's to stop you from traveling the other?

Black holes are plenty weird and counterintuitive. It seems they really do exist; the mathematics is sound, and astrophysicists have found plenty of confirmation of the predictions about what would happen if black holes existed. But even if their existence appears to have been confirmed, how they operate is the subject of much research (and, I expect, not a few PhD dissertations).

One idea is the source/sink idea. Consider a spring of water that produces a little rivulet, traveling down the hillside until it dives into a small crevice and disappears. The spring is the source of the stream and the crevice is the sink. What if you have a source but no sink? Then you get a pond (or lake, or ocean). What if you have a sink but no source? Well...nothing. Every little stream that might arise just dies in the crevice.

In this model, black holes are the sink. Matter disappears into them, never again to be part of our larger universe (except for the matter's mass, which continues to exist in the black hole). Is that matter really lost forever? Maybe not. What if the black hole somehow connects (in some conduit or such that isn't part of our normal universe -- the fabled "wormhole") to a source that spews the matter or energy back out?

Voilà! A "white hole". Kind of a dumb name for it, since it's rather the opposite of a hole, but you have to tolerate astrophysicists' geeky senses of symmetry and humor.

I have zero authority on such matters, and probably less than zero credibility in any opinion I might forward. But FWIW (which, as I said, is a non-positive sum), I'm not much sold on white holes. I think the idea of "black hole evaporation" makes more sense and strikes me as more elegant. (Physicists use the term "elegant" to mean, "I can't really articulate why anyone should believe this idea, but it strikes me as clever, so I like it." I'm not a physicist, but I borrow the usage.)

"Evaporation" is supposed to be a process whereby a black hole slowly loses its mass to the surrounding universe. It's heavily dependent on quantum physics, and goes something like this:

Look at the "empty space" around you. Not the air, but the actual "empty space" -- the vacuum of non-existence. Look closely. No, closer than that. Look reeeeeeeally close. What do you see? Why, you see existence/antiexistence virtual pairs of particles floating around! That's right! There in the nothingness, you see a potentially existent particle, closely coupled with a virtual particle that is anti-existent. Not non-existent, but ANTI-existent.

What?

You know, it's like the old joke: An experimental physicist, a biologist, and a mathematician see two people go into a house. A short time later, they see three people leave. The physicist says, "Oops. Experimental error." The biologist says, "Look! Evidence of reproduction!" The mathematician says, "If one more person enters the house, it will be empty."

Like that.

So...a black hole has a two-dimensional surface surrounding it, called an "event horizon". It's not a physical surface, like ground or something. It's the point (or collection of points) where the escape velocity from the black hole's gravity equals the speed of light. Anything, even light, that crosses this surface is irretrievably lost and becomes part of the black hole, because it becomes physically and mathematically impossible for that particle (mass or photon) to escape. It would require more than infinite energy.

But look reeeeeeeeally closely at the event horizon. Go ahead, look. Closer. No, closer than that. Look hard. What do you see?

Why, you see those existent/antiexistent quantum particle pairs floating around! Right there around the event horizon! And those virtual pairs keep breaking apart, popping into existence (or antiexistence) for a treMEEEEEENdously short time (called the Planck Time, if you really want to know). If nothing happens to them during that time, they pop back out of existence (or antiexistence), and it's like they never existed. Because they didn't. They're VIRTUAL particles.

But...

...what happens if, when the virtual existent/antiexistent particles break apart and pop into existence, they do so right at the event horizon? And, we're just supposing now, let's say that the existent particle materializes outside the event horizon with sufficient energy to escape the black hole's gravity, while the antiexistent particle materializes inside the event horizon? Well, you see, now the new, actually existing particle goes flying off, having successfully "escaped" the black hole, while the antiexistent particle becomes part of the black hole, lessening its mass by exactly the amount of the particle now flying happily away.

Voilà! Black hole evaporation! Convincing, huh?

What I write above doesn't really say anything about Traveler's OP, of course. That OP is more of a philosophical musing about how the physicality of the universe around us might correspond with the details of how God works. Always a fun topic for speculation, but also always one that we can never stake out for colonization, because our ignorance is so vast that we know perfectly well our models don't cover actual reality. So we talk about hyperdimensional space and God being "outside the universe" and other such things, and they're fun mental games, but when we want real, solid, reliable truth, we go to General Conference and read our scriptures.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Vort

[zil]

59 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Let me help you with dimensional intersections - think of a piece of paper as a two dimensional plain.  Now because you are in a 3 dimensional universe that intersects the paper - just think of what you can do with a pen and eraser to that paper. 

