Please can I ask your advice on finding a church to attend with my girlfriend.

[prisonchaplain]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:46 AM, AbramM said:

I know that even for some of my baptist friends, when I told them I was going to look for another church to attend (with my girlfriend), they were like "what are you doing?' "Aren't you happy here?". I think for them their identity as a christian comes a lot from the baptist church and they are more likely to say they are baptists than christians. For me it's not that way and I hope my girlfriend doesn't have her loyalty or faith in a specific church but in Jesus Christ, then it will be easy for us to find a church.  

Most churches are made up of people who become tightly knit. We are brothers and sisters in the Lord, after all. So, it may just be that your church family find it disconcerting that you would easily jump around (from their perspective). I'm not a Christian because of my church, but I do bond with my church family because I am a Christian. LDS have some very unique beliefs, based upon revelations Joseph Smith said he received. He established a new church (or God did through him), and what has developed is a multi-million member movement that teaches a religious path to what is deemed the highest part of the highest heaven. They do not criticize those of us that continue in classic Christianity, but they believe that Joseph Smith, and other church prophets who followed him brought added understanding--including 3 new scriptures (Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price). So...you really might want to learn the basics of this church and decide if you believe in it or not. You can continue to post here, check out lds.org, or even invite LDS missionaries to give you some teachings that will cover the basics. I'm not a member, but you should have a good understanding of what you will come to accept or not, so you can better understand your fiance.

[AbramM]

12 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

This may be worth a whole new string, but I find it very appropriate to identify LDS as another category along side Orthdoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism, rather than as a denomination or sect within Protestantism.

Yes Chaplain I agree with you but I didn't know anything about the LDS church and I just thought it was a Protestant denomination. Due to the use of the word saint I assumed it had some Calvinist background. 

[AbramM]

48 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Pre-marriage counselling is a good thing. The fact that you don't want to communicate (share information, ask questions...) things with your girlfriend says that you are not ready to get married. You seem very immature when it comes to communication, which is very important in a marriage. Don't be afraid to talk with your girlfriend/fiancee.

 M.

I feel I have been very clear with her about my beliefs to her and what has to happen before we get married. She hasn't communicated well with me though. 

[prisonchaplain]

1 minute ago, AbramM said:

Yes Chaplain I agree with you but I didn't know anything about the LDS church and I just thought it was a Protestant denomination. Due to the use of the word saint I assumed it had some Calvinist background. 

Just the opposite. Joseph Smith taught that free will is correct. In fact, the church calls it agency, and believes that our ability to choose is so important that Adam & Eve pre-planned taking the forbidden fruit in a pre-existing state, before God created the heavens and the earth.

[AbramM]

55 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

It can be difficult these days to find someone who actually takes their love of the Lord seriously. 

 

It is sad. I want to marry a woman who fears the Lord. 

55 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

 The only one that probably knows what is and what could happen is the Lord.

Amen brother 

[prisonchaplain]

1 minute ago, AbramM said:

I feel I have been very clear with her about my beliefs to her and what has to happen before we get married. She hasn't communicated well with me though. 

Get her to...lovingly, of course. You may also want to discern just how committed she is to her LDS upbringing. It may be that she is not so devout. If not, though, you may also want to discuss how committed she is to Jesus. You know...is she born again? Many LDS now embrace the term, because within their church's faith community, they have asked Jesus to forgive their sins and empower them to walk within the light they have received. If she hesitates, or is uncertain, then you may really be grappling with you having a Christian faith that is quite serious, and her having a vague, less certain faith understanding. Of course, I don't know what her standing actually is. If you are to marry her, you will want to, though. Yes?

[AbramM]

4 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Just the opposite. Joseph Smith taught that free will is correct. In fact, the church calls it agency, and believes that our ability to choose is so important that Adam & Eve pre-planned taking the forbidden fruit in a pre-existing state, before God created the heavens and the earth.

Chaplain I don't even know who Joseph Smith is. 

[prisonchaplain]

3 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Chaplain I don't even know who Joseph Smith is. 

Perhaps you can devote just over an hour to watching: Joseph Smith Prophet of the Restoration. It's on YouTube and Amazon Prime. Better yet, watch it with your fiance, and then discuss it. Using a movie may open her up to sharing her faith.

Edited March 23, 2019 by prisonchaplain

[Jane_Doe]

@AbramM I do need to be frank here to convey the point.  Please don't take this at anything but me speaking forwardly to you, as a person who is literally in an Protestant-LDS marriage.

