Deadpool

[lostinwater]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

FWIW, I don't believe this. I think the creation of this picture was done intentionally because they knew it would be controversial. And boy howdy did it work.

Thank-you.

Yes, i agree it was done intentionally.  But i guess i tend to think there are layers of motivations.  Like if they saw God in a different way, they wouldn't mock like that intentionally.

i could definitely be wrong, but it seems like at the root of most 'bad and insensitive' behavior is just a lack of understanding, whose roots draw from experiences mostly, rather than any kind of malicious choice.

[The Folk Prophet]

49 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

Thank-you.

Yes, i agree it was done intentionally.  But i guess i tend to think there are layers of motivations.  Like if they saw God in a different way, they wouldn't mock like that intentionally.

i could definitely be wrong, but it seems like at the root of most 'bad and insensitive' behavior is just a lack of understanding, whose roots draw from experiences mostly, rather than any kind of malicious choice.

I don't believe this so much as I believe that people are really good at lying to themselves. When we stand before God in the end I think it will be few and far between where those who have done evil were innocent simply from lack of understanding. I'm sure it'll happen, of course. We know that accountability is related to knowledge, and there will, certainly, be those who did not have knowledge and therefore will not be accountable. But I very much doubt those mocking and fighting against God are really, for the most part, doing it truly unawares. When push comes to shove, I think we'll see a lot of Korihors:

"...and I always knew that there was a God.

"But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me."

[lostinwater]

37 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I don't believe this so much as I believe that people are really good at lying to themselves. When we stand before God in the end I think it will be few and far between where those who have done evil were innocent simply from lack of understanding. I'm sure it'll happen, of course. We know that accountability is related to knowledge, and there will, certainly, be those who did not have knowledge and therefore will not be accountable. But I very much doubt those mocking and fighting against God are really, for the most part, doing it truly unawares. When push comes to shove, I think we'll see a lot of Korihors:

"...and I always knew that there was a God.

"But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me."

You have a good way of getting to fundamental issues very quickly.  i think you beat around the bush far less than i do.   So thank-you for that. 

i guess i don't believe in evil people.  i believe there are extremely broken people.  And i think God is awfully good at healing anyone who will be healed.  And then i think that everyone, eventually will allow that to happen when they know everything.  And by know, i don't mean having had it tossed at them in a pamphlet, or yelled at them in perverted form in a hellfire and damnation sermon.  i mean, like deep, inner, can't deny this, knowing.  And that's a kind of knowing that i don't believe is possible in this life.  i think some will have a much rockier road than others, but that eventually, everyone will make it.  

But, that's a big difference in belief - and i'm certain neither of us will be convinced of the other's point of view.  Definitely respect yours though.  

[The Folk Prophet]

26 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

guess i don't believe in evil people.

You need to get out more. 

[lostinwater]

47 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You need to get out more. 

This is true!   

[unixknight]

13 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

No. I do not.

Sad commentary.

Kind of like I might make a sweeping statement that if someone is apathetic about...say...serving their fellow man, their might be a problem with their spiritual attitude?

The obvious doesn't need doubling down. It is what it is.

Oh, I understand just fine. I'm suggesting you might want to evaluate your relationship with Christ if cruel, mocking things about Him don't offend you. That offends you. If your offense or lack thereof was the primary consideration in the matter then I'd immediately back out. I'm sorry it offends you. I don't want it to offend you. But the fact that it offends you doesn't change what I believe to be correct. Sorry.

 

13 hours ago, Vort said:

Then you obviously misunderstood them, though I am not sure how. I thought they were quite clear. I will try to explain.

The first post that you quote was a reaction to what I understood you to be saying, something like, "Don't take offense at the Hollywood movie poster. Only a fool takes offense at something that wasn't meant to be offensive, and only a really humongous fool takes offense at something that was meant to be offensive." My response was meant to point out two things:

1. That the mere fact that someone points to an offensive display and says, "That's offensive", should be distinguished from the act of taking offense. Recognizing and categorizing something as offensive is not at all the same thing as being offended by it. A picture of the Islamic prophet Muhammed dancing around in a tutu and firing a machine gun is offensive, and I recognize it as such. But it does not offend me personally. It's simply boorish and rude, and I would be embarrassed to see such a display in the company of a Muslim friend or acquaintance.

