Saying sorry

[Sunday21]

I was part of a decision making body for a student who was charged with assaulting another student. The two students collided in a doorway and assaulted each other. The recommended punishment in these cases is to ban both students from campus which effectively terminates their existence as a student. The student that I was involved with was American. The campus is in Canada.

 I told the student firmly that next time, he must apologize to the person who bumped into him and get away immediately. But there may be no next time...

The student does not have parental funding so just moving to another university is not an option financially. Even if he could afford to move to another university, the other university can pick and choose which credits to accept. Older courses and grades below Bs are often not accepted.

Anyway, apologizing and leaving seems to be expected up here. By me and everyone else.

I get that students fear becoming a target for violence if they give this weak response. Violence is not a big problem here but I could see that the student thought I was crazy. I have a female colleague who went to school in downtown detroit and she told me that her survival as a student depended on looking as though she would give massive retaliation for any slight.

i am wondering about this situation. I can see why the American student thinks that we are nuts. I also think that it is tricky ‘doing the right thing’ in a situation like this. We can’t have fights breaking out on campus. Insurance and lawsuits are just a start on the list of problems.

[Guest Mores]

Questions:

1) Has the decision to expel him been finalized?  If so, then this conversation is pretty much moot.

2) Give the details of the assault.  The punishment should fit the crime.  If it was simply shoving and no lasting damage was done, it may be appropriate to issue a lesser punishment.  But if someone went to the hospital or if severe bruising or bloodshed resulted, then a stronger punishment.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Violence is not a big problem here

I tend to be leary of what Canadians consider Violence.  I mean, this is a country who thinks calling you the wrong pronoun is Violence.  So, what exactly happened?  They accidentally bumped into each other in the hallway and ended up in fisticuffs?

[Sunday21]

Thanks for your responses! @Mores They are making the decision this week. I may not be told the result. I wrote a letter advocating forgiveness as this is the first offence. I suspect that we are worried about being sued if either of the students remain on campus.

Both students hit each other.

@anatess2 Yep. Just as you described. They bumped into each other and ended up hitting each other. 

I hope that both students will get off with a warning but...I suspect that our insurer will have the final word.

😔

Edited June 13, 2019 by Sunday21

[beefche]

I don't understand. They bump into each other and that resulted in a fight? I suppose I'm just weird. This is how it would have gone down for me:

Another person and I run into each other

Me: OH! I'm sorry! Are you ok?

Other Person (OP): Yeah, no harm done. 

I guess it could have happened this way....

Me: OH! I'm sorry! Are you ok?

OP: You stupid @#$@#$@! You need to watch where you are going! You #!@#$!#$%. 

Me: Uh, okayyyy.... walks away....

I couldn't care less if people call me names. I suppose if someone takes a swing, then things would change. But, it typically wouldn't result in violence unless both parties are being stupid. 

[Guest MormonGator]

12 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

. I can see why the American student thinks that we are nuts. 

 I knew someone who used to think Canadians were "gentle, peace loving" people. I said to them, "So, never saw a hockey fight huh?" 

[Sunday21]

45 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

 I knew someone who used to think Canadians were "gentle, peace loving" people. I said to them, "So, never saw a hockey fight huh?" 

Hockey fights! Ahh! Blood on the ice! Horrible! 

[Sunday21]

49 minutes ago, beefche said:

I don't understand. They bump into each other and that resulted in a fight? I suppose I'm just weird. This is how it would have gone down for me:

Another person and I run into each other

Me: OH! I'm sorry! Are you ok?

Other Person (OP): Yeah, no harm done. 

I guess it could have happened this way....

Me: OH! I'm sorry! Are you ok?

OP: You stupid @#$@#$@! You need to watch where you are going! You #!@#$!#$%. 

Me: Uh, okayyyy.... walks away....

I couldn't care less if people call me names. I suppose if someone takes a swing, then things would change. But, it typically wouldn't result in violence unless both parties are being stupid. 

Exactly! Any sane person would make the same choices! Sadly both men thought that the best thing to do was to punch the other.

[Guest MormonGator]

37 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Sadly both men thought that the best thing to do was to punch the other.

How old were they @Sunday21?

[Plein Air]

.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Plein Air

[Sunday21]

12 hours ago, MormonGator said:

How old were they @Sunday21?

Early twenties. I only know one of the parties. He is an American citizen and from his accent was born in Africa but raised for about 5 years in USA. (My first career was speech pathology). I feel for the young man. I can understand that he may think that the typical Canadian, apologize response, may actually be dangerous if done in the US. Here things can be different. I was in the metro in Montreal and asking some scary looking people for directions and they were all delighted to help. Actually, I have been in a similar situation in a very scary part of Detroit and people were divine. 

But yes, if you grew up in Detroit, apologizing might be dangerous. 

[NightSG]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:51 AM, anatess2 said:

I tend to be leary of what Canadians consider Violence.  I mean, this is a country who thinks calling you the wrong pronoun is Violence.

"Excuse me sir."

 

[Sunday21]

@Plein Air Thank you for your post. We have no video. I only have the story as told by my student. My student tells me that both parties collided and both threw punches. As my student admits joint fault, my suspicion is that my student threw the first punch...but I think:

1) that my student responded automatically. This factor is still not good from the viewpoint of predicting future behaviour. The insurance company may insist on banning him from campus for the reason that he is a ticking time bomb.

2) my student MAY have learned his lesson? He clearly thought that I was nuts when I was advocating the apologies option. 

[Sunday21]

4 minutes ago, NightSG said:

"Excuse me sir."

 

LOL! This looks just like me! The hair! I have to print this off!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, Sunday21 said:

 

2) my student MAY have learned his lesson? He clearly thought that I was nuts when I was advocating the apologies option. 

I think the apologies option is completely reasonable. The fact that after all that has happened, he still thinks that option is crazy says to me that he has not learned and would resort to violence again if he were put in the same situation again.

[Sunday21]

2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I think the apologies option is completely reasonable. The fact that after all that has happened, he still thinks that option is crazy says to me that he has not learned and would resort to violence again if he were put in the same situation again.

I fear that you may be right. I have the uncomfortable feeling that this guy may indeed be a ticking time bomb. 

[Guest Mores]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

LOL! This looks just like me! The hair! I have to print this off!

We have a new name for you.  Terminator 21.  The new Sarah Connor!!!

BTW, do you normally wear skirts that short?  Tch tch tch!