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I don't know what you mean by Priest, but I am considering going into ministry so I will be a Priest too   When I get married I will be the spiritual leader of my family, whilst my wife would be welcome to seek counsel from whoever she feels comfortable with, I wouldn't be comfortable with another man stepping in to fulfil her spiritual needs I can't meet. I wouldn't want to be married to someone if I couldn't fulfil their spiritual needs.   

LDS Christians have very specific beliefs about priesthood authority and only acknowledge that line as being authoritative.  While I acknowledge that @prisonchaplain is an Assemblies of God chaplain (that's literally his job) and he is my friend, I do not believe that he any valid priesthood authority.  As long as my husband is a Baptist, he can NEVER fulfill that role for me.  He is my best friend whom I talk with and consult with on everything, but if I need a priesthood blessing he cannot provide, and I need to drive down the street to visit Steve. 

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

<nothing said>

I noticed that you skipped over my comment about how your marriage will only be a legal contract.  Which is a big deal for LDS Christians who believe SO much in family being forever-- those bonds between husband & wife & children continuing on forever is HUGELY important.  Your legal contract only last until death.   

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

IThat wouldn't work for me, church time is family time. All the family should be there. A child can't alternate between churches every week and a couple need to worship the Lord together, otherwise what is the point in marriage. 

For sure she will always be able to go to LDS church, she can even go after we go to a different church service together. Christenings, weddings, carol services etc we can go to. 

Aka: "girl, I insist we go to church together, but I refuse to accept the beliefs you hold dearly, therefore you must convert to my beliefs".

Your girl friend is NOT a Protestant!  She (if she holds standard LDS Christian beleifs) does NOT believe in a silent God, but rather a living God who continues to speak and give scripture.  That families can be FOREVER, not fleeting legal contracts.  She does not uphold the Creeds.  She believes prophets walk the earth today.  And so many other differences.  

That strength and convection to her beliefs that you so admire-- do NOT ask her to give that up at all.  Either love her as who see is (an LDS Christian) or walk away.   

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

For me growing up it meant everything to me that my parents believed largely the same thing. Gods law was everything in our home, we would have biblical conversations out of nowhere that would have been stifled if my mom had to be like "wait this contradicts what your dad believes so I better wait until he is around". 

We have conversations about the Bible AND Book of Mormon, regardless of who's around.  Open and respectful, even when there's disagreements.  

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

My mom wouldn't be like that she is a nice lady and agrees with me that whether someone is a Christian or not is to do with their relationship with God not the church they attend. Although, she wouldn't be thrilled if I married someone from the LDS church. She thinks my girlfriend is a protestant like us. 

Your girlfriend is an LDS Christian.  Love her (which includes her beliefs) or walk away.

You also haven't mentioned her family at all.

23 minutes ago, AbramM said:

For me marriage is about serving the Lord. If I can serve the Lord better on my own than with my girlfriend then why would I marry her. Same for her. If marriage to her means we have to put in lots of work into our marriage such that it detracts from our service to the Lord then that is bad and not what the Lord wants.  

...dude, marriage is ALWAYS a lot of work.  Even if you marry somebody who sat next to you in the church pews since you were both in diapers.  

[AbramM]

2 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Get her to...lovingly, of course. You may also want to discern just how committed she is to her LDS upbringing. It may be that she is not so devout. If not, though, you may also want to discuss how committed she is to Jesus. You know...is she born again? Many LDS now embrace the term, because within their church's faith community, they have asked Jesus to forgive their sins and empower them to walk within the light they have received. If she hesitates, or is uncertain, then you may really be grappling with you having a Christian faith that is quite serious, and her having a vague, less certain faith understanding. Of course, I don't know what her standing actually is. If you are to marry her, you will want to, though. Yes?

Yes of course I will help her with her faith  I clearly see her love for Jesus in the way she lives her life. I don't know how strong she stands in her faith but we can work through that together. 

[Jane_Doe]

5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Perhaps you can devote just over an hour to watching: Joseph Smith Prophet of the Restoration. It's on YouTube and Amazon Prime. Better yet, watch it with your fiance, and then discuss it. Using a movie may open her up to sharing her faith.

Link:

https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2011-03-01-joseph-smith-the-prophet-of-the-restoration?lang=eng

[Maureen]

25 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I feel I have been very clear with her about my beliefs to her and what has to happen before we get married. She hasn't communicated well with me though. 

