AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, Alia said: I do miss hanging out with Baptist women they say the funniest things. My mom quotes scripture all the time even for ridiculous things I don't like to say Baptists are the best at anything but we are the best at quoting scripture 😂probably because we were made to memorize so much when we were young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 I am sorry I can't explain it very well on my own but below is a summary of what I believe regarding the Trinity and it defines being. The doctrine of the Trinity is simply that there is one eternal being of God – indivisible, infinite. This one being of God is shared by three co-equal, co-eternal persons, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. It is necessary here to distinguish between the terms “being” and “person.” It would be a contradiction, obviously, to say that there are three beings within one being, or three persons within one person. So what is the difference? We clearly recognize the difference between being and person every day. We recognize what something is, yet we also recognize individuals within a classification. For example, we speak of the “being” of man—human being. A rock has “being”—the being of a rock, as does a cat, a dog, etc. Yet, we also know that there are personal attributes as well. That is, we recognize both “what” and “who” when we talk about a person. The Bible tells us there are three classifications of personal beings—God, man, and angels. What is personality? The ability to have emotion, will, to express oneself. Rocks cannot speak. Cats cannot think of themselves over against others, and, say, work for the common good of “cat kind.” Hence, we are saying that there is one eternal, infinite being of God, shared fully and completely by three persons, Father, Son and Spirit. Onewhat, three who’s. NOTE: We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this! The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows: 1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable. 2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture – the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another – that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons. 3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity—that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. Maureen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, unixknight said: I respect your desire to not offend, but at the same time I feel like you guys would really benefit a lot from some more openness in your communication. And to be fair, I acknowledge that if you got this far with dating that LDS girl without knowing who Joseph Smith was, that says more about her inability to communicate openly than anything else. I don't know if she feels unsafe telling you these things, out of a fear that you'll dismiss her and her beliefs, or whether she just isn't good at communication. I dunno, and I won't speculate. I leave all that to you. Well I think she was trying to deceive me. You know even if she wasn't i'm hurting because I thought our relationship was stronger than that and we could talk about anything. If her faith and religion is a big part of her life, then she shouldn't have hid so much about it from me. I feel betrayed. 42 minutes ago, unixknight said: As others have suggested, I'd also recommend that you gain a deeper knowledge of that before you make any decisions, and that the best way to do it is to ask the missionaries over. They're well equipped to answer these kinds of questions and present this information to someone who hasn't heard it before. I don't know brother I already told her in January my conditions for marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, AbramM said: I don't like to say Baptists are the best at anything but we are the best at quoting scripture 😂probably because we were made to memorize so much when we were young My fave is when they give commentary after the verse. The other day my mom and I were talking about prayer and she goes, "The prayers of a righteous man availeth much. And I love the word much". Or when someone annoys her and her idea of an insult is to passively aggressively say "I'm going to pray for you". AbramM 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Alia said: My fave is when they give commentary after the verse. The other day my mom and I were talking about prayer and she goes, "The prayers of a righteous man availeth much. And I love the word much". Or when someone annoys her and her idea of an insult is to passively aggressively say "I'm going to pray for you". Lol I love it when my mom is complaining about something someone has done and my dad reminds her that the bible says we should forgive and my mom replies "the bible doesn't say when to forgive". There's something about being a Baptist and being a mom, that sends them a bit crazy. Alia and unixknight 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, AbramM said: Well I think she was trying to deceive me. You know even if she wasn't i'm hurting because I thought our relationship was stronger than that and we could talk about anything. If her faith and religion is a big part of her life, then she shouldn't have hid so much about it from me. I feel betrayed. I can understand that. If she was being deceptive, then I'd venture to say you guys have other issues to work out first. 13 minutes ago, AbramM said: I don't know brother I already told her in January my conditions for marriage. I know, I'm just saying it would be worth your time to do this, even if only for your personal edification. After all, this is part of who she has always been. Isn't it worthwhile to help understand her better? Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, unixknight said: I can understand that. If she was being deceptive, then I'd venture to say you guys have other issues to work out first. 