Liberal success?

[Traveler]

I almost got caught up in the debate of what is going on.   I want to thank @Godlessfor their contribution.  

I would that everyone notice what it is that I think I see because I think that politics of whatever stripe employs the same definition of success in their agenda.   I began this thread highlighting what I believed to be failures in the liberal agenda from my conservative point of view.  The response of the only liberal posting here (that I see posting) is that all things listed are in essence and in reality, failures of the conservative agenda – even though what is happening is happening under the watch implementations of the liberals. 

There is an old saying that a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.  Is it therefore futile to debate an issue of politics with a demographic that refuses to take responsibility for what they are controlling.  It is my opinion that if we do not demand our own political alignments to be responsible, we will never convince the opposition of their responsibility.

 

The Traveler     

Edited February 21, 2023 by Traveler

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Is it therefore futile to debate an issue of politics with a demographic that refuses

Isn’t that a cop out people use when they can’t handle hearing someone with a different opinion? 
 

Most people don’t want to hear anything they disagree with, much less something that challenges them to rethink the issues. This goes for all of us. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by LDSGator

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Isn’t that a cop out people use when they can’t handle hearing someone with a different opinion? 
 

Most people don’t want to hear anything they disagree with, much less something that challenges them to rethink the issues. This goes for all of us. 

Some people start salivating at hearing things they disagree with.

[JohnsonJones]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:30 AM, Traveler said:

Perhaps my political views are highly biased.  Though I consider myself a conservative – I am not a Republican (enough said).  My question is there anything that anyone believes the current Democratic (liberal – progressive) administration has handled well – that deserves accolades.

Economy – We were told that the inflation was “transitory”.  That turned out to be wrong – there has been not recovery from inflation.  Though it has tapered off, the economy is more tenuous and the same prognosticators that claimed inflation was transitory and not important – are still in control of economic policy – there is no consideration for other opinions.  I give the liberals an F in economics.

Well, the current situation could be seen as caused by the inflationary measures put in during the Trump term.  In that light, seeing we are in what some would call a soft recession, they've done remarkably well THUS FAR (meaning, it could come crashing down at anytime) of preventing a true recession.  They've (THUS FAR) managed to navigate the narrow gap between driving the economy to a full on recession while still trying to curb inflation.  I don't know whether they will succeed or not. 

I know that despite the gas companies best efforts to boost gas prices in favor of the Republicans, and other manipulations, I paid only 2.67/gal at the pump this past week to fill up.  Seeing how bad it could be, that's not terrible (once again...THUS FAR). 

On 2/18/2023 at 10:30 AM, Traveler said:

Military – We were told by the top liberal military minds that Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan were not organized nor competent – that when the US withdrew from Afghanistan that it would take months or years for the Islamic extremists to over through the US installed and trained government and military.  It was the same liberal military minds that predicted that if Russia invaded Ukraine that Ukraine would fall within 72 hours.  Obviously, even though the liberal military minds had access to the most accurate intelligence – they are incapable of interpreting anything to any degree of accuracy --- I give the liberal military minds F-.

Trump organized the deal to pull out of  Afghanistan.  Not sure why this is placed on Biden.  That's Trumps deal.  He was going to pull them out faster and sooner if he could have as well. 

Trump also was trying to pull the US out of NATO.  It has also been felt that if he had been President, very little aid would have been given to the Ukraine and more favor towards Russia.  Europe MIGHT be embroiled in a War with the Russians right now if he had been in charge, though without any help from the US.

I actually think the US is in a really good position right now.  It is not often that one of our major threats to our society will be wasting it's resources on another nations.  We can spend money and equipment (but not even our top equipment) without losing American lives, while costing a major enemy of the United States to waste their resources on a War against someone else.  That's always a win.  Instead of another Vietnam we get a UK in 1940 (though, hopefully it doesn't turn out like that war because eventually we got drawn into it).  

On 2/18/2023 at 10:30 AM, Traveler said:

Health care – The liberal health care minds promised that they would handle the COVID pandemic much better than conservative minds.  Though conservative minds produced a vaccine – the liberal health minds – produced nothing.  There were more COVID death under liberal mandates and there was zero progress in producing any possible COVID cure with full FDA approval.   I give the liberal health care minds an F-.

Transportation – disaster mitigations – I give another F.

Transportation is an interesting situation.  I think the news focused a LOT on those spy balloons to take attention away from the fact of what was happening in Ohio at that very same time.  The Balloons were alarming, but what has happened in Ohio seems extremely terrible.  I think the Biden administration was trying to avoid a black eye on that front. 

Many will point out that it was the Trump deregulation that led to this accident most likely (and I agree) but Trump has NOT BEEN president for 2 years at this point.  It also seems that when Biden offered assistance, the Governor of Ohio turned him down (so, it appears Biden TRIED to help, but was rejected). 

What IS true is that when Rail workers were wanting to strike, the Biden administration put an end to that with some very strong threats.  Some of those things the workers were wanting to strike over may have helped avoid the Rail tragedy that recently happened.  In that light, this is DIRECTLY on the Biden administration, whether they want to admit it or not. 

Add on top of that the Christmas fiasco with Southwest, I'd agree, Transportation is having a rough time right now.  I'd say that is definitely a black eye for the Biden administration currently...whether they want to admit it or not.  

On 2/18/2023 at 10:30 AM, Traveler said:

Education and technology – I give F and D.  It seems that innovation is happening less in the US and more abroad.

Civil unity – I give an F.  There is no reaching across the aisle to consider ideas to bring unity.  Liberal minds do no better or worse than conservative minds.

I'd say there is  MORE Civility and unity than there was under Trump.  Now, the rifts in the Republican party (how many times did they take up that Speaker of the House vote because they couldn't agree) are probably a bigger concern right now, or so I would think. 

On 2/18/2023 at 10:30 AM, Traveler said:

Border and illegal immigration – There is no place in the USA, even considering the most liberally controlled sanctuary states or cities that proclaims that the border policies are beneficial to anybody and that they will gladly accept whatever illegal immigration is allowed to their states and cities and wish for more.  I give the liberals a definite F-.

I realize that I have a political bias – but I wonder if anyone that considers themselves a liberal is happy and proud and wants to proclaim to the world anything wonderful the liberals have accomplished (by themselves with their political clout) during the last two years in the USA that they believe should be and example to the world of how a society ought to be run and differing ideas and agendas addressed????

I apologize to the forum mediators in advance for any discomfort this thread may bring.  I do wonder what it is that I am not seeing or realizing?

 

The Traveler

 

One of the things I enjoy right now is that we don't have an prolific and blatant  (and unsorrowful of it) adulterer in the White House.  I didn't appreciate Clinton being of a low moral fiber.  Having someone of even lower moral fiber didn't really sit well with me.  (Obama also was rumored to be of low moral character prior to his marriage as well...I would really appreciate having Presidents who respected morality and things of that nature). 

I don't have a problem with Biden (you can even point to me and say he is my president...yes, I voted for him.  If the Republicans had a better candidate such as Marco Rubio or someone more in line with a traditional Republican ideal, I might have leaned more that way, but in comparison between Biden and Trump...I'd probably choose Biden any day of the week).  I think he's doing a fine job as a middle of the road President.  He hasn't done anything I see as really far left or right.  I DO wish he'd change the taxes back to actually taxing the rich again, and perhaps take a look at taxes (they should have done it when they controlled the House and Senate.  They didn't which goes to show they aren't that much better than the Republicans in that regards either) and how they were designed to have the tax breaks expire on the lower tax brackets (as designed so if Trump lost they would not be renewed) while keeping the Tax breaks on the higher tax brackets.  Seeing how the divisions between wealth are only being exacerbated with very little gain on the lower end of the tax brackets (which is why inflation is hitting many so hard, while those on the higher end really aren't feeling it's effects as much), the Democrats SHOULD have prioritized revising the tax code when they got into office.

I think we have a good balance right now between a Conservative Supreme Court, a divided Congress, and a moderate Democrat as the President. 

It could be SOOO much worse.  (for example, imagine someone on the FAR left as the President right now, or an Ultra Liberal Supreme Court). 

If anything I think I am more bitter against the Republicans for saying they stand for morality, but then doing nothing regarding some of the more drastic immorality issues in our society today.  They COULD  have taken action on but have not.  With the court as it is, there's never been a better time for it, but I feel they are just going to fritter it away, or are actually complicit in the same immorality despite having many say they stand for moral fiber. 

PS:  The only one I'm seeing in the News making an OPEN stand right now is DeSantis.  I may not agree with what he is doing in many fronts, but he IS the ONLY one I see actually talking about some of these things and making an open stand in regards to it. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by JohnsonJones

[JohnsonJones]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:07 PM, Vort said:

Why? Raising the minimum wage is, at best, a very temporary measure to ease problems, and causes many more problems downstream. Why doesn't the government simply print up one million dollars per person and then distribute the cash? We'd all be rich! Um, well, no, of course we wouldn't. That's not how money works. But the Left certainly seems to think that's how money works.

 

I have a different idea that I would like instituted (But has NO support from either party).

If a business pays somebody so low that the employee has to get welfare or social subsidies to survive...THAT COMPANY PAYS BACK DOUBLE OR TRIPLE of whatever the government gives to that person.

I imagine if a company finds out that they could actually pay someone fairly for a cheaper amount than what they would under a government program that did this, they would start paying higher wages by default.

Right now, we ARE paying welfare FOR walmart and other companies.  I say, instead of supporting those companies off of OUR government money, make THEM pay.  Either they change course, or we actually MAKE MONEY off social subsidies.

The other factor of course, is the larger number of people who are old and on Medicare these days.  I actually qualify for it and CAN use it (most seniors do).  I try not to (I have insurance through the university), but have had to resort to using it once or twice (to help cover the entire cost of a hospital visit, insurance only covers around 80% these days...thanks ACA...used to be 100% prior to those changes). 