@AbramM, I don't know how long you and your girlfriend have known each other, how long you dated or how long you have been engaged. If it has only been weeks then it's understandable that you were ignorant of your girlfriend's Church's history and beliefs. But if you have known each other for months and close to at least a year, then your ignorance regarding her faith is also on you. In that amount of time, you should have at least been interested enough to have asked your girlfriend questions about her faith and not just assumed.

M.

[AbramM]

1 hour ago, Maureen said:

@AbramM, I don't know how long you and your girlfriend have known each other, how long you dated or how long you have been engaged. If it has only been weeks then it's understandable that you were ignorant of your girlfriend's Church's history and beliefs. But if you have known each other for months and close to at least a year, then your ignorance regarding her faith is also on you. In that amount of time, you should have at least been interested enough to have asked your girlfriend questions about her faith and not just assumed.

M.

We first me in late September, we went to each others churches in late October, I asked her to start coming to the weekly Bible study I run at my house and she started coming to that. I asked her to marry me in late January. I did ask her lots about her faith, not doctrinal points overly though because I thought she was a Protestant so I figured that we would agree on most things. But I did ask her a lot about what scriptures she was reading and how her walk with Jesus was etc. 

Edited March 23, 2019 by AbramM

[AbramM]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

LDS Christians have very specific beliefs about priesthood authority and only acknowledge that line as being authoritative.  While I acknowledge that @prisonchaplain is an Assemblies of God chaplain (that's literally his job) and he is my friend, I do not believe that he any valid priesthood authority.  As long as my husband is a Baptist, he can NEVER fulfill that role for me.  He is my best friend whom I talk with and consult with on everything, but if I need a priesthood blessing he cannot provide, and I need to drive down the street to visit Steve. 

Well it is up to my girlfriend, if she wants to keep with her LDS beliefs and believe that I have no biblical authority then we can't get married. I'm not going to marry a woman whose beliefs prevent me having spiritual authority in our home. It's a husband's job to be the spiritual guide not some random neighbor. 

 

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

I noticed that you skipped over my comment about how your marriage will only be a legal contract.  Which is a big deal for LDS Christians who believe SO much in family being forever-- those bonds between husband & wife & children continuing on forever is HUGELY important.  Your legal contract only last until death.   

I didn't respond as I didn't know what you meant. It's not a legal contract at all. I will make promises to my wife as and to God. That's not a legal contract that is an oath I am taking, I wouldn't only be promising my wife that I will love her I'm promising God that I will love my wife too. Yes I don't believe there are marriages in heaven.

 

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

Your girlfriend is an LDS Christian.  Love her (which includes her beliefs) or walk away.

You also haven't mentioned her family at all.

I have made it clear to her that we find a church we can both attend or there is no marriage. After speaking to her yesterday she seems willing to do that. Only problem I have is trusting her not to go back on her word once we are married. 

Her mom isn't religous and they aren't close and her dad did go to LDS church but he passed away a few years ago. She has a brother but he has been away doing mission work so I've never met him.

[Alia]

5 hours ago, AbramM said:

Why do you think I shouldn't marry her? 

 

You seem very committed to your faith, which is a great thing. In my humble opinion from having parents who were of different faiths, inter-faith marriage just doesn't work. I appreciate that it may not seem like an inter-faith marriage because you both go by the name Christian but it is. 

 

[Jane_Doe]

14 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Well it is up to my girlfriend, if she wants to keep with her LDS beliefs and believe that I have no biblical authority then we can't get married. I'm not going to marry a woman whose beliefs prevent me having spiritual authority in our home. It's a husband's job to be the spiritual guide not some random neighbor. 

Guide verses priest are two different things.  My husband is my partner at home, but he is not an ordained priest.  He (for one example) cannot bless the Lord's Supper, because he does not have that priesthood authority.  I would need to go to a priest for that.

14 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I didn't respond as I didn't know what you meant. It's not a legal contract at all. I will make promises to my wife as and to God. That's not a legal contract that is an oath I am taking, I wouldn't only be promising my wife that I will love her I'm promising God that I will love my wife too. Yes I don't believe there are marriages in heaven.

LDS Christians do not believe that marriage ends at death.  It is an entirely different mindset and level of commitment.  

14 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I have made it clear to her that we find a church we can both attend or there is no marriage. After speaking to her yesterday she seems willing to do that. Only problem I have is trusting her not to go back on her word once we are married. 