2. That this saying, though pithy (and not originating with President Young), doesn't really withstand close examination. If God himself takes offense at things, then it is impossible to conclude that taking offense per se is a bad thing.

The second post seems even less likely to be misunderstood. You claimed that comparing the poster to President Kimball's plea was somehow invalid or weak. My post pointed out that, on the contrary, it was quite a strong comparison, and that a mocking poster is likely to be as intrinsically offensive as profaning God's name in word. I then asked why it should be acceptable to voice objection to one but not the other. (The asterisked paragraph had nothing to do with the original response, of course.)

I thought my posts that you quoted were perfectly clear on the above matters. Even on rereading them now, I don't see any element of outrage or expectation that you should join me. Perhaps you can reread those posts and see whether I'm right and you actually read into them things that were not really there. Otherwise, you could perhaps point out to me exactly what it was that indicated to you that I was outraged and looking for converts, so I can learn to avoid such things in the future.

Good morning,  gents. 

So my bottom line (since we got a bit sidetracked last night) is that I find it grossly inappropriate to make sweeping statements about peoples' relationships with Christ simply because they don't react to Hollywood trolls in the same way as you do.  Now, if you're comfortable doing that well, be my guest, just know that your words aren't having the effect you might suppose. 
Is the poster offensive?  Sure it is.  It is so by design, but I'm not going to freak out over what is essentially childish trolling.  Sorry, but I'm not.  And as I said, my relationship with Christ is fine, and it's not for you, @The Folk Prophet, to judge it.  It just isn't.  If at some point I feel the need to discuss that with my Bishop I will, but you ain't he.

And @Vort, I don't really have a problem with your posts I just felt nitpicked.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

I find it grossly inappropriate to make sweeping statements about peoples' relationships with Christ simply because they don't react to Hollywood trolls in the same way as you do.

I find it grossly inept to misunderstand the basic idea that if you've got your head buried in the sand, you might want to consider that your head's buried in the sand.

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

Now, if you're comfortable doing that well, be my guest,

Thanks for your permission. Now I'll sleep easy...whereas before.....

Except...wait. This feels....like its.....not......true.

If I were really, "your guest" to speak as I'd like, would you be reprimanding me for it again and again and again...?? Hmm.

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

just know that your words aren't having the effect you might suppose.

What effect do you suppose that I suppose?

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

Is the poster offensive?  Sure it is.

Which, if you recall, I clearly explained that, in my understanding, considering the poster offensive and being offended by it are the exact same thing. So according to that interpretation you are offended by it, and therefore I'm not talking about you at all, and yet you've decided to go off on this "how dare you judge me!" rant when nothing of the sort has happened.

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

but I'm not going to freak out over what is essentially childish trolling.

No one suggested you "freak out". What was suggested is that the poster is, indeed, offensive. The rest of your hullabaloo is just that.

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

And as I said, my relationship with Christ is fine, and it's not for you, @The Folk Prophet, to judge it.

And, of course, I did not. Suggesting that anyone at any time consider their relationship with Christ and if it is on the standing where it should be is not judging anyone. Suggesting that something that is offensive should be considered offensive is not judging. Suggesting that those who don't find it offensive might want to consider why is not judging.

I explained myself clearly. I gave examples. I clarified. And yet you seem bent on the same seemingly pride-laced, chip-on-the-shoulder anger.

I honestly cannot understand what drives people, particularly supposedly humble, faithful, striving-to-do-and-be-their-best people, to react this way to generalized statements of exhortation. At best it's a misunderstanding. Yet despite clarification of, apparently, misunderstood concepts explained in depth by both myself and @Vort, you barrel on in belligerence. At worst, I'm wrong. In which case, why wouldn't you simply say, "Hmm. I don't agree." And then move on instead of acting like your pride's been wounded to the core?

Somehow, my supposedly "judging" you is horribly offensive and worthy of all the nasty vitriol, but the nasty vitriol, which is clearly exceedingly judgmental of me, is appropriate?

How about you be as understanding of me as you would like me to be of you? How about you stop judging me? How dare you tell me it's not my place to exhort my fellow man to work on their love for God. How dare you, sir!?

What?....too much? Over the top you say? I'm overreacting? It feels like I have some sort of chip on my shoulder?

Indeed.

