Engine of Violence

[Traveler]

We are currently facing a lot of violence in our country.  I am of the mind that if we were able to remove the recreational use of drugs from our streets that the quantity and quality of violence would be greatly diminished and this includes alcoholic intoxication.   It is my personal opinion as long as such things are considered a personal right or choice - we will fill our streets with violence.  We may say we are against violence but we are just kidding ourselves if we allow intoxication.  And yet we live in a society where intoxication is considered normal social behavior - and in many places - a right!

Let us quit arguing over symptoms of violence and deal with the cause - substance intoxication.  Which BTW is considered a non violent crime.  What we should learn is that separating an individual from from the use of intoxicating substances has a more lasting effect than placing them in prison - or any other form of punishment.

As per George Floyd?  It was not a police problem - there would not have been a problem had George not been intoxicated.  It is also interesting to me that drugs play a role in a great many of the mass shootings.   I do not believe any problem can get solved or made better until the root cause is addressed.

 

The Traveler

Edited September 8, 2020 by Traveler

[Guest Scott]

Although I agree with you in that intoxication causes a lot of problems, including violence, I'm not sure what your proposal is.  Harsher penatlies?  More treatment centers?  Prohibition of alcohol didn't go so well.

I'm not sure that the war on drugs has been that sucessful.  As far as penaties go, something like 1/3 of all prisoners are in for drug charges. More arrest means a lot more prisons needed.  

As far as current drug users go, the only thing I know of that has been partially successful are drug treatment centers.   They are also incredibly expensive and usually most of the cost aren't covered by insurance.  Also the sucess rate is still under 50%.

The only thing that would be really successful is to convert everyone into our church. ;

Edited September 9, 2020 by Scott

[Traveler]

53 minutes ago, Scott said:

Although I agree with you in that intoxication causes a lot of problems, including violence, I'm not sure what your proposal is.  Harsher penatlies?  More treatment centers?  Prohibition of alcohol didn't go so well.

I'm not sure that the war on drugs has been that sucessful.  As far as penaties go, something like 1/3 of all prisoners are in for drug charges. More arrest means a lot more prisons needed.  

As far as current drug users go, the only thing I know of that has been partially successful are drug treatment centers.   They are also incredibly expensive and usually most of the cost aren't covered by insurance.  Also the sucess rate is still under 50%.

The only thing that would be really successful is to convert everyone into our church. ;

We have a interesting historical example - the opium wars in China - also know in China as the 100 years of shame.  At the time that opium was introduced to China it was a economic, military and trading super power.  China was not able to deal with the problem (many reasons but mainly because there was an international conspiracy - drug cartel).   This lead to the fall of the Quin dynasty and and traditional dynastic rule of China dating back several thousand years.  This lead to the rise of Communism and totalitarian rule.

During the 100 years of shame; the only success was in stopping the flow of drugs into China and forcing addicts into rehab to break addictions (usually through incarceration) and by forced starvation of states within China that could not be controlled.   But the drug cartel was able to convince European nations and the USA to declare war on China.  This war was depicted in a movie titled "55 Days in Peking" staring Charleston Heston.   It was the result of this war that took Hong Kong and Taiwan from China for 100 years.  It is also interesting that the movie depicted those western countries as the good guys the China as corrupt and that the international drug cartel has never been dealt with or recorded anywhere in history that it no longer exists.

I have suggested in other posts that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was connected to the drug cartel and that politicians favoring open borders, the abolishment of ICE, defunding the police and the repeal of the 2nd Amendment ( right to bear arms) are all - either directly or indirectly controlled by current drug cartels.  

I have also suggested that if the USA is unwilling to recognize  a covenant with G-d for our freedoms and liberties - we will, as a nation, be brought into bondage - in my opinion - in the same as was China with Communism.  So in essence you are correct - the only thing that would be successful is to convert everyone - if not to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - at least to enough of a religious devotion to G-d as to be wiling to serve Him and look to him to preserve the liberty of what remains of this nation - "Under G-d".  I believe this is one of the central points made in the Book of Mormon for our day.

 

The Traveler

[JohnsonJones]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

We have a interesting historical example - the opium wars in China - also know in China as the 100 years of shame.  At the time that opium was introduced to China it was a economic, military and trading super power.  China was not able to deal with the problem (many reasons but mainly because there was an international conspiracy - drug cartel).   This lead to the fall of the Quin dynasty and and traditional dynastic rule of China dating back several thousand years.  This lead to the rise of Communism and totalitarian rule.

During the 100 years of shame; the only success was in stopping the flow of drugs into China and forcing addicts into rehab to break addictions (usually through incarceration) and by forced starvation of states within China that could not be controlled.   But the drug cartel was able to convince European nations and the USA to declare war on China.  This war was depicted in a movie titled "55 Days in Peking" staring Charleston Heston.   It was the result of this war that took Hong Kong and Taiwan from China for 100 years.  It is also interesting that the movie depicted those western countries as the good guys the China as corrupt and that the international drug cartel has never been dealt with or recorded anywhere in history that it no longer exists.

I have suggested in other posts that Franklin Delano Roosevelt was connected to the drug cartel and that politicians favoring open borders, the abolishment of ICE, defunding the police and the repeal of the 2nd Amendment ( right to bear arms) are all - either directly or indirectly controlled by current drug cartels.  

I have also suggested that if the USA is unwilling to recognize  a covenant with G-d for our freedoms and liberties - we will, as a nation, be brought into bondage - in my opinion - in the same as was China with Communism.  So in essence you are correct - the only thing that would be successful is to convert everyone - if not to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - at least to enough of a religious devotion to G-d as to be wiling to serve Him and look to him to preserve the liberty of what remains of this nation - "Under G-d".  I believe this is one of the central points made in the Book of Mormon for our day.

 

The Traveler

That's an interesting take.

If I understand you right then, it would indicate from your ideas that the drug cartels are connected to most underground crime and are the true Gadiantons of our day?

[Traveler]

6 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

That's an interesting take.

If I understand you right then, it would indicate from your ideas that the drug cartels are connected to most underground crime and are the true Gadiantons of our day?

It is very difficult for me to imagine that the Gadiantons of our day would leave such a lucrative business on the table - and that judges and politicians would be their primary targets of influence.  I see no other logic that can explain why an elected official would want open borders, abolish ICE, defund the police and deprive law abiding citizens of their 2nd amendment rights.   These are all threats to the distribution of illegal drugs and their use.  I have put this out on the forum to see if anyone has another possible explanation.  Dare I add opposition to the divine concept of the nuclear family as the basis of community and country.  Dr Peter Duesberg exposed that the LGBTQ community is heavy into the use of drugs and was targeted because of it.

It is also my belief that the Gadiantons of our day are deeply involved in each or our primary political parties - but it does also seem that one of our political parties has fallen under the complete control - so much that any opposition is not allowed and is a target that must be silenced by whatever means necessary but currently - mostly through fear and intimidation.  But I also think @Scott is spot on in understanding that this element destroying our liberties cannot be addressed without divine assistance.

 

The Traveler

Edited September 9, 2020 by Traveler

[mirkwood]

The removal of substance abuse will not remove all violence.  It would curtail a good chunk, but it will not solve all of it.

[Guest Scott]

21 hours ago, Traveler said:

We have a interesting historical example - the opium wars in China - also know in China as the 100 years of shame.  At the time that opium was introduced to China it was a economic, military and trading super power.  China was not able to deal with the problem (many reasons but mainly because there was an international conspiracy - drug cartel).   This lead to the fall of the Quin dynasty and and traditional dynastic rule of China dating back several thousand years.  This lead to the rise of Communism and totalitarian rule.

Now days when you fly to China there's a big banner on the wall when you get off the airplane that says Drug Trafficking is Punishable by Death in the ROC (Republic of China).

I believe the signs are at all of the international airports in China.   I assume it does deter a lot of people.  

Drug trafficking is technically punishable by death in the United States as well, but no one (yet at least) has been sentenced to death for it. 

[NeuroTypical]

China's history of backing up that claim, probably helps a lot too.   If I didn't believe human life had inherent value, I'd be quite impressed by how they stopped their opium epidemic by giving everyone some time to get themselves off of it, and then killing every opium addict they could find.