Light

[laronius]

D&C 88:6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; 7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made. 8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; 9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; 10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. 11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I have generally read these verses as a metaphor, the light of the gospel/Christ/truth that comes from God being likened unto the physical light that allows us to see with our eyes. But verse 11 seems to be more literal, making them one in the same. Is that how everyone else reads it?

Edited February 8 by laronius

[zil2]

I believe there is a literal interpretation to the above.  I suspect the "light" being described is not (only) the light our mortal eyes see.  My imagination comes up with all of us connected by a network of light - like a (literally) glorified fiber optic network without need for the cables.  (My imagination likes to visualize things - and make things up out of whole cloth.)

Everywhere you see "truth", you could replace it with "knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" and see if that sheds any (ahem) light for you.   D&C 88 and 93 have a lot of stuff that instinctively make sense, but which I have a hard time deciphering...  Go figure.

[rcthompson88]

As the Creator, all light does come from that creation.

3rd Nephi 18: 24
24 Therefore, hold up your light that it may shine unto the world. Behold I am the light which ye shall hold up—that which ye have seen me do. Behold ye see that I have prayed unto the Father, and ye all have witnessed.

This points to the Light we shine to others as being Christ as well.

At the Youth Theme Discussion Broadcast that took place a few weeks ago there was a cool segment about stained glass windows, and one of the YM made the observation that we are like stained glass windows, we have our own beauty, but when light shines through, which is Christ, we are able to reach our full potential of beauty.

 

[askandanswer]

I've always been inclined to take a literal interpretation to these verses but I just haven't figured out how.

[laronius]

12 hours ago, zil2 said:

I believe there is a literal interpretation to the above.  I suspect the "light" being described is not (only) the light our mortal eyes see.  My imagination comes up with all of us connected by a network of light - like a (literally) glorified fiber optic network without need for the cables.  (My imagination likes to visualize things - and make things up out of whole cloth.)

Everywhere you see "truth", you could replace it with "knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" and see if that sheds any (ahem) light for you.   D&C 88 and 93 have a lot of stuff that instinctively make sense, but which I have a hard time deciphering...  Go figure.

My guess is our fallen mortal bodies make poor discerners of what me might call non-physical light (though we may come to learn there really is no such distinction). Hence the great need of the Holy Ghost in helping us receive the light we need. In the resurrection we will receive immortal bodies commensurate with our willingness to accept light and will inherit kingdoms of glory/light in proportion to what our bodies can receive. 

[CV75]

22 hours ago, laronius said:

D&C 88:6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; 7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made. 8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; 9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; 10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. 11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

I have generally read these verses as a metaphor, the light of the gospel/Christ/truth that comes from God being likened unto the physical light that allows us to see with our eyes. But verse 11 seems to be more literal, making them one in the same. Is that how everyone else reads it?

I think it is used both ways simultaneously. "Metaphorically" because I do not understand the physical properties of this light, and "physically" because fundamentally everything is some kind of material (the immaterial does not exist).

[askandanswer]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:23 AM, laronius said:

D&C 88:6 He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; 7 Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made. 8 As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; 9 As also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; 10 And the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand. 11 And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings; 12 Which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space— 13 The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things.

Some semi-formed, highly speculative ponderings about light:

Given their source, we can accept these verses as truth. If we could work out how they are true, I think it would revolutionise our understanding of astronomy, electo-magnetic energy, truth, information, and how it is conveyed. It might also improve our understanding of how the Spirit communicates with us. In these verses, God has given us the answers. We just need to work out the how. If I was a physicist studying the properties of light, Doctrine and Covenants 88 is where I would begin. When God has given us direct teachings and truth on a topic that we want to know about, I can see some disadvantages arising from not accepting and following those teachings. 

I suspect that one approach to studying the question of how physical light is/might be truth would be in looking more closely at the dual nature of light as both a particle and as energy. Light joins together in one thing the properties of a particle and the properties of energy. I think that the joining of two things into one -  intelligence to spirit to create a soul, then soul to physical body, then two bodies merged into one through temple marriage to create a family, then sperm and egg combining to create a body - is main method God uses for bringing seperate things into a higher order of being.  

When I think of these verses I almost always immediately think also of the idea that God dwells in the midst of everlasting burning which sounds to me like a sun. A sun produces and emits more light than anything else - as does God. The other side of that thought is the idea that the place of least light, a black hole, where matter is stripped of its defining characteristics, sounds exactly like outer darkness, to which souls are consigned to be returned back to the condition they were in before they came into contact with God.

(This is a diversion from the main topic but if it is the case that black holes are outer darkness, and that everything, including the remnants of those souls who are assigned there, eventually gets recycled, then perhaps what comes out of black holes - hawking radiation - might in some way be related to, or even be a form of, intelligence.)  

I suspect that either light is the medium through which truth is conveyed, or in ways yet to be worked out, light is truth. 

Verse 12 of the above refers to light filling the immensity of space. Light is a form of energy. The only thing I know that fills the immensity of space is the form of energy we refer to as the cosmic microwave background. 

I suspect that if you compare the properties of light/energy with the properties of truth/intelligence you might find enough similarities to have cause to start thinking that they might be the same thing.  

If we accept the idea that this universe started with the big bang, and maybe that's true and maybe its not, and that God played a part in enabling the big bang to happen, then that could be part of the explanation for how God created all truth, because light only came into existence as a consequence of the big bang. 

[laronius]

On a related note coming from that same section of the D&C are these words:

36 All kingdoms have a law given; 37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom. 38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. 39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

The first question that comes to my mind is What law has our present state or kingdom been given? In the gospel we are commanded to live a Celestial law but we live in a Telestial state. 

This mortal existence really is an interesting thing. It allows for Celestial type beings (at least those working to become so) to live nextdoor to Telestial type beings (or worse) with both being able to fully engage in their own lifestyles. It really is a good proving ground.

[zil2]

1 hour ago, laronius said:

This mortal existence really is an interesting thing. It allows for Celestial type beings (at least those working to become so) to live nextdoor to Telestial type beings (or worse) with both being able to fully engage in their own lifestyles. It really is a good proving ground.

Hmm.  Sounds sort of like this:

Quote

D&C 76:86 These [telestial beings] are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;

87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.

88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation.

[Anddenex]

The glory of God is "Light and Truth". I take this verse to be both figurative and literal. Our bodies are wrapped in glory (light), even such that it has the ability to kill a mortal body unless that body is quickened -- light increased.