[JohnsonJones]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:14 PM, scottyg said:

Since when is an optional loan of 5% predatory? I'm an RN with a masters degree. I also graduated with zero student debt as I cash flowed my entire education. I didn't sign up for school unless I could pay for it myself upfront. It can be done as long as kids pay attention, make smart financial decisions, and don't live off of their loans. College for most is just a big party, and then they graduate with a worthless degree in communications or liberal arts that doesn't translate to real world employment. You want to look at predatory interest rates then take a gander at most credit cards with 19-25% interest...I don't see our politicians saying anything about that.

Out of State tuition in some places runs close to 50K a year.  (so, around 47K where I'm at).  In state is around 27K).

That will be around 200K for 4 years. 

Math is not my forte (not a Math teacher, and definitely not a Math professor).  I think that runs around 251K at 5% in 5 years.  That would be around 10K a year in interest. 

These are newly graduated college students, not someone already situation in a career. 

Average starting salary is $55,260 a year for students getting out of college. 

Average Rent (in a local area) is around $2000/month so around 24K a year.

Average home price is around 450K. 

The area I'm looking at is cheaper than some locations.

For example, in Los Angeles the average rent is 2,786/month.  That is around 33K a year. 

This does not take into other expenses such as Car Payments, insurance, health insurance, food, utility bills and other items. 

I can imagine those who make below the average could be having a hard time making payments above paying the interest.  On the otherhand, those making above the average should be able to budget and pay off those loans when looking at the above figures if they do not have a family they have to consider. 

[Traveler]

.....

 

On 2/24/2023 at 6:06 AM, JohnsonJones said:

Well, the current situation could be seen as caused by the inflationary measures put in during the Trump term.  In that light, seeing we are in what some would call a soft recession, they've done remarkably well THUS FAR (meaning, it could come crashing down at anytime) of preventing a true recession.  They've (THUS FAR) managed to navigate the narrow gap between driving the economy to a full on recession while still trying to curb inflation.  I don't know whether they will succeed or not. 

I know that despite the gas companies best efforts to boost gas prices in favor of the Republicans, and other manipulations, I paid only 2.67/gal at the pump this past week to fill up.  Seeing how bad it could be, that's not terrible (once again...THUS FAR). 

Thank you for your response.  I have considered your response and would add a couple of things:

Though the current inflationary measures were the result of economics measures under Trump – they really were not his concepts.  It was more because of COVID and economic measures installed to combat a pandemic.  The liberals has as much to do with the economic measures (spending) as did the conservatives.   There were two specific changes brought about by Biden (that he campaigned on) that made inflation worse.  These two things were (first) changes to the petroleum industry that were deliberate to bring about higher prices to encourage and create a “green” economy.  He campaigned and said he would destroy the petroleum industry which would bring about higher petroleum prices – then as soon as the prices happened, he blamed the petroleum industry.

The second change concerned vaccine mandates of accentual workers which had the effect of slowing down trucking and dock workers – that resulted in shortages and economic price increases.

Normally there is a two year lag in the economy from political changes but we also must realize that draconian economic changes (such as listed above) can have much quicker affect.  But this is not what concerns me most – What I was concerned about is that Biden and his administration said that inflation was not real but an over reaction of conservatives.   The truth is that Biden lied to the citizens about the reality of inflation saying it was transitory.   That is what concerns me – not so much who is to blame as much as the understanding of economics.   Obviously, Biden and his economic advisers do not understand basic economics.  If they did, they would not have spent our national debt beyond our GNP as a measure to fight inflation.  There is not a single time in history this has not led to a complete economic collapse.

As for the petroleum industry – under current government regulation instituted by Biden – it is impossible for the petroleum industry to meat our current energy needs.   Under Trump, not only was the petroleum industry capable of meeting our nation’s energy needs but was capable of meeting increases in needs as projected for the next 100 years.

Quote

Trump organized the deal to pull out of  Afghanistan.  Not sure why this is placed on Biden.  That's Trumps deal.  He was going to pull them out faster and sooner if he could have as well. 

.......

The Afghanistan withdrawal was put into place by Trump – but it was Biden and his administration that instituted the withdrawal as a failure both logistically and as a public relation.  It was Biden’s administration that ignored military intelligence and proclaimed that it would take the Taliban and Al-Qaeda (that could not coordinate with each other and would take months at least a year or likely never) to take over Afghanistan.  It were these same military experts that (based on our best intelligence?) said that Ukraine would fall to the Russian military within 72 hours and that military aid was not necessary or needed.  They claimed that sanctions were sufficient to prevent the invasion – and if Russia dared to cross the Ukraine border that the USA would respond with blowing up the Nord Stream gas pipeline.  Was Biden lying? 

 

I am very concerned and continue to explain but it is not blame that concerns me – I do not hear our current administration saying anything that convinces me that they will take responsibility and fix anything – rather I see their solution to blame what happens on their watch and continue with their blinders on  agenda

 

The Traveler

Edited February 25, 2023 by Traveler