33 minutes ago, AbramM said: It's a mess I barely slept for 3 days 19 minutes ago, unixknight said: I know, I'm just saying it would be worth your time to do this, even if only for your personal edification. After all, this is part of who she has always been. Isn't it worthwhile to help understand her better? Maybe it depends if we work through our differences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, unixknight said: I can understand that. If she was being deceptive, then I'd venture to say you guys have other issues to work out first. I know, I'm just saying it would be worth your time to do this, even if only for your personal edification. After all, this is part of who she has always been. Isn't it worthwhile to help understand her better? It is also possible that she was not being deceptive. Just because she was born and raised in the church does not mean shares the beliefs we have outlined. Maybe she has a different set... or maybe she is still figuring out what she believes vs what she was taught.. The only way to do figure that out is to talk to her in a way where is is comfortable sharing. JohnsonJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, estradling75 said: It is also possible that she was not being deceptive. Just because she was born and raised in the church does not mean shares the beliefs we have outlined. Maybe she has a different set... or maybe she is still figuring out what she believes vs what she was taught.. The only way to do figure that out is to talk to her in a way where is is comfortable sharing. Yeah that's true. It just seemed like a very glaring omission to have left out who Joseph Smith is. And who knows, maybe the missionaries visiting would do her a world of good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 30 minutes ago, AbramM said: Well I think she was trying to deceive me. You know even if she wasn't i'm hurting because I thought our relationship was stronger than that and we could talk about anything. If her faith and religion is a big part of her life, then she shouldn't have hid so much about it from me. I feel betrayed. Obviously I don't know your girl, and there could be a million things going on. Here's a list of possible things going on, just off the top of my head-- 1) Like you, she could simply not know the difference and not be very studied. 2) Your conversations could just have alway been hanging out in that most-important core ground (like everything you have expressed here about your beliefs has been in that core ground). 3) She could not share parts of orthodox LDS Christian beliefs. 4) She could be afraid of rejection. 5) She could have been trying to share (such as inviting you to church) and either not being heard and/or not knowing how to go about it better. And there's other possibilities too. Only communicating with her will illuminate things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, unixknight said: Yeah that's true. It just seemed like a very glaring omission to have left out who Joseph Smith is. And who knows, maybe the missionaries visiting would do her a world of good too. I just found out what the Book of Mormon is yesterday. I knew it was a musical and then when I saw some at church with her I thought they were devotional books. Like you get at Methodist church with select prayers the whole congregation read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 Just now, AbramM said: I just found out what the Book of Mormon is yesterday. I knew it was a musical and then when I saw some at church with her I thought they were devotional books. Like you get at Methodist church with select prayers the whole congregation read. The musical is written by the same guys that make "South Park" and it's cut out of that exact same cloth. Doesn't have too much to do with the actual religious book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: 5) She could have been trying to share (such as inviting you to church) and either not being heard and/or not knowing how to go about it better. And there's other possibilities too. Only communicating with her will illuminate things. She didn't even invite me to church I offered to go with her to try it and at the time she wasn't too keen on me going with her. I honestly don't think she had any intention if telling me she was LDS. The thing is she doesn't even really have friends as her church everyone there is kind of old, so I just don't get if she isn't serious about LDS beliefs then why doesn't she come with me to try new churches for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: The musical is written by the same guys that make "South Park" and it's cut out of that exact same cloth. Doesn't have too much to do with the actual religious book. I know what it is now. I'm a one Holy book man though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: The musical is written by the same guys that make "South Park" and it's cut out of that exact same cloth. Doesn't have too much to do with the actual religious book. I know what it is now. I'm a one Holy book man though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, AbramM said: She didn't even invite me to church I offered to go with her to try it and at the time she wasn't too keen on me going with her. I honestly don't think she had any intention if telling me she was LDS. The thing is she doesn't even really have friends as her church everyone there is kind of old, so I just don't get if she isn't serious about LDS beliefs then why doesn't she come with me to try new churches for us. There's a variety of possible reasons. Fear of rejection (either by you or by church members) is pretty likely. 4 minutes ago, AbramM said: I know what it is now. I'm a one Holy book man though. I'm a God is still living and still speaking like always gal. To me, the idea that God would change and stop speaking is... suffice it to say not what I believe. I take comfort in knowing that God never changes and that I can go listen to His prophets today (like literally I could turn on something today). Edited March 25, 2019 by Jane_Doe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbramM Posted March 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: There's a variety of possible reasons. Fear of rejection (either by you or by church members) is pretty likely. Either way she wasn't honest with me and I think she knows that. 7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: m a God is still living and still speaking like always gal. To me, the idea that God would change and stop speaking is... suffice it to say not what I believe. Do you think I believe God is dead? God speaks to me all the time 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 3/24/2019 at 3:27 PM, AbramM said: I am 20. It is hard to find women who follow the Lord closely though. You do not realize the blessing your are walking in, my brother. There are far more female high-teen-to-20-somethings looking for a godly man than vice versa. My oldest (18) just get accepted to the Grand Canyon University, in AZ. It looks like there is a 2:1 female/male ratio. In the honors college it's more like 3:1. Involve yourself in the work of the Lord, in missions, in faithful church service. The LORD will provide, and His timing will be perfect. JohnsonJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, AbramM said: Either way she wasn't honest with me and I think she knows that. Then this is not about religion. This is about trust. We can't help you there. So, really... you guys need to TALK. We're only hearing your side here. It's kinda unfair to the girl how we've railroaded your relationship because we told you things she wasn't prepared to tell you herself. 