Children with gay parents

[anatess2]

25 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The OP here was about kids..  Hence my urging for sensitivity.   

I understand this.

But here's the thing.  Usually when you're urging for sensitivity, especially after the ping-poing between NT and Wade, it means someone was not sensitive so you urge them to be sensitive.  This is what I'm addressing - that I don't think Wade was being insensitive.

If your post had nothing to do with the pingpong between NT and Wade, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Edited October 24, 2018 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

And too much sensitivity gets us this:

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In case you’re wondering, I told my stake president I was going to start dating. He’s alright with it as long as I stay “temple worthy.” One time he asked me where I’m meeting these gay LDS single men, and I laughed because I don’t know any others Florida besides myself. If I lived in the Mormon belt in the Western US, that would be more likely. I wish I could find single gay LDS or former-LDS men here in Florida because I think we’d have a lot in common.

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Awesome a SP allows a homosexual member to go on homosexual dates as long as he is "temple-worthy".  Cool beans.  Can I date other women in the spirit of obeying polygamy just making sure I don't have "sexual relationships" and being "temple-worthy"?

Again, my focus was on kids, which was the focus of the OP here.  Will people please keep trying to change the topic.    

[iamdiamd]

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

Again, my focus was on kids, which was the focus of the OP here.  Will people please keep trying to change the topic.    

But you can't compartmentalize it.  It is all part of the same rot.

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

I understand this.

But here's the thing.  Usually when you're urging for sensitivity, especially after the ping-poing between NT and Wade, it means someone was not sensitive so you urge them to be sensitive.  This is what I'm addressing - that I don't think Wade was being insensitive.

If your post had nothing to do with Wade, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I was not responding to Wade at all.     Man, I wish all misunderstandings were that easy to fix up!  

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, iamdiamd said:

But you can't compartmentalize it.  It is all part of the same rot.

Pardon me, but i'm not going to mix up A) working with a kid that wasn't didn't choose their parents sins or what house to grow up in, and B) a adult that does have a choice in the relationships they have.  

[iamdiamd]

6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Pardon me, but i'm not going to mix up A) working with a kid that wasn't didn't choose their parents sins or what house to grow up in, and B) a adult that does have a choice in the relationships they have.  

You are not understanding the larger picture.

If you want to work with a kid who didn't choose who their parents are or what house they grew up in you MUST fix the overarching problem.

Think of it this way.  If a child grows up in an abusive household, simply focusing on the child who is abused (while it is a very good thing), will do nothing in the long-term to actually help FUTURE children from not being abused.

You must strike at the heart of the issue, which is acceptance of homosexuality in today's culture.  Otherwise you are just tilting at windmills.

Furthermore, it is totally illogical to request that a child renounce a homosexual lifestyle (not publicly, just that they reject it as a good thing), when we have homosexual members who are "temple-worthy" going on homosexual dates!

Edited October 24, 2018 by iamdiamd

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

Furthermore, it is totally illogical to request that a child renounce a homosexual lifestyle (not publicly, just that they reject it as a good thing), when we have homosexual members who are "temple-worthy" going on homosexual dates!

Say WUT???

[iamdiamd]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Say WUT???

Which part?  The fact that homosexual members currently in the Church are now going on homosexual dates and are considered by Stake Presidents to be temple-worthy?

Or the connection between children and homosexual lifestyle.

[anatess2]

Just now, iamdiamd said:

Which part?  The fact that homosexual members currently in the Church are now going on homosexual dates and are considered by Stake Presidents to be temple-worthy?

Or the connection between children and homosexual lifestyle.

That one.  I don't believe you.  Homosexual romantic serious dates?  Or just 2 guys (or 2 girls) hanging out as friends?  

[Jane_Doe]

8 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

You are not understanding the larger picture.

If you want to work with a kid who didn't choose who their parents are or what house they grew up in you MUST fix the overarching problem.

Think of it this way.  If a child grows up in an abusive household, simply focusing on the child who is abused (while it is a very good thing), will do nothing in the long-term to actually help FUTURE children from not being abused.

You must strike at the heart of the issue, which is acceptance of homosexuality in today's culture.  Otherwise you are just tilting at windmills.

You and I are talking on two very different subjects here.

The OP was about interacting with kids with homosexual parents.  Hence my focus was on best working with these kids- serving them the best Christ-like manner we can.  A child can't make their parents stop sinning (whatever the sin is) and we should never place that burden on their shoulders.

