Please can I ask your advice on finding a church to attend with my girlfriend.

[AbramM]

3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Beliefs about Jesus and Atonement match.  Would you like to talk about any of the 13 Articles in particular?   (It seems logical to start talking about 1 point where your most interest/concern is, rather than throwing an entire school bus of information at you).  

I don't know if the beliefs about Jesus and Atonement match. 

I disagree with this point. The thing is it isn't necessary for my girlfriend and me to agree on every point of doctrine, my mom and I aren't Calvinists but my father is and it is fine. The thing is she can't have very different beliefs to me to the point it's a different religion. If we can't worship together and attend the same church and raise our children in one church then it isn't going to work for us. 

 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 

[Just_A_Guy]

19 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Okay well if you believe that only members of your church are Saints and partake of the Body of Christ which is the church, then that is fine. I know that I am saved and I partake in the Body of Christ. That's all I can say. 

Fair enough.  I’m not trying to convert you; I’m just trying to help you learn the lingo so you can understand where your girlfriend *might* be coming from.  

[Jane_Doe]

17 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I don't know if the beliefs about Jesus and Atonement match. 

I disagree with this point. The thing is it isn't necessary for my girlfriend and me to agree on every point of doctrine, my mom and I aren't Calvinists but my father is and it is fine. The thing is she can't have very different beliefs to me to the point it's a different religion. If we can't worship together and attend the same church and raise our children in one church then it isn't going to work for us. 

It is possible to be in a LDS-Protestant marriage (as I happily am), but you do want to spend the time to get to know the other person well (including their beliefs) and talk about things before getting married.  

17 minutes ago, AbramM said:

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 

Ok, so I'm going to go over this more in-depth, in 21st century lingo that'll be easier for you to understand.  

In order to to saved, a person first and foremost have faith in Christ.   He is the Lord, the Son of God, and redeemer of mankind.  This faith is the foundation of a Christian life.  Faith is a gift from God, which He offers to each and every person.

Now, once a person accept's God's gift of faith, He tells them "come, follow me".  We leave our old sinful lives behind us, and are reborn in Him.  Hence the second part here is repenting-- allowing your old sinful self to die and turning away from it.     

And the third of being reborn in Christ.  This is shown symbolically in baptism-- the old self is buried and the new self arises out of the water.  All of our old sins are washed away and we take on His name.  Note: it's not the act of getting dunked itself that does any saving, rather Christ does the saving, we are just following His commands. 

The next piece fo this rebirth is the baptism by fire-- having the Gift of the Holy Ghost, so that He may always be with you and always guide you.  

 

 

Any questions on this, places you want me to elaborate, any particular comparisons, or _____ ?

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[anatess2]

32 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Okay well if you believe that only members of your church are Saints and partake of the Body of Christ which is the church, then that is fine. I know that I am saved and I partake in the Body of Christ. That's all I can say. 

I was devout Catholic.  My husband was inactive LDS.  What made me curious about LDS beliefs is when I asked my husband if he’s ready to be baptized Catholic and that’s when he told me No, he’ll never be Catholic.  So I asked him, “Do you think I’m going to hell?”  And he answered, “No. I have a bigger chance of going to hell than you.”.

So yes, the LDS faith is better than your Baptist faith in that regard.  The LDS faith believe you, a Baptist, or even a Jew who is non-Christian, is going to be saved whereas you, a Baptist believes an LDS person is not saved because she doesn’t sound like your brand of “Christian”.  

[AbramM]

6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

It is possible to be in a LDS-Protestant marriage

19 minutes ago, AbramM said:

It sounds messy to me. I don't think I would have found Christ at such a young age if my parents were at logger heads over some beliefs, I think would have ended up confused. I would have to be unified with my wife in key beliefs.

20 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

In order to to saved, a person first and foremost have faith in Christ.

I agree with this 

 

21 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 Now, once a person accept's God's gift of faith, He tells them "come, follow me".  We leave our old sinful lives behind us, and are reborn in Him.  Hence the second part here is repenting-- allowing your old sinful self to die and turning away from it.     

 

Baptists debate this regularly and fiercely. I am on the fence with it. 

 

22 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 And the third of being reborn in Christ.  This is shown symbolically in baptism-- the old self is buried and the new self arises out of the water.  All of our old sins are washed away and we take on His name.  Note: it's not the act of getting dunked itself that does any saving, rather Christ does the saving, we are just following His commands. 

 

I don't believe this is necessary for salvation. 

 

22 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

  The next piece fo this rebirth is the baptism by fire-- having the Gift of the Holy Ghost, so that He may always be with you and always guide you.  

 

 I believe this happens to all believers baptized or not. 

[AbramM]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 So yes, the LDS faith is better than your Baptist faith in that regard.  The LDS faith believe you, a Baptist, or even a Jew who is non-Christian, is going to be saved whereas you, a Baptist believes an LDS person is not saved because she doesn’t sound like your brand of “Christian”.  

