Traveler Posted November 16, 2023 Report Share Posted November 16, 2023 While serving a mission it was my intent to work with bishops and stake presidents in my area. I learned a great deal from them. On one occasion I was talking with a stake president about miracles and how great miracles are linked to the priesthood. The spirit was strong, and the stake president decided to share with me an experience he had when he was somewhat inactive (an experience he had only shared once before). He was in the company of an average person that was not known for great spiritual things. In a moment lives were placed in great danger – the person he was with was the only priesthood holder there. This person rose to his feet and by the power of the priesthood commanded a mountain to move. In an instant and without a sound the mountain moved, and several lives were saved – including that of the stake president speaking to me. I have left out much of what was told me because of the sacredness of it. Because of the miracle this stake president repented and became active – not wavering since. He told me that the fellow in his company was as astonished as was he and likewise repented and became more stalwart. That his actions in the moment were not his own. The spirit bore witness to me that indeed a mountain was moved – that some that witnessed the event had no idea what happened. We do live in a time of miracles – and perhaps one reason that we do not hear more is because, as Isaiah said to King Ahaz, (in essence) “You do not see and cannot believe because you are not loyal to your covenants with G-d). Perhaps more now than in the days of Isaiah are our covenants more challenged. The Traveler zil2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted November 17, 2023 Report Share Posted November 17, 2023 (edited) On 11/13/2023 at 6:55 PM, CommanderSouth said: And if I don't have free will, I can't do anything about it You have total free will. God cannot see the future, but we are told that He has all things before Him. He sees us in His real time, That's not the same as determining our path. Edited November 17, 2023 by mrmarklin CommanderSouth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderSouth Posted November 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 2:30 PM, mrmarklin said: You have total free will. God cannot see the future, but we are told that He has all things before Him. He sees us in His real time, That's not the same as determining our path. Ah, the beauty of CS Lewis Though I don't know if that's where it came from originally, Mere Christianity is where I first heard it. And it's still glorious to hear now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderSouth Posted November 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 I want to close this out, I've reached a conclusion (thank God). We don't HAVE free will. We ARE free will. At the core of all existence, wills do what wills want. I might have rendered this plainer, but this is sufficiently plain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 On 11/14/2023 at 7:51 AM, CommanderSouth said: Well, I think Card annunciated my feelings about Intelligences, Creation, and Embodiment better than anyone. I am also chewing on the thought that, I truly "want" free will, I "want" to exist. If I have the illusion of free will, isn't that actually better that physically having it? Because, while I can be worried about the illusion, I don't know if it's possible (nor do I wish to try) to break it. So if I have free will from some endowment, I have it. If I don't but think I do, I still "effectively" have it, and am deluded in such a way that I can't lose it. It's like internal vs external motivation. Better to be internally motivated, so why not better to be internally "free willed". It would be like desiring to be cold. If I was physically in the cold, I'm cold. If my mind sends the sensations to receptors without the stimuli, I'm still cold, so I'm still happy! (Barring other things like being somewhere dangerous and normal stimuli being blocked, but that isn't important) Why should "free will" mean "unpredictable"? This is not obvious to me. mrmarklin and zil2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carborendum Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 Once all is said and done, I believe it will be brought to our full understanding just how much our free will was what got us to our final destination. We can moan all we want about our circumstances and all. And we can even point to things about our bodies, brains, etc. And they all certainly had an impact. But at the end of the day, I think we'll find it difficult for us to deny in the face of the Lord's perfect understanding that we were the ones who chose our path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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