17 minutes ago, AbramM said: Do you think I believe God is dead? God speaks to me all the time 😀 Faithful LDS do not believe God is dead to anybody - even those who profess God is dead. Interesting, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, AbramM said: I am sorry I can't explain it very well on my own but below is a summary of what I believe regarding the Trinity and it defines being. The doctrine of the Trinity is simply that there is one eternal being of God – indivisible, infinite. This one being of God is shared by three co-equal, co-eternal persons, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. It is necessary here to distinguish between the terms “being” and “person.” It would be a contradiction, obviously, to say that there are three beings within one being, or three persons within one person. So what is the difference? We clearly recognize the difference between being and person every day. We recognize what something is, yet we also recognize individuals within a classification. For example, we speak of the “being” of man—human being. A rock has “being”—the being of a rock, as does a cat, a dog, etc. Yet, we also know that there are personal attributes as well. That is, we recognize both “what” and “who” when we talk about a person. The Bible tells us there are three classifications of personal beings—God, man, and angels. What is personality? The ability to have emotion, will, to express oneself. Rocks cannot speak. Cats cannot think of themselves over against others, and, say, work for the common good of “cat kind.” Hence, we are saying that there is one eternal, infinite being of God, shared fully and completely by three persons, Father, Son and Spirit. Onewhat, three who’s. NOTE: We are not saying that the Father is the Son, or the Son the Spirit, or the Spirit the Father. It is very common for people to misunderstand the doctrine as to mean that we are saying Jesus is the Father. The doctrine of the Trinity does not in any way say this! The three Biblical doctrines that flow directly into the river that is the Trinity are as follows: 1) There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable. 2) There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture – the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another – that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons. 3) The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity—that is, the Bible teaches the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit. I understand this completely. So, this is what LDS believes - There is One God in 3 personages - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. There ya go. You have that in common. Here's what you don't have in common - God, man, and angels are the same being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 23 hours ago, estradling75 said: Indeed the only power he has is over himself..Depending/requiring other people to change so we can be happy is a recipe for life long heartache.. And requiring someone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself is hypocrisy Is it really a suggestion that @AbramM convert, out of love??? I doubt anyone would suggest an LDS gal convert to Baptist, if she was in love with one. It's not a matter of requiring someone to change, but of fulfilling the Apostle Paul's admonition that we be equally yoked. If it comes down to his girlfriend being a faithful LDS member and him being a committed Baptist, no one should change. God first. We loved each other, we prayed/hoped for sincere conversion...now let us bless each other and move on. There are no character flaws in that. JohnsonJones and Jane_Doe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 15 hours ago, NightSG said: No more than her unwillingness to change for him. It's a two way street. Kudos on both of them for NOT changing in their love and commitment to GOD, because of their romantic feelings towards each other. They appear to be two strong individuals who will live worthy lives for the LORD. NightSG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said: Is it really a suggestion that @AbramM convert, out of love??? No. I think what is said is that AbramM don't require from the girl what the girl don't require from him. If it is required that a girl be Protestant then this would not be the girl. Okay okay... this is assuming the girl is a faithful LDS and not just socially LDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 hours ago, AbramM said: She is kind of less willing to change than me, because I am willing to go to other churches to see if we like them but she never joins me. She tells me she is willing to change church so she can marry me but her actions don't show me that, so it is a huge mess. It could well be that neither of you realized that there is no Christian church out there that will come close enough to satisfy someone true to LDS beliefs, and no LDS-type church out there that would satisfy the beliefs of a traditional Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted March 25, 2019 Report Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, AbramM said: Either way she wasn't honest with me and I think she knows that. Do you think I believe God is dead? God speaks to me all the time 😀 Baptists do not believe that God speaks the way LDS Christins do. For an LDS Christian, God speaks the EXACT same way He did in ancient times: He doesn't *just* speak to individuals, but He speaks to the world through prophets, revealing and clarifying truth, giving scripture today, etc. For vast majority of Baptists (noting there is a huge variety there) the belief is public revelation is done. God does not use prophets, does not give scripture, does not reveal more, etc. Many are offended by the idea that God would even speak in such a way. Edited March 25, 2019 by Jane_Doe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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