I don't know if an LDS person is saved or if a Baptist is saved. That is between an individual and God, regardless of what church a Christian attends. I do not believe non Christians will be saved. I do know that I am saved but I can't judge anyone else, God is judge. 

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by AbramM

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, AbramM said:

It sounds messy to me. I don't think I would have found Christ at such a young age if my parents were at logger heads over some beliefs, I think would have ended up confused. I would have to be unified with my wife in key beliefs.

My husband and I are unified over the important things.   We do disagree on some points, as do your mom and dad.  Our little girl does just fine.

 

11 minutes ago, AbramM said:

34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

In order to to saved, a person first and foremost have faith in Christ.   He is the Lord, the Son of God, and redeemer of mankind.  This faith is the foundation of a Christian life.  Faith is a gift from God, which He offers to each and every person.

I agree with this 

Awesome!  Tis the most important thing!

Quote

34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Now, once a person accept's God's gift of faith, He tells them "come, follow me".  We leave our old sinful lives behind us, and are reborn in Him.  Hence the second part here is repenting-- allowing your old sinful self to die and turning away from it.     

Baptists debate this regularly and fiercely. I am on the fence with it. 

Would it be a deal-breaker if your wife did believe a sinner needs to repent?

Quote

34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

And the third of being reborn in Christ.  This is shown symbolically in baptism-- the old self is buried and the new self arises out of the water.  All of our old sins are washed away and we take on His name.  Note: it's not the act of getting dunked itself that does any saving, rather Christ does the saving, we are just following His commands. 

I don't believe this is necessary for salvation. 

Ok.  Is it a deal-breaker to have a wife who does believe a believer should be baptized.

(Side note: majority of Protestants do believe that repentance and baptism are part of a believer's life.  My husband and I are on the same page in this regard).  

Quote

34 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The next piece fo this rebirth is the baptism by fire-- having the Gift of the Holy Ghost, so that He may always be with you and always guide you.  

I believe this happens to all believers baptized or not. 

Ok.  Speaking personally, my husband holds the same beliefs as you here.  It's not something either of us consider to be a key issue and we don't loose sleep over it.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I don't know if an LDS person is saved or if a Baptist is saved. That is between an individual and God, regardless of what church a Christian attends. I do not believe non Christians will be saved. I do know that I am saved but I can't judge anyone else, God is judge. 

 

Salvation is between an individual and God.  Exactly.  LDS faith believes EVERYONE can be saved, regardless of your religious affiliation or lack thereof.

So this is not about what your girlfriend’s LDS faith thinks of you.  This is about what you and your faith thinks of her.

I’m thinking about this and there’s that possibility that she knew exactly how you would react to her telling you about her faith and that’s why she’s hesitant.  But, like I said, we don’t know any of you, so we’re just guessing here.

Edited March 22, 2019 by anatess2

[AbramM]

3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Salvation is between an individual and God.  Exactly.  LDS faith believes EVERYONE can be saved, regardless of your religious affiliation or lack thereof.

Only Christians will be saved. To say anything other than that is a mockery of Christ's atonement. 

Anyone can become a Christian but those who die without knowing Jesus will not be saved. 

[anatess2]

4 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Only Christians will be saved. To say anything other than that is a mockery of Christ's atonement. 

Anyone can become a Christian but those who die without knowing Jesus will not be saved. 

Well, there ya go.  That could be why she didn’t tell you about her faith.  She probably already knew you won’t get it.

So, just out of curiousity... those native people in the remote Sentinel Island who has never even heard of the word Jesus.... they’re just what... out of luck?

Edited March 22, 2019 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, AbramM said:

Only Christians will be saved. To say anything other than that is a mockery of Christ's atonement. 

Anyone can become a Christian but those who die without knowing Jesus will not be saved. 

This brings us to the classical question: what if a person never has the opportunity to hear about Christ and accept Him?  

Christians have a wide variety of answers to that question.

The LDS Christian answer is: God, being eternally just, does not condemn a person because they have never had the opportunity to hear about Christ and accept Him.  Therefore, He paves the way for ALL persons to hear about Christ and accept Him, whether that opportunity happens in this mortal life or after.

[AbramM]

7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Would it be a deal-breaker if your wife did believe a sinner needs to repent?

Quote

Probably not. 

8 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Ok.  Is it a deal-breaker to have a wife who does believe a believer should be baptized.

 

I believe that a believer should be baptized, however I don't believe it is necessary for salvation. 

10 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 (Side note: majority of Protestants do believe that repentance and baptism are part of a believer's life.  My husband and I are on the same page in this regard).  

Quote

I don't think that is true. The majority of Protestants believe in Salvation through grace alone not by our own works. Baptism is a work, repentance to a point is a work. I wouldn't want my wife to teach our children a works based gospel. So it would be a deal breaker. 