Your focus is on telling the adults to get their act together.  That's a completely different subject than "how do I best work with this kid?"  Yes, it would be great if all adults got their act together and abandoned all sins-- no denying that.  But that's not working with the kid.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[iamdiamd]

3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That one.  I don't believe you.  Homosexual romantic serious dates?  Or just 2 guys (or 2 girls) hanging out as friends?  

Homosexual dates.  You haven't been taking Elder Ballard's advice and "listening to and learning from our LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters".

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/

Stake Executive Secretary with approval from his SP going on homosexual dates, going to drag parties, etc.

All you have to do is "listen to and learn from".  Sorry to burst your bubble-things are quite a bit further along then you might think.

Edited October 24, 2018 by iamdiamd

[iamdiamd]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

You and I are talking on two very different subjects here.

The OP was about interacting with kids with homosexual parents.  Hence my focus was on best working with these kids- serving them the best Christ-like manner we can.  A child can't make their parents stop sinning (whatever the sin is) and we should never place that burden on their shoulders.

Your focus is on telling the adults to get their act together.  That's a completely different subject than "how do I best work with this kid?"

 

No they aren't completely different subjects.  Before you can interact properly with kids you have to have your own house in order.  You can't "serve them the best Christ-like manner" when the adult house isn't in order (or at least the teaching of it).

Kids see and smell hypocrisy a mile away.  When the rot is at the adult level from people they look up to, they will see the hypocrisy and tell you to bugger off.

Edited October 24, 2018 by iamdiamd

[anatess2]

7 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

Homosexual dates.  You haven't been taking Elder Ballard's advice and "listening to and learning from our LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters".

https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/

Stake Executive Secretary with approval from his SP going on homosexual dates, going to drag parties, etc.

All you have to do is "listen to and learn from".  Sorry to burst your bubble-things are quite a bit further along then you might think.

You are saying that that nerdy gay mormon guy is a Stake Executive Security who is going out on homosexual dates?  Drag parties, that's different - I've been to Marine parties with all the booze, smokes, and cussing.  Didn't lose my recommend over it.  My bishop knows I don't drink, smoke, nor cuss (well, not usually, I've been known to go on a rage rampage.)

Edited October 24, 2018 by anatess2

[iamdiamd]

3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You are saying that that nerdy gay mormon guy is a Stake Executive Security who is going out on homosexual dates?  Drag parties, that's different - I've been to Marine parties with all the booze, smokes, and cussing.  Didn't lose my recommend over it.  My bishop knows I don't drink, smoke, nor cuss.

Rationalize much? 

I never said someone should lose their TR over drag parties-I simply used it as proof of the accuracy of what I'm saying.  Someone is attending drag parties certainly shouldn't be someone who is a leadership position. And a drag show is definitely on a different level than going to Marine parties-they aren't sexually explicit, they aren't made specifically for sexual purposes.

And yes he is going on homosexual dates with approval from his Stake President.  The guy writes about it on his blog, you just have to read what he writes.

Edited October 24, 2018 by iamdiamd

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, iamdiamd said:

No they aren't completely different subjects.  Before you can interact properly with kids you have to have your own house in order.  You can't "serve them the best Christ-like manner" when the adult house isn't in order (or at least the teaching of it).

Say you're a soccer coach for 5 year olds.  Your team meets together once a week (Saturday mornings) for a 30 minute game.  The 5 year olds are... well 5.  They pick their noses, and do a bunch of silly kid things, simply because they are 5.  Heck, they can't even read yet.

One of the kids on your team happens to have homosexual parents.  What do you do?  

My answer is to best love that child, which means showing them kindness and respecting the innocent love they feel towards their parents-- NEVER trash talk their family in front of the kid.  Love the kid, encourage their soccer skills, taking turn skills, and all the other things a soccer coach does.  

You'd rather ignore the kid, and (as the soccer coach) lecture the parents on how they need to abandon their sinful life.  Dude, that's not the focus of the OP here, nor is it an effective way to share the Gospel.  All you're going to do is have the parents withdraw the kid from your soccer team.  Yes, ideally their parents will come closer to God and follow His Plan, but that's not accomplished by a random lecture from the kid's soccer coach. 

[anatess2]

Just now, iamdiamd said:

Rationalize much? 

I never said someone should lose their TR over drag parties-I simply used it as proof of the accuracy of what I'm saying.  Someone is attending drag parties certainly shouldn't be someone who is a leadership position.

