My Theory on Who Is the Holy Ghost

[CV75]

32 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

That doesn't answer my question.

That is what tangential questions accomplish.

[Rob Osborn]

23 minutes ago, CV75 said:

That is what tangential questions accomplish.

Let me be specific- how is it the Holy Ghost must be a spirit if He can only be in one place at a time? What exactly is it that dwells in us when we have the Holy Ghost if it's not the HG himself?

[clbent04]

7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Let me be specific- how is it the Holy Ghost must be a spirit if He can only be in one place at a time? What exactly is it that dwells in us when we have the Holy Ghost if it's not the HG himself?

That’s because the term “Holy Spirit” or “Holy Ghost” refers to the spiritual presence of the third member of the Godhead, not His physical location. When you experience feeling the Holy Spirit dwell with inside you, His actual physical presence is somewhere else. You are simply experiencing His spiritual presence. And where is His physical presence? All accounted for in the theory I outlined. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by clbent04

[LePeel]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Let me be specific- how is it the Holy Ghost must be a spirit if He can only be in one place at a time? What exactly is it that dwells in us when we have the Holy Ghost if it's not the HG himself?

Bruce R. McConkie explained it this way, and I'm paraphrasing, the Holy Ghost operates through the medium of the light of Christ, or God's spirit. By the power of God's spirit the Holy Ghost gains omnipresence.

 “The Spirit of the Holy Ghost could be compared to a radio transmitter; you and I, to the radio receivers. The radio waves would be the Spirit of Jesus Christ.”

 

[CV75]

56 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Let me be specific- how is it the Holy Ghost must be a spirit if He can only be in one place at a time? What exactly is it that dwells in us when we have the Holy Ghost if it's not the HG himself?

I answered this before. You also must be a spirit even though you can only be in one place at one time (D&C 93:33). Some spirits just happen to have bodies.

Your spirit has relatively negligible power, scope and influence. The Holy Ghost, being a god and part of the Godhead, has far greater than you. This has nothing to do with physical location since your spiritual wherewithal was established in the pre-mortal estate and carried into this one for improvement. So was his and Jesus’ for that matter, and whatever perfection it could be said that he awaits is akin to the perfection Jesus awaited.

While most of the time unembodied spirits communicate with embodied spirits without inhabiting their bodies, embodied spirits can also invite other spirits to dwell with them in their bodies, but that is very rare.

Our relationship with the Holy Ghost is no different. Receiving him per the confirmation ordinance, which can be fulfilled literally or figuratively, immediately or never – and always requiring our willingness and God’s timing – means both. D&C 130:22-23 refers to both. “Descending upon” is not the same as “dwelling in.” As I said before: Posted 21 hours ago

This shows how tangential questions only prepare the mind of the inquirer to overlook or refuse correct answers, not the failure of the responder to address them.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I answered this before. You also must be a spirit even though you can only be in one place at one time (D&C 93:33). Some spirits just happen to have bodies.

Your spirit has relatively negligible power, scope and influence. The Holy Ghost, being a god and part of the Godhead, has far greater than you. This has nothing to do with physical location since your spiritual wherewithal was established in the pre-mortal estate and carried into this one for improvement. So was his and Jesus’ for that matter, and whatever perfection it could be said that he awaits is akin to the perfection Jesus awaited.

While most of the time unembodied spirits communicate with embodied spirits without inhabiting their bodies, embodied spirits can also invite other spirits to dwell with them in their bodies, but that is very rare.

Our relationship with the Holy Ghost is no different. Receiving him per the confirmation ordinance, which can be fulfilled literally or figuratively, immediately or never – and always requiring our willingness and God’s timing – means both. D&C 130:22-23 refers to both. “Descending upon” is not the same as “dwelling in.” As I said before: Posted 21 hours ago

This shows how tangential questions only prepare the mind of the inquirer to overlook or refuse correct answers, not the failure of the responder to address them.

I'm not seeing where you are addressing the question. Your answer is a mystery in intself and I'm not sure anyone understands what you are saying.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, LePeel said:

Bruce R. McConkie explained it this way, and I'm paraphrasing, the Holy Ghost operates through the medium of the light of Christ, or God's spirit. By the power of God's spirit the Holy Ghost gains omnipresence.

 “The Spirit of the Holy Ghost could be compared to a radio transmitter; you and I, to the radio receivers. The radio waves would be the Spirit of Jesus Christ.”

 

So, if we all are born with the light of Christ, what specifically differentiates those who have the Holy Ghost and those who don't?

