"Hidden things" that we know.

[mordorbund]

Inspired by the discussion in this thread I got to thinking about the common practice of tracing LDS doctrine back to the Bible to show it was a restored teaching or practice, as well as looking for hints of latter-day teachings and practice in the Book of Mormon.

And I got to thinking about these revelations:

Quote

Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things-- ... hidden things which no man knew,

Quote

God shall give unto you knowledge ... that has not been revealed since the world was until now; Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fulness of their glory; ... According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof

Quote

And verily I say unto you, let this house be built unto my name, that I may reveal mine ordinances therein unto my people; For I deign to reveal unto my church things which have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world, things that pertain to the dispensation of the fulness of times.

 

These verses state that some of the revelations we have received in modern times (and will yet receive) have never before been revealed.

What do you think some of these new revelations are?

[Traveler]

This thread reminds me of a meeting once with the management team of a high scale production facility.  In the installation of a automated system we hit a major set back that delayed the project.  The reason for the setback was a unforseen problem from the power grid supplying electrical power to the facility.  The problem is typical in that peak tolerances are often lost in expected average and mean demand.  In short, what was expected in the requirements was not supplied.  And so I called the problem unexpected.  Because a lot of money was at stake I was asked how many more unexpected problems would there be that would delay the project.  Realizing how ridiculous the question was; I quickly responded - 17 and each one will cause a minimum of week delay.  Some people do not respond well to sarcasm.

The problem is that we do not know what we do not know.  In science we have learned that 95% of what goes on in our universe - we cannot properly explain.  So we speculate and give Dark Matter and Dark Energy legs - not knowing what either could possibly be or the extent of what is actually going on.  Another example is the discovery of UFO's from Supermassive Black Holes.  UFO stands for Ultra-Fast Outflows.  Here is a link for those interested https://www.livescience.com/black-hole-ufos-shape-galaxies.html   For those that may not realize this discovery is reshaping our understanding of physical laws that govern the universe - we are not as smart as we think we are.

I believe that science and religion are tightly coupled and that new understanding in one requires new understandings in the other.  In short - scientific discoveries promote changes in religious thinking and that new revelations in religion promote changes in scientific thinking.  Thus - with the "restoration" come many new and exciting discoveries and revelations.   I would also say that I am of the mind that the restoration began even before Joseph Smith - both in religion and science and I believe history clearly indicates this.  However, with the advent of Joseph Smith a threshold of discovery and revelation was crossed an obvious threshold that has caused such new "knowledge" to accelerate.

Generally speaking - I do not think that "religion" has kept up.  That is to say that it is my opinion that most in religion are more concerned with "traditions" than they are about learning from new revelations. 

But there is another problem. I believe with the increase in knowledge in both science and religion - that there is also an increase in pseudo science and pseudo religion.  I define pseudo science and pseudo religion to be the facts and truths we think we learn in order to hold on to our favorite beliefs in science and religion.  Some examples are young earth religionists that criticize evolution to keep certain religious beliefs and those in the scientific community that are sure that evolution disproves intelligent creative forces behind evolution.

 

The Traveler

Edited August 22, 2019 by Traveler

[Traveler]

Having thought of this more - I wonder if there may be an ordinance (or two) added to our temple covenants and worship.

 

The Traveler

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, Traveler said:

Having thought of this more - I wonder if there may be an ordinance (or two) added to our temple covenants and worship.

 

The Traveler

That 3rd scripture ties the revelation of things "hid from before the foundation of the world" to Nauvoo temple ordinances. I suppose it could be argued that elements of those ordinances are new, or that the ordinance itself prepares (teaches?) the initiate to receive the hidden knowledge.

[Traveler]

2 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

That 3rd scripture ties the revelation of things "hid from before the foundation of the world" to Nauvoo temple ordinances. I suppose it could be argued that elements of those ordinances are new, or that the ordinance itself prepares (teaches?) the initiate to receive the hidden knowledge.

Here is a thought given as a question - Is resurrection a Priesthood ordinance?

 

The Traveler

[mordorbund]

On 8/22/2019 at 11:04 AM, mordorbund said:

These verses state that some of the revelations we have received in modern times (and will yet receive) have never before been revealed.

What do you think some of these new revelations are?

I tend to think that the details of missionary work in the spirit world may not have been known. At the very least, Peter seems to think that Jesus Himself taught those who rejected Noah while Joseph F. Smith reveals that it was an organized ministry, not a direct one.

Paul recognizes gradations of resurrected beings, but I don't necessarily think he had the Celestial/Terrestrial/Telestial model that we're so familiar with.

And then there's D&C 19's teaching on "endless torment".

[mordorbund]

1 minute ago, Traveler said:

Here is a thought given as a question - Is resurrection a Priesthood ordinance?

 

The Traveler

Yes, the keys of which are not on the earth today. Do you think that those keys will be handed out before/when Jesus comes again or do you think that's something reserved for those already resurrected?

[Traveler]

1 minute ago, mordorbund said:

Yes, the keys of which are not on the earth today. Do you think that those keys will be handed out before/when Jesus comes again or do you think that's something reserved for those already resurrected?

Good question - So I wonder if the dispensation of fullness of time includes the restoration of "all things".  Perhaps it is possible that keys be restored before the ordinances - which seems logical.

But there are other ordinances (I know of two) that have been performed at some time in limited or unique circumstance that perhaps could become more general (such as the washing of feet at the last supper).

 

The traveler

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

Yes, the keys of which are not on the earth today. Do you think that those keys will be handed out before/when Jesus comes again or do you think that's something reserved for those already resurrected?

Personal take...

They are reserved for those already resurrected typically, though the Lord has them and had them for his own resurrection (In my take on it).  IF we follow traditional Mormon theology and doctrine (as opposed to what apparently is coming out now days...that COULD be in direct opposition to everything ever said on it...but it may not be, confusing times we live in)...the Husband after resurrection would be given the opportunity to also resurrect their wives.  This would be a specific purpose for the keys given to them for that specific purpose, in which they would call their wife by name and call them forth from the grave.  This, of course is reliant on the husband knowing their wife's name (hopefully he would) and having the wife also covenanted to follow her husband's priesthood calling and the responsibilities given to him by the Lord (in this instance, they keys of resurrection).

This is not something I've heard in the church talked about in some time, maybe decades, and some current changes seem to indicate people, even those in authority, have discarded this or do not know about this teaching?

[Vort]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

On 8/22/2019 at 8:04 AM, mordorbund said:

These verses state that some of the revelations we have received in modern times (and will yet receive) have never before been revealed.

What do you think some of these new revelations are?

I tend to think that the details of missionary work in the spirit world may not have been known. At the very least, Peter seems to think that Jesus Himself taught those who rejected Noah while Joseph F. Smith reveals that it was an organized ministry, not a direct one.

Paul recognizes gradations of resurrected beings, but I don't necessarily think he had the Celestial/Terrestrial/Telestial model that we're so familiar with.

And then there's D&C 19's teaching on "endless torment".

I appreciate this back-and-forth.