Hmm.  That's interesting.  In the videos, they always show a 3-D object (usually a sphere) going through the paper, touching it at several places at once, while the poor 2-D people have no idea what's really happening.  I've never thought of it as a 3-D pen coming along and magically making lines in the 2-D world.  I'm not sure exactly what to do with this idea, except that I'm thinking it's a story that needs telling - about the poor folk in 2-D-land who keep encountering lines they can't make any sense of.

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

As for the equation - I have no idea what they think they are doing - if I were them I would go for the artificial intelligence concept of singularity - and leave gases and volumes out of it.

I think they wanted a clever way to say "this pen is a Singularity" without saying it outright.  All their pens have sciency names: Fission, Singularity, Neutrino.  Similar with their ink names - Blue Snowball Nebula, Halley's Comet Purple, etc.

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

BTW - are you a published author?  if not - you should be. 

I'm not, but next year I start in earnest toward that goal, and I sincerely hope you're right, because I'm quitting my day job to make the time to dedicate to writing and finding an editor / agent / publisher.

[Vort]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

I'm not, but next year I start in earnest toward that goal, and I sincerely hope you're right, because I'm quitting my day job to make the time to dedicate to writing and finding an editor / agent / publisher.

I have confidence in you.

[Traveler]

38 minutes ago, zil said:

 

I'm not, but next year I start in earnest toward that goal, and I sincerely hope you're right, because I'm quitting my day job to make the time to dedicate to writing and finding an editor / agent / publisher.

Sometime ago BYU started a symposium called Life, the Universe and Everything - It use to be free but now there is a fee and I think they have moved it from the BYU campus.  Anyway it is a great place to contact publishers - they use to sponsor writing contest - I once submitted a short story that was rejected for being too unbelievable - but interestingly it was a true story.  Anyway you may want to check it out.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

@Vort I agree a White Hole is a little out of it - but quasars look like a white hole by a different name.  They give off more energy than a super nova (believed to create Black Holes) not just over time but are the brightest things in the universe.  Also we can include quantum tunneling as part of the evaporation process.   One example of quantum tunneling are electrons in orbit of a atom.  Kind of a wave property where the electron moves back and forth between places but is never in between.  And so an electron or other particle in the singularity (especially near an event horizon which is everything because space and times is distorted) that is on one side of the event horizon suddenly is on the other and escapes.  The mathematics of evaporation would prevent super massive Black Holes - but then no one has figured out yet how super massive Black Holes could have formed in the time our universe has existed - unless they are quantumly linked and the mass is appearing in multiple places - places where normal Black Holes are created and linked through quantum singularities. 

Isn't this fun?

 

The Traveler

[zil]

29 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Sometime ago BYU started a symposium called Life, the Universe and Everything - It use to be free but now there is a fee and I think they have moved it from the BYU campus.  Anyway it is a great place to contact publishers - they use to sponsor writing contest - I once submitted a short story that was rejected for being too unbelievable - but interestingly it was a true story.  Anyway you may want to check it out.

The Traveler

Thanks.  Yes, I plan to go next year.  It will happen either during or shortly after Winter semester (when I plan to be taking Brandon Sanderson's creative writing class).  There's also another local writer's conference that I'm looking into (I fear it has gone all children's writing, but hopefully not).

[mikbone]

Abraham 3: 18  Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

 

Hawking Radiation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

 

Kardashev scale is a method of measuring a civilization's level of technological advancement, based on the amount of energy a civilization is able to use. It was proposed by Soviet astronomer Nikolai Kardashev in 1964. The scale has three designated categories:

• A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star.
• A Type II civilization—also called a stellar civilization—can harness the total energy of its planet's parent star (the most popular hypothetical concept being the Dyson sphere—a device which would encompass the entire star and transfer its energy to the planet(s)).
• A Type III civilization—also called a galactic civilization—can control energy on the scale of its entire host galaxy.

We are not even a Type I civilization.  Lowly Earthlings rank only 0.73 on the scale

The original scale has been added upon 

Type IV can control the energy of a Universe

Type V can control the energy of multiple Universes

Type VI can manipulate matter and energy, likely reside outside of time and space, and and create Universes

 

God is a Type VI entity.  Many scientists have proposed that our Universe is possibly only a simulation.  

I like the idea.  We have no idea what is going on out there...

Edited September 21, 2018 by mikbone

[Traveler]

50 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Abraham 3: 18  Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

 

Hawking Radiation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation

 

Kardashev scale is a method of measuring a civilization's level of technological advancement, based on the amount of energy a civilization is able to use. It was proposed by Soviet astronomer Nikolai Kardashev in 1964. The scale has three designated categories:

• A Type I civilization—also called a planetary civilization—can use and store all of the energy which reaches its planet from its parent star.
• A Type II civilization—also called a stellar civilization—can harness the total energy of its planet's parent star (the most popular hypothetical concept being the Dyson sphere—a device which would encompass the entire star and transfer its energy to the planet(s)).
• A Type III civilization—also called a galactic civilization—can control energy on the scale of its entire host galaxy.

We are not even a Type I civilization.  Lowly Earthlings rank only 0.73 on the scale

The original scale has been added upon 

Type IV can control the energy of a Galaxy

Type V can control the energy of multiple Galaxies

Type VI can manipulate matter and energy, likely reside outside of time and space, and and create Galaxies.

 

God is a Type VI entity.  Many scientists have proposed that our Universe is possibly only a simulation.  

I like the idea.  We have no idea what is going on out there...

Thank you  gnolaum is the ancient Egyptian term that in essence means recycled - similar to seasons.  In the ancient Book of Enoch - G-d tells Enoch that all things physical become corrupted and must be purified in stars or they will no longer remain recognizable matter.  Some say the Book of Enoch is not scripture - at least not canonized - but I am impressed in the concept of gnolaum  is believed to be about 4,000 years old and it is still an important point for the prophet Joseph to reference.

The Dyson sphere idea - There is one possibility that some scientist think they have found - but of course it is debatable. 

I have two sons that work with high tech virtual reality (VR).  They claim it is impossible to know if we exist in a virtual reality or not.  But if we are living in a physical VR it would explain many things - like why we are told that which is physical is not as real as that which is spiritual.  Also it would make creation of the universe much easier for G-d along with things like resurrection - and if this is a virtual reality rather than actual reality - it would explain why Jesus could justly suffer for sins and be the source of forgiveness and why we should repent and not worry about our sins or anyone else's.  Also why G-d already know the future and so on.

As for knowing what is going on out there - at best science has calculated that as of now it is impossible to know accurately beyond 5% of what is going on.  However, as many have experienced in the old High Priest group meetings - many in the religious side of things; think they know everything and nothing is possible that religious types don't already know and have figured out.  Sometimes I think humans get mixed up between what is reality and what they think they have figured out from reading scripture.

 

Thanks for reading and contributing.

 

the Traveler

[mikbone]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

As for knowing what is going on out there - at best science has calculated that as of now it is impossible to know accurately beyond 5% of what is going on.  However, as many have experienced in the old High Priest group meetings - many in the religious side of things; think they know everything and nothing is possible that religious types don't already know and have figured out.  Sometimes I think humans get mixed up between what is reality and what they think they have figured out from reading scripture.

Not sure if the 5% that you are describing comes from the above or not, but here goes anyway.

Some atheist ridicule theist concepts of faith, yet scientists concede that we can only study and attempt to explain 4% of the known universe.  The remainder of the universe is composed of ‘dark matter’ 23% and ‘dark energy’ 73%, both of which are working hypothesis.  Physicists have faith in dark matter because it best explains gravitational lensing and galaxy rotation.  Dark energy explains why the universe is expanding and accelerating.  We have absolutely no hard evidence that either dark matter or dark energy exist.  Essentially, 96% of the known universe is a scientific conundrum.

We hardly know anything about the Earth.  Is the core Iron/nickel? Probably, but we don't know.  What lives at the bottom of the Ocean?  Who knows...  Our deepest drill into the crust almost made it 6 miles.  Some estimate that we have only cataloged 14% of the Earth's species.  So lets assume that there are a hundred quintillion planets in the known universe (our best guess at this point, 1 with 18 zeros). 

And lets assume that we understand about 1% of the Earth (probably a huge over estimation).  That our Earth is one of 1x 10^18 planets.  And since the Earth is composed of Heavy Elements...

then the percentage that we know is ...     .01 x 1/1,000,000,000,000,000,000 x .03  

 

We're dumb.