[LePeel]

31 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, if we all are born with the light of Christ, what specifically differentiates those who have the Holy Ghost and those who don't?

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/06/i-have-a-question/what-is-the-difference-between-the-holy-ghost-the-spirit-of-christ-and-the-light-of-christ?lang=eng

 

Here's an article that discusses the difference is better than I could.

[CV75]

43 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I'm not seeing where you are addressing the question. Your answer is a mystery in intself and I'm not sure anyone understands what you are saying.

Thank you for speaking for everyone else!

[Rob Osborn]

45 minutes ago, LePeel said:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/06/i-have-a-question/what-is-the-difference-between-the-holy-ghost-the-spirit-of-christ-and-the-light-of-christ?lang=eng

 

Here's an article that discusses the difference is better than I could.

It's interesting that in the article it doesn't speak of the Holy Ghost as a personage inhabiting our souls. It speaks of the gift of the HG working through the medium of the light of Christ. So, and this is why I asked initially- why is the HG a spirit if he doesn't personally inhabit our souls?

[LePeel]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:14 PM, Rob Osborn said:

It's interesting that in the article it doesn't speak of the Holy Ghost as a personage inhabiting our souls. It speaks of the gift of the HG working through the medium of the light of Christ. So, and this is why I asked initially- why is the HG a spirit if he doesn't personally inhabit our souls?

But he does inhabit our souls, spirit is a finer material than that of a physical body, and therefore the Holy Ghost can be in the same physical space that our bodies inhabit. How this is done is beyond our revelations and comprehension at this time.

Edited December 4, 2018 by LePeel

[CV75]

11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

It's interesting that in the article it doesn't speak of the Holy Ghost as a personage inhabiting our souls. It speaks of the gift of the HG working through the medium of the light of Christ. So, and this is why I asked initially- why is the HG a spirit if he doesn't personally inhabit our souls?

And you keep ignoring the answer: He can inhabit our souls as well as any other spirit, but he also functions in many other ways far more commonly experienced and far more often referred to in scripture. The modern curriculum therefore focuses on the preponderance of human experience. You've demonstrated that you cannot have a discussion about his ability to inhabit a person's soul, hence your confusion.

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, LePeel said:

But he does inhabit our souls, spirit is a finer material than that of a physical body, and therefore the Holy Ghost can be in the same physical space that our bodies in inhabit. How this is done is beyond our revelations and comprehension at this time.

But he doesn't. He can only be in one place at a time. The scriptures speak of the Holy Ghost descending upon a person but not tarrying with them. The mystery part is thus- what stays with us? I am sure it's spirit (light and truth) just not the HG actual personage spirit.

[CV75]

5 minutes ago, LePeel said:

But he does inhabit our souls, spirit is a finer material than that of a physical body, and therefore the Holy Ghost can be in the same physical space that our bodies in inhabit. How this is done is beyond our revelations and comprehension at this time.

Maybe the plasticity and frequency of His spirit allows him to expand his properties and habitations beyond what we think is possible.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CV75

[Rob Osborn]

Just now, CV75 said:

Maybe the plasticity of His spirit allows him to expand his properties beyond what we think is possible.

See, this is getting closer to where the mystery part is we don't know about. There's something about spirit matter we are missing and it's tied closely with what gives us the gifts of the spirit.

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

See, this is getting closer to where the mystery part is we don't know about. There's something about spirit matter we are missing and it's tied closely with what gives us the gifts of the spirit.

Well, there is a bit more, but my edit did not take it so I'll leave it at that. At any rate, gifts of the spirit do not necessitate his inhabiting our bodies. You really have to start speaking for yourself before you can ask good questions that you are willing to receive answers to. It's all about personal perception. One man's mystery is another man's matter of fact.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CV75

[LePeel]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

But he doesn't. He can only be in one place at a time. The scriptures speak of the Holy Ghost descending upon a person but not tarrying with them. The mystery part is thus- what stays with us? I am sure it's spirit (light and truth) just not the HG actual personage spirit.

"God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now; Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory" D&C 121:26 

This to me indicates that there was a time when the Holy Ghost didn't tarry with anyone because the gift of the constant companionship of the holy ghost had not yet been given unto man. 

But I must admit, I'm not well-versed enough to know where in the scriptures it talks about the Holy Ghost tarrying not. Would you be so kind as to give me the reference?

[LePeel]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Maybe the plasticity and frequency of His spirit allows him to expand his properties and habitations beyond what we think is possible.

Absolutely could be! I think of it as and instantaneous and ever active link between all men with the gift of the Holy Ghost and the godhead. The light of Christ emanates from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space and is the law and power by which all things are governed. So rather than the Holy Ghost being stretched or filling immensity, he makes deep and intimate and powerful communication with our spirits by this power. And the material attributes of his spiritual body are important to his calling and is necessary that he not have a body of flesh and Bone. 

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Well, there is a bit more, but my edit did not take it so I'll leave it at that. At any rate, gifts of the spirit do not necessitate his inhabiting our bodies. You really have to start speaking for yourself before you can ask good questions that you are willing to receive answers to. It's all about personal perception. One man's mystery is another man's matter of fact.

And yet no one understands the mechanics. We throw around things like "the light of Christ" and "the influence of the Holy Ghost" but yet no one can identify what's happening or how it works. It is indeed a mystery.

[Rob Osborn]

45 minutes ago, LePeel said:

"God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now; Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory" D&C 121:26 

This to me indicates that there was a time when the Holy Ghost didn't tarry with anyone because the gift of the constant companionship of the holy ghost had not yet been given unto man. 

But I must admit, I'm not well-versed enough to know where in the scriptures it talks about the Holy Ghost tarrying not. Would you be so kind as to give me the reference?

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him. (D&C 130:23)

[clbent04]

5 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

And yet no one understands the mechanics. We throw around things like "the light of Christ" and "the influence of the Holy Ghost" but yet no one can identify what's happening or how it works. It is indeed a mystery.

Even if God tried to explain to us the mechanics of the Holy Ghost, I’m not sure we’d be able to comprehend.

Edited December 3, 2018 by clbent04

[LePeel]

6 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him. (D&C 130:23)

Thanks! What I get after reading it is that the Holy Ghost can descend upon individuals who do not have the gift, but will not tarry because they lack the gift. Are you thinking it applies to all people regardless of the gift?

[Rob Osborn]

2 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Thanks! What I get after reading it is that the Holy Ghost can descend upon individuals who do not have the gift, but will not tarry because they lack the gift. Are you thinking it applies to all people regardless of the gift?

I read it that it applies to all people.

[CV75]

11 hours ago, LePeel said:

Absolutely could be! I think of it as and instantaneous and ever active link between all men with the gift of the Holy Ghost and the godhead. The light of Christ emanates from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space and is the law and power by which all things are governed. So rather than the Holy Ghost being stretched or filling immensity, he makes deep and intimate and powerful communication with our spirits by this power. And the material attributes of his spiritual body are important to his calling and is necessary that he not have a body of flesh and Bone. 

 

11 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

And yet no one understands the mechanics. We throw around things like "the light of Christ" and "the influence of the Holy Ghost" but yet no one can identify what's happening or how it works. It is indeed a mystery. 

Who in their right mind would expect to know and understand spiritual mechanics, especially to the point of criticizing and berating our doctrine on the Holy Ghost as always representing a mystery as groundless as the Catholic Trinity? Hogwash. Posted Friday at 10:16 AM

Clearly the restored doctrine is not understood by such a one.

It is otherwise hypocritical to make the covenants and perform the ordinances, because in this realm acting upon spiritual things is about faith, not about mechanical dexterity. This is why I kept pointing out that taking a mechanistic approach to the scriptures is folly.

Here’s a far better working description of what a “mystery” is: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/mystery?lang=eng

“Denotes in the New Testament a spiritual truth that was once hidden but now is revealed and that without special revelation would have remained unknown. It is generally used along with words denoting revelation or publication (Rom. 16:25–26; Eph. 1:9; 3:3–10; Col. 1:26; 4:3; 1 Tim. 3:16). The modern meaning of something incomprehensible forms no part of the significance of the word as it occurs in the New Testament. See also Alma 12:9–11; 40:3; D&C 19:10; 42:61–65; 76:5–10. On the other hand, there is no spiritual gain in idle speculation about things the Lord has not revealed. See Deut. 29:29; Alma 37:11.”

See also: https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Mysteries_of_God. The initiated can identify what is happening in the role and action of the Holy Ghost, and understand how the Holy Ghost works in spiritual terms.

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, CV75 said:

 

Who in their right mind would expect to know and understand spiritual mechanics, especially to the point of criticizing and berating our doctrine on the Holy Ghost as always representing a mystery as groundless as the Catholic Trinity?

You may not believe in the Catholic Trinity but it is disingenuous to call it groundless.