And yes he is going on homosexual dates with approval from his Stake President.  The guy writes about it on his blog, you just have to read what he writes.

Meh.  I have no intention of reading one Mormon guy's stories and make it the standard by which the Church runs its divine organization.  Especially as I don't know the guy from Adam.

[iamdiamd]

Just now, Jane_Doe said:

Say you're a soccer coach for 5 year olds.  Your team meets together once a week (Saturday mornings) for a 30 minute game.  The 5 year olds are... well 5.  They pick their noses, and do a bunch of silly kid things, simply because they are 5.  Heck, they can't even read yet.

One of the kids on your team happens to have homosexual parents.  What do you do?  

My answer is to best love that child, which means showing them kindness and respecting the innocent love they feel towards their parents-- NEVER trash talk their family in front of the kid.  Love the kid, encourage their soccer skills, taking turn skills, and all the other things a soccer coach does.  

You'd rather ignore the kid, and (as the soccer coach) lecture the parents on how they need to abandon their sinful life.  Dude, that's not the focus of the OP here, nor is it an effective way to share the Gospel.  All you're going to do is have the parents withdraw the kid from your soccer team.  Yes, ideally their parents will come closer to God and follow His Plan, but that's not accomplished by a random lecture from the kid's soccer coach. 

Actually most people have compassion, kindness and love messed up in today's culture.  You do what is in the best long-term interest of the child.

Is it in the best-long term interest of the child to pretend that they come from a good family?  A normal family?  Heck no.  In fact, later in life they might hate you for it b/c they will say STE I grew up in a messed up home and NO ONE ever said to me, you know what you do grow up in a screwed up home and I'm sorry that occurred to you.

Papering over the problem and pretending it doesn't exist or pretending everything is hunky-dory when it's not is not the right solution.

[iamdiamd]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Meh.  I have no intention of reading one Mormon guy's stories and make it the standard by which the Church runs its divine organization.  Especially as I don't know the guy from Adam.

Okay, stick your head in the sand.  Cognitive dissonance.  That's cool.  

I never said it was "the standard" only that it is happening.  You should take Elder Ballard's advice and "listen to and learn from" a little more.

[anatess2]

Just now, iamdiamd said:

Actually most people have compassion, kindness and love messed up in today's culture.  You do what is in the best long-term interest of the child.

Not quite.

You do the maximum of what is allowed under your authority/keys.  If it is your child or a child in your sphere of influence, go ahead, preach.  If it's somebody else's child... your authority doesn't go there until he's an adult.

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

Okay, stick your head in the sand.  Cognitive dissonance.  That's cool.  

I never said it was "the standard" only that it is happening.  You should take Elder Ballard's advice and "listen to and learn from" a little more.

Using an Apostle's name to booster your argument doesn't make it any better.

And saying I'm sticking my head in the sand is idiotic.  You don't know what I know nor where I've been.

Edited October 24, 2018 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

57 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

Actually most people have compassion, kindness and love messed up in today's culture.  You do what is in the best long-term interest of the child.

Is it in the best-long term interest of the child to pretend that they come from a good family?  A normal family?  Heck no.  In fact, later in life they might hate you for it b/c they will say STE I grew up in a messed up home and NO ONE ever said to me, you know what you do grow up in a screwed up home and I'm sorry that occurred to you.

Papering over the problem and pretending it doesn't exist or pretending everything is hunky-dory when it's not is not the right solution.

You approach here is SO outside of Christ's ways or basic sense.  I'm not going to waste my time on such responses anymore.  

[iamdiamd]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

You approach here is SO outside of Christ's ways or basic sense.  I'm not going to waste my time on such responses anymore.  

According to you. You do a person no favors by not teaching them reality. My way is the way things used to be.

[iamdiamd]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Using an Apostle's name to booster your argument doesn't make it any better.

And saying I'm sticking my head in the sand is idiotic.  You don't know what I know nor where I've been.

Deflect from the reality of what is happening.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, iamdiamd said:

According to you.

Actually according to many of us, but @Jane_Doe is the only one who said it. 

[iamdiamd]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Not quite.

You do the maximum of what is allowed under your authority/keys.  If it is your child or a child in your sphere of influence, go ahead, preach.  If it's somebody else's child... your authority doesn't go there until he's an adult.

And where did I say you should go up to some random person?

No if you area youth leader you have some responsibility over the child. If the child is being abused your don't say... Oh that's nice your family is wonderful. Being raised in a homosexual family is child abuse.