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, AbramM said:

 

I don't think that is true. The majority of Protestants believe in Salvation through grace alone not by our own works. Baptism is a work, repentance to a point is a work. I wouldn't want my wife to teach our children a works based gospel. So it would be a deal breaker. 

Ah yea.  If your girlfriend is a faithful LDS and she knows this about you, it’s understandable why she didn’t tell you about her faith.  We do a loooot of work.  We make covenants, we minister, we baptize, we ordain, we seal, etc etc etc...

Edited March 22, 2019 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I don't think that is true. The majority of Protestants believe in Salvation through grace alone not by our own works. Baptism is a work, repentance to a point is a work. I wouldn't want my wife to teach our children a works based gospel. So it would be a deal breaker. 

You are mixing up a couple of different topics here.  Let me clarify LDS Christian beliefs here--

1) Salvation is a gift from God, by His grace.

2) Nobody can work their way to Heaven.  Such an idea is downright laughable.

3) Faith is an action word.  Living faith does include action.  A person is not baptized because they are trying to work their way to heaven.  Rather, they are baptized because their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ commanded it and they follow Him.  Likewise with repentance. 

It is not a "work based gospel", rather a Gospel of living faith in Christ.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

You are mixing up a couple of different topics here.  Let me clarify LDS Christian beliefs here--

 1) Salvation is a gift from God, by His grace.

 2) Nobody can work their way to Heaven.  Such an idea is downright laughable.

 3) Faith is an action word.  Living faith does include action.  A person is not baptized because they are trying to work their way to heaven.  Rather, they are baptized because their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ commanded it and they follow Him.  Likewise with repentance. 

You were saying baptism and repentance are necessary for salvation. 

[AbramM]

 

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 If your girlfriend is a faithful LDS and she knows this about you, it’s understandable why she didn’t tell you about her faith

It is never acceptable to deceive someone you love. Also, she shouldn't hide what she believes if she believes it to be true. 

8 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 We do a loooot of work

Nothing wrong with that. It is wrong to believe that works will save you, that is what I wouldn't want her to believe. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by AbramM

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, AbramM said:

You were saying baptism and repentance are necessary for salvation. 

A disciple of Christ is a follower of Christ (that's the definition of disciple).  True living faith isn't that wherein a person says whimsically "yeah I believe in Christ" and then completely ignore Him to live the same-old life of sin and following mammon.  

Again, your works are NOT what saves you.  Rather it is faith-- real living faith in Christ-- that the old sinner dies and the new disciple of Christ emerges.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

 

16 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

So, just out of curiousity... those native people in the remote Sentinel Island who has never even heard of the word Jesus.... they’re just what... out of luck?

They are sinners in need of salvation. 

[AbramM]

4 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

A disciple of Christ is a follower of Christ (that's the definition of disciple).  True living faith isn't that wherein a person says whimsically "each I believe in Christ" and then completely ignore Him to live the same-old life of sin and following mammon.  

That person is probably not a christian. Our works should show that we are a new creation in Christ and it is sad when a Christians works don't show that. However, that doesn't mean they wont be saved. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, AbramM said:

That person is probably not a christian. Our works should show that we are a new creation in Christ and it is sad when a Christians works don't show that. However, that doesn't mean they wont be saved. 

For LDS Christians, part of that accepting Christ and becoming the new creation is following His command to baptized.  We don't ignore our King's commands.  

Stressing this again--- the mere act of getting dunked isn't going saving anyone.  It is faith that saves.  Living faith.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Alia]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

For LDS Christians, part of that accepting Christ and becoming the new creation is following His command to baptized.  We don't ignore our King's commands.  

Do you believe it necessary for salvation? I think is what Abram is getting at. I grew up in Baptist church and it was never taught that you had to be baptised to be saved. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Alia

[Jane_Doe]

6 minutes ago, Alia said:

Do you believe it necessary for salvation? 

A disciple of Christ is not a person who ignores Him to instead make out with Satan all day long.  A fruitless faith is dead.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Alia]

On a side note my mom is a Baptist and my dad was an inactive LDS. When he became active again they divorced quite soon after. I know it appears that the religions can be comprisable and compatible but I don't think they are.  

[AbramM]

1 minute ago, Alia said:

Do you believe it necessary for salvation? I think is what Abram is getting at. I grew up in Baptist church and it was never taught that you had to be baptised to be saved. 

Yeah exactly for me it is 100% something a Christian should do but if for whatever reason someone doesn't have a baptism they will still be saved. 

[Alia]

2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

A disciple of Christ is not a person who ignores Him to instead make out with Satan all day long.  You yourself acknowledged that.  

Yes as I am LDS I have a different view to Abram but I do understand where he is coming from. 

I used to be a Baptist and despite my dad being LDS my mom always kept me apart from it, when I first heard about the beliefs whilst at college it was like information overload. The Baptist gospel is simple, the LDS gospel was a minefield.