Her mom isn't religous and they aren't close and her dad did go to LDS church but he passed away a few years ago. She has a brother but he has been away doing mission work so I've never met him.

I would HIGHLY recommend that you meet with the missionaries yourself and learn about LDS Christian beliefs.  Even if your girlfriend converts faiths (which is what you are asking her to do) to be a Protestant, LDS Christians will be part of your life and you need learn love and respect them.  Such might also be the catalyst to help you and your girlfriend have the very needed in depth conversations.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

10 minutes ago, Alia said:

 I appreciate that it may not seem like an inter-faith marriage because you both go by the name Christian but it is. 

 

I am starting to realize that it isn't just small differences. I still have hope that we will find a church we both like but it is looking unlikely

[Jane_Doe]

3 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I am starting to realize that it isn't just small differences. I still have hope that we will find a church we both like but it is looking unlikely

Again: LDS Christians are not Protestants.  If you insist on having a Protestant wife and raising Protestant children teaching the 5 Solas and to recite Creeds, she is not that.

If you'd be willing to talk about things with her, and reach an understanding of her background, and a middle ground moving forward, that is possible.  

You really need to talk with her about this.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Even if your girlfriend converts faiths (which is what you are asking her to do) to be a Protestant, LDS Christians will be part of your life and you need learn love and respect them.  

It's her call. 

I love every one as Christ says to. 

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, AbramM said:

It's her call. 

I love every one as Christ says to. 

Are you willing to sit down with missionaries and learn about LDS Christian beliefs?  Again, even if she converts faiths, LDS Christians will be in your life always, just like Baptists will always be in mine if my husband were to convert.

[AbramM]

6 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Protestant children teaching the 5 Solas and to recite Creeds, she is not that.

Embarrassingly I don't even know what the 5 Solas are and the only Creed I have ever recited is the song by Hillsong. 

I do believe that a Godly mother is essential to lead children to Christ. So it is important to me that my wife is teaching our children our beliefs. 

10 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

you'd be willing to talk about things with her, and reach an understanding of her background, and a middle ground moving forward, that is possible.  

You really need to talk with her about this.

Yeah I'm going to speak to her again. I was meant to see her tonight but I cancelled because I want to spend the evening in prayer.

 

9 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Are you willing to sit down with missionaries and learn about LDS Christian beliefs?

I don't want to but if my girlfriend asked me to, I may agree to. I would have to pray about it first obviously. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, AbramM said:

Embarrassingly I don't even know what the 5 Solas are and the only Creed I have ever recited is the song by Hillsong. 

I do believe that a Godly mother is essential to lead children to Christ. So it is important to me that my wife is teaching our children our beliefs. 

Yeah I'm going to speak to her again. I was meant to see her tonight but I cancelled because I want to spend the evening in prayer.

 

I don't want to but if my girlfriend asked me to, I may agree to. I would have to pray about it first obviously. 

 

Ok, so you don't much about Protestantism either.  That's ok.    As @prisonchaplain suggested, some serious scripture study and prayer will be very good for both of you -- miraculous even. Your desires here are GREAT, but study & prayer & communication are very much needed.  May God ever be with you.

[Maureen]

48 minutes ago, AbramM said:

...I have made it clear to her that we find a church we can both attend or there is no marriage. After speaking to her yesterday she seems willing to do that. Only problem I have is trusting her not to go back on her word once we are married...

Here's a thought. Why don't the two of you check out Community of Christ. I am adding a link so you can check them out and find a congregation in your area. Hopefully the link is acceptable with the forum rules.

http://www.cofchrist.org/what-we-believe

M.

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, Maureen said:

Here's a thought. Why don't the two of you check out Community of Christ. I am adding a link so you can check them out and find a congregation in your area. Hopefully the link is acceptable with the forum rules.

http://www.cofchrist.org/what-we-believe

M.

Community of Christ is neither Protestant Christian nor LDS Christian, so I don't think it will make either of them happy.

[AbramM]

7 minutes ago, Maureen said:

Here's a thought. Why don't the two of you check out Community of Christ. I am adding a link so you can check them out and find a congregation in your area. Hopefully the link is acceptable with the forum rules.

http://www.cofchrist.org/what-we-believe

M.

Oh it looks good. I don't know what the Book of Mormon or the other scripture mentioned besides the bible is but as long as they are devotional books we can try that church:)