The Samuel Principle -- Rethought

[Guest]

In Elders' Quorum we were discussing the shortened block.  One of the concerns that I had was that those who didn't take the time to study on their own before, probably wouldn't do so now.  And they'd have that much less instruction from scriptures moving forward.

We did discuss several ways to deal with that.  But one response stood out among the others.

When you have a lead role in a large company, you have to know when you need resources to do the job right.  This may simply be more information.  This may be software. This may be funding...  The brother leading the discussion told a story about such.

Quote

Whenever I had a big project I'd invariably need some funding for this or that.  I'd put together a request which required a justification for the extra funding.  And I've always been given what I needed.  After several projects, I had to go there just to thank them.  I commented that each time I'd made these requests I'd always been given the money I needed.

They said,"Well of course we would.  But you need to be careful."

"What do you mean?  Careful of what?"

"If you show us a need for the funds to make your project successful, of course we're going to give you what you need.  We want you to succeed as much as you do.  But if we give you all you need, and the project fails, that's on you.  We gave you everything you needed -- by your own request.  And if you fail, that is all your fault.  So, when making these requests, make sure you need it.  And make sure you succeed."

The Samuel Principle is often thought of as the Lord "giving in".  No, it isn't.  It is the Lord giving us greater responsibility.  We could live in a society led by a true Prophet of God where (we are promised) the Lord will remove someone from that position should he ever begin to lead us astray.  But, instead, we live in a democratic society with elected officials.  We want the strong arm of the law to enforce things rather than let the Spirit guide us in all we do.

Just as the Lord provided the process of anointing kings through prophets as a means of softening the blow, the Lord has provided us a Constitution to keep checks and balances in place.  In return, We The People have a tremendous responsibility.  The onus is on us to not only vote, but to campaign, get out the word about good and virtuous candidates.

Bringing it back to the topic of the shortened block:  Many people have complained that the 3 hour block was too onerous.  And they certainly had good arguments for it.  So, the Lord is giving those who requested it ample rope.  So, we need to be careful.  The onus is on us.  We now have a tremendous responsibility.  And the Church is providing ALL SORTS of online support and study materials that are so easy to access.  We asked for it.  We can't fail at this.

Those who were already doing their home study need to also be careful that we do not become lazy because of the easiness of the way.   Let us continue to look and live.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Guest

[JohnsonJones]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

In Elders' Quorum we were discussing the shortened block.  One of the concerns that I had was that those who didn't take the time to study on their own before, probably wouldn't do so now.  And they'd have that much less instruction from scriptures moving forward.

We did discuss several ways to deal with that.  But one response stood out among the others.

When you have a lead role in a large company, you have to know when you need resources to do the job right.  This may simply be more information.  This may be software. This may be funding...  The brother leading the discussion told a story about such.

The Samuel Principle is often thought of the Lord "giving in".  No, it isn't.  It is the Lord giving us greater responsibility.  We could live in a society led by a true Prophet of God where (we are promised) the Lord will remove someone from that position should he ever begin to lead us astray.  But, instead, we live in a democratic society with elected officials.  We want the strong arm of the law to enforce things rather than let the Spirit guide us in all we do.

Just as the Lord provided the process of anointing kings through prophets as a means of softening the blow, the Lord has provided us a Constitution to keep checks and balances in place.  In return, We The People have a tremendous responsibility.  The onus is on us to not only vote, but to campaign, get out the word about good and virtuous candidates.

Bringing it back to the topic of the shortened block:  Many people have complained that the 3 hour block was too onerous.  And they certainly had good arguments for it.  So, the Lord is giving those who requested it ample rope.  So, we need to be careful.  The onus is on us.  We now have a tremendous responsibility.  And the Church is providing ALL SORTS of online support and study materials that are so easy to access.  We asked for it.  We can't fail at this.

Those who were already doing their home study need to also be careful that we do not become lazy because of the easiness of the way.   Let us continue to look and live.

I seen this too.  With many of the decisions I have a growing concern in relation to the children and youth of the church.  Many of the major decisions (Boy Scouts affects the primary boys and young men program, we will see what replaces it, 2 hour block means many children who do not get gospel taught at home will have less of it [and there are a lot of children in that position], and now with pageants that affects those youth that had their testimonies built up by doing pageants) seem to affect a very core group that are the future of the church.

I HOPE it does not mess things up, because with the reduced numbers of increase in the church itself, losing an entire generation would be a very BAD thing right now.

I know the Lord could raise up faithful members from the very stones, but these many of the decisions seem to center on the young upcoming members of the church.

I do feel that much of this is due to members complaining (and in my opinion, perhaps the weakness of members rather than the strength, contrary to what many probably believe or what popular opinion is).  The Lord has shown that if we beg enough for something, he many times will grant it (prime example in church history is Martin Harris and the 116 pages) despite his better advice. 

It could very well be that this is occurring today with many of the new announcements that are coming out in changes with church policies.

[Colirio]

Interesting. 

 

To me this is simple. It will more greatly bless the lives and families of the faithful. 

 

Those who might be less faithful will either fade away or they will recognize that the Spirit is with them less than before and choose to repent. 

 

There is also the hope that due to something being thought of as fresh, new, and exciting might just inspire a few folks to repentant obedience. 

 

Regardless, I am very excited about the potential spiritual growth  from this new program for my family. 

[Anddenex]

The new direction the Church is taking I believe will truly begin to divide the wheat from the tares (within the Church), and those who choose to be wise virgins rather than foolish virgins. The whole change of home teaching to ministering is wonderful and will allow people to fully "act for themselves" within the stewardship given.