Finally, I have to ask, if you're such a proponent of not getting offended when you shouldn't, then what on earth is going on here? Because your reaction to my view point sure seems like you've fully jumped on the bandwagon with those who feel expressing their offense is useful.

Edited December 15, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[unixknight]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I find it grossly inept to misunderstand the basic idea that if you've got your head buried in the sand, you might want to consider that your head's buried in the sand.

Honest question:  Has it occurred to you that maybe, juuuust maybe, it's possible that points of view other than your own may have some validity?  Everything with you is a dichotomy.  I think you're wrong to judge other people's relationship with Christ on the basis of their reaction to some ridiculous parody poster, and you double down and justify it.  Now all of those who disagree with you just have our heads buried in the sand and... what?  You're here to tell us we need to do some soul searching so that we can be as enlightened as you are and, by so doing, come to the same conclusions as you?  You CAN'T be that non-self aware... and yet as I look through your last post, I see you accusing me of many of the same things I'm seeing in you.  You've accused me of being angry, of being offended and I suppose hypocritical.  You've accused me of throwing vitriol at you when I've actually been pretty civil.

So I have to wonder, what is it about you that seems to amplify posts that disagree with you to such a villainous extreme?  Others I've spoken to privately have has similar issues with your approach, so it isn't just me. 

I'm not angry at you.  I just think you're wrong.  I think you're comically, extremely wrong, but I don't feel any anger here.  I've told you why I think you're wrong.  You disagree.  Okay, cool.  We can do that.  I'd still give you a place to sleep in my house if you were on the street.  But the more I try to clarify my point, the more you seem intent on characterizing it as some kind of vitriolic rant.  I find that strange, but hey, if that approach seems to work for you, well, go for it.  I  guess.  Are you really so unaccustomed to being stood up to that anytime someone does it it's because they're just some angry, vitriolic meaniepants?

For my part, I enjoy a good debate but it feels now like you're taking it as some kind of mean-spirited attack, which it never was, but okay.  Like I said, I make no bones about the fact that I think you're very wrong to take the attitude of judging other's spiritual state by the degree to which they disagree with you, but I think that's been made clear enough.  I won't belabor it.

Next time you and I exchange posts, which I hope will be soon, do me a favor?  Try assuming that I'm NOT being an angry troll when you read my posts.   You might get the tone more accurately that way.

I don't want to ratchet the argument up any further and I have some work to do for my calling anyway, so I'm gonna go do that.  Enjoy your weekend, brother.

[The Folk Prophet]

I probably made a mistake using "head buried in the sand" as my example of something obvious equating to something obvious, in that you, @unixknight presumed I was saying your head is buried in the sand. That wasn't my point. So that's my failure.

So, here's your last post's points in bullet form:

• I'm so arrogant that I don't think anyone's view if valid but mine
• I'm judgmental
• I think no one is as enlightened as me
• I have no self-awareness
• I'm villianous
• Many people feel the same
• I'm comically wrong
• I'm so unaccustomed to being "stood up" (that's a laugh) that I overreact to everything

But I shouldn't view your post as mean?

I believe it's time for me to walk away from the forum again.

[SilentOne]

On 12/14/2018 at 6:14 PM, unixknight said:

Maybe it's a big deal to you, but to me, it's Tuesday.

On 12/14/2018 at 6:42 PM, SilentOne said:

You might want to take another look at your calendar.

On 12/14/2018 at 6:44 PM, unixknight said:

Why?

It was meant to be a joke because you said

On 12/14/2018 at 6:14 PM, unixknight said:

to me, it's Tuesday.

on a Friday.

[unixknight]

1 minute ago, SilentOne said:

It was meant to be a joke because you said

on a Friday.

Ah.

The "for me, it's Tuesday" thing is actually a meme that originated with the Street Fighter movie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjZ5I8l32CI

 

[SilentOne]

9 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Ah.

The "for me, it's Tuesday" thing is actually a meme that originated with the Street Fighter movie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjZ5I8l32CI

 

Thus a joke.

Edited December 16, 2018 by SilentOne
Changed wording, then decided previous change was unnecessary and changed it back.

[unixknight]

Just now, SilentOne said:

Thus a joke.

Just providing a bit of background for the studio audience. 

[Colirio]

So, is this what passes for "humor" these days? 

 

"Shock humor" is what comedians resort to when their desperate, last resort fart jokes are failing....