The "third hour" now at home, will also be a wonderful hour to "act for ourselves" and hopefully to draw closer as a family in Christ. This will require people to become active learners rather than passive learners. If more become active learners we will see an increase in knowledge and righteousness.

And then your last statement, " Those who were already doing their home study need to also be careful that we do not become lazy because of the easiness of the way.   Let us continue to look and live," is a true sentiment. Let us not be slothful due to the easiness of the way for both ministering and our new third hour.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Anddenex

[Rob Osborn]

19 hours ago, Anddenex said:

The new direction the Church is taking I believe will truly begin to divide the wheat from the tares (within the Church), and those who choose to be wise virgins rather than foolish virgins. The whole change of home teaching to ministering is wonderful and will allow people to fully "act for themselves" within the stewardship given.

The "third hour" now at home, will also be a wonderful hour to "act for ourselves" and hopefully to draw closer as a family in Christ. This will require people to become active learners rather than passive learners. If more become active learners we will see an increase in knowledge and righteousness.

And then your last statement, " Those who were already doing their home study need to also be careful that we do not become lazy because of the easiness of the way.   Let us continue to look and live," is a true sentiment. Let us not be slothful due to the easiness of the way for both ministering and our new third hour.

Perhaps it's opposite. What if the effect is to further protect and strengthen the wheat from the tares (the worldly sinfulness)?

[Anddenex]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Perhaps it's opposite. What if the effect is to further protect and strengthen the wheat from the tares (the worldly sinfulness)?

I would say it is both, not opposite.

[Rob Osborn]

4 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I would say it is both, not opposite.

Aye. I would add that there are some sons of perdition (tares) in the church and tgey are choking the church, even all the sons of God in all religions.

[mikbone]

Ya know what makes people smart - Reading.

Have you heard Ben Carson’s story of how his illiterate mother changed his life by making he and his brother read a book a week and write a report that she pretended to grade.

I have way too much education, finished 25th grade after all was said and done.  Undergrad, Med School, and Residency.  Guess where I learned to be a doctor...  I guarantee it was not in the classroom.  I learned by going home, opening the books and learning the material.  And so did everyone else.  

Furthermore you cannot learn surgery from reading a book.  The books lie.  The pictures are never correct and almost everyone has anatomy that is a little bit different.  You practice medicine because you cannot learn all of it.

Would you let a surgeon work on you if he or she had passively learned the procedure, I doubt it.

The gospel is no doubt the same.  It requires both study and practice.

 

I’ll tell you what, President Nelson is on a roll.  And I get the feeling that he just getting started.  Too bad he isnt in his 70’s.

 

 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, mikbone said:

Have you heard Ben Carson’s story of how his illiterate mother changed his life by making he and his brother read a book a week and write a report that she pretended to grade.

I have way too much education, finished 25th grade after all was said and done.  Undergrad, Med School, and Residency. 

All that education and you still can't get your pronouns correct?

[estradling75]

The Samuel Principle also explains Aaron creating of the Golden Calf.   Think about it...  Aaron is called to be a leader and spokesman for Moses...  Then he creates a Golden Calf for the Israelites to worship.  Moses returns and calls them to repentance, yet in-spite of being a leader, in-spite of creating the Golden Calf nothing happens to Aaron.  The only way this makes any sense is under the Samuel Principle.  Under the idea that Aaron was following the prompting of God to give the Israelite what they wanted to their condemnation.

The Samuel Principle also means that the Promise that the Lord will not ever allow the prophet or leaders to lead us astray... is not quite as reassuring as many would like it to be.  Because the prophets can lead us to condemnation if that is what we ask for.

Don't believe me... just ask Martin Harris how taking the 116 pages with Joseph Smith permission worked for him, Or the Isrealites how the Golden Calf Aaron Created or the Kings Samuel Picked worked for them.

For the current changes that President Nelson is making determining if it is a blessing or a condemnation...  The answer is probably YES... and what path you come down on and declare it to be will probably reflect more on your judgement of your fellow saints then the mind of God.

Either way... blessing or cursing... it is the path we are on now

[JohnsonJones]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

All that education and you still can't get your pronouns correct?

I would say I am a prime example that even if you have years of education it does not mean that you are a genius at grammar or punctuation.  This becomes especially clear when writing casually or quickly.

When I write more formally I need to go over what I write many times with a fine tooth comb, have someone else go over and edit it, and then yet someone else to go through it again just to make sure. 

Informally I am terrible at catching all my mistakes.  This forum probably provides ample example of my terrible grammar and writing.  Sometimes it gets far worse than others.  I can be well written or terrible.  I am appalled when I reread things I wrote when I later return to them often.  I see my blatant mistakes in grammar.  There are other times when I seem to succeed despite my fingers best attempts to sabotage my writing. 

[Guest]

We had a family council yesterday regarding the recent changes.  I brought up the Samuel Principle.  As we read the scriptures regarding Samuel, I was reminded of a very important part of that passage.

The people began by giving Samuel some very valid concerns that they wanted addressed.  They were very good reasons.  Because of this, Samuel had to admit that he knew of no solution.  So, they convinced him to go ask the Lord.

As he did, the Lord's response was:

1) Tell them of the bad stuff that will happen if they have a king.
2) Tell them they should be led by a prophet.
3) If they still want a king, then tell them... this is how it is to be done...

Now, here's the part that stuck out to me:

The people then responded: We wish to be like other nations.

How often do we have very sound reasons and justifications for wanting something contrary to the will of the Lord?  But when push comes to shove, the true underlying motivation was that we really do just reject the Lord anyway?

Think about what evils the world is trying to push on the children of God.  They give some very sound sophistry to support their positions.  But in the end, it is just plain justifying and excusing evil under the guise of logic and reason by the skin of its teeth.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest