Fire & Brimstone. Yikes!

[nytesong]

So Sunday before last, our regular teacher was not teaching our class (she just had her baby, yay!) and we had this other person.

he went on to teach about Jesus coming back to earth someday and had us take turns reading passages out loud. i'm paraphrasing here, but the passages talked about him coming back in 'garments of red' which the teacher said meant blood. and he went on to describe just 'how' he was coming back and what he was going to do to the 'wicked.' he even joked about him being the Terminator!

:eek:

He spoke of then there being a period of 1000 years where the wicked left behind would have a chance to be taught and redeemed before the final reckoning (i think that's the word he used).

anyways, my husband and i, who are not yet members were quite appalled!!! here, all along we've been being taught that Jesus and His message is more about love, etc. we were even told that the reason why the lds church doesn't have pictures of Jesus on the cross because the lds church prefers to focus more on his life than on his death.

From everything i've read on my own, i just have a hard time believing that Jesus would come back Terminator style and just wipe out people left and right. and just what would determine someone is wicked if that is the case? People who don't follow a particular faith? (that what of the people in this world that have never even come into contact with the correct faith? seems unfair to me!) People who only give 2%? or drink an occasional coffee?

Please don't take me as belittling, becasue I'm not at all. I'm just trying to understand because this really seemed to come out of the blue and it's been really bothering me the last couple of weeks.

I would simply love it and be extremely thankful for anyone who could chime in here and tell me their take (or what they have learned in their class) about all of this. Like I said, it's really bothering me and the thought of exposing my children to learning something like this and being frightened just doesn't sit right with me.

Please help!

[Gwen]

sounds like the teacher got carried away. yes there will be bad things that happen (as there are now). anything that befalls the wicked they will have brought upon themselves. our heavenly father has always given chance after chance for repentence. if you read the scriptures, including the bible, there are many "horrible" things that "god did" to the wicked. he flooded the earth and killed nearly all mankind. on other occassions entire cities were destroyed. noah preached for years and years before the flood, had anyone listened they would have been on the ark too. what about the children who were following their parents and didn't have a choice? god is just and merciful, they will be taken care of, there are far wose things than death.

as far as who the wicked are; it does not mean chruch members and non members. we are all judged on what we do with what we know. there will be chruch members that will suffer the fate of the "wicked" and many non members that will live to see the savior and all to follow.

those that fear justice have done something wrong and have reason to fear. it protects the righteous as much as punishes the wicked. everyone will have equal opportunity to accept or reject god. god is merciful beyond comprehension at times but when the day of reckening does come do not doubt justice.

just my first thoughts, hope it helps

[HiJolly]

So Sunday before last, our regular teacher was not teaching our class (she just had her baby, yay!) and we had this other person.

Yay indeed. We had two babies born in our ward last week. So exciting.

he went on to teach about Jesus coming back to earth someday and had us take turns reading passages out loud. i'm paraphrasing here, but the passages talked about him coming back in 'garments of red' which the teacher said meant blood. and he went on to describe just 'how' he was coming back and what he was going to do to the 'wicked.' he even joked about him being the Terminator!

:eek:

Yeah, that's unjustified and sadly inappropriate. The Terminator was unfeeling and disregarded all human life as worthless. Christ is totally the opposite.

It is true that when the Savior returns in glory, the heat of that glory will 'burn' the wicked. That's clear from what the Bible says. But we also know that those so burned will be able to hear the Gospel message in the spirit world, later. What's interesting to me in that regard is what you say next:

He spoke of then there being a period of 1000 years where the wicked left behind would have a chance to be taught and redeemed before the final reckoning (i think that's the word he used).

That's the exact opposite of what is taught by the Church, and sounds really quite evangelical in nature, although to my understanding they believe that the time between the 'rapture' and the final reckoning will be 3 1/2 years, not 1,000 years. We believe that the wicked will be removed, and the righteous (WHICH INCLUDES MANY NON-LDS PEOPLE) will live the 1,000 years together, and Christ will reign on the earth personally over these people and their descendants.

anyways, my husband and i, who are not yet members were quite appalled!!! here, all along we've been being taught that Jesus and His message is more about love, etc. we were even told that the reason why the lds church doesn't have pictures of Jesus on the cross because the lds church prefers to focus more on his life than on his death.

From everything i've read on my own, i just have a hard time believing that Jesus would come back Terminator style and just wipe out people left and right. and just what would determine someone is wicked if that is the case? People who don't follow a particular faith? (that what of the people in this world that have never even come into contact with the correct faith? seems unfair to me!) People who only give 2%? or drink an occasional coffee?

Yes, Jesus is a God of love, no doubt about it. I hope you commented on these things to someone in the class, or perhaps a member of the Bishopbric.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Weird lesson. When Christ returns, there won't be any wicked people left here and we will have 1000 years of peace. I had heard that His red clothing symbolized his atoning sacrifice, but I'll have to find a reference for that. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Perhaps the teacher did get carried away. However, is it so hard to believe that God will JUDGE the wicked?

Many in today's society say, "Yes, that is offensive. God cannot judge us. What if we didn't know? What if we were brought up wrong? What if... And besides...who's to say what's right and what's wrong? So long as we follow our heart, we cannot be juidged, right?

There will be a day of judgment. God will punish the wicked. If that's offensive, imho, we must needs be offensive--not by our tone or our self-righteousness, but by speaking the truth, in love.

[nytesong]

I guess I've never seen God needing to 'punish' the wicked. To have this great show of doing it. I see that kind of as a way to 'scare' the righteous. And I don't think God needs to rule by fear, you know?

I've always thought that if he were to come back and there was a need to rid/punish the world of the wicked he wouldn't have to do it in way that would drive fear into the hearts of people.

[prisonchaplain]

I really don't want to come off sounding like that teacher in the OP, or some hillbilly fundamentalist preacher. On the other hand, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and no matter how small the outer darkness is, there is an outer darkness.

There has to be a balance between the fear-mongering, almost joyful descriptions of hellfire and torment that some engage in, and the near refusal to consider that God will judge and punish the wicked.

[Moksha]

Jesus as the Terminator! Should have looked the instructor square in the eye and said, "You feeling lucky Preacher? Well do ya? But, before you answer, you should know this is a .44 magnum quad in my hand...".

[inthearmsofsleep]

I feel it necessary to state that God flooding the Earth in Noah's time was an act of mercy towards those who were living in wickedness because they would no longer be able to commit further sin. This was after they went beyond hearing his message and until this kind of action was necessary. I'm sorry you had a weird experience at church... sometimes a teacher can get carried away with their own ideas and not teach by the spirit, which would have let them know that something was wrong with the lesson had they been sensitive to it. You need not worry, though.... Christ's message of love is still the same as it ever was and as it ever will be.

[Gwen]

i agree with pc on this one. the scriptures talk about the fear of god. i personally think we should do the right thing for the right reason and fear isn't a good one, so i don't think it means what some portray it as. we should do the right thing because we love god, not out of fear of him. but there is justice, those that sow wicked seeds will reap just that. i guess god could just strike someone dead and not let it happen in a "horrible" way but i think some "deserve" it. we can be pleased with justice without being delightful about someone's suffering.

for example, i know a woman who was serverly abused by a man as a child. this man abused many, he was a predator that escaped the system. caused a lot of trama and hurt that took years to get over and some may have never gotten over it. she heard after she was grown that he had contracted an std that caused him a very painful death. she knew that was just the start of his consequences for his actions. she didn't delight in it but did find comfort in knowing that justice would be served, he did not get away with what he had done. it did help her heal in some ways. how many news reports have you heard where the crime was just so vile that it made you sick? the "fear of god" or justice doesn't bring comfort there? again not saying one should delight, but to know there is justice is comforting; to me at least.

all that being said, i do believe that god's message and focus is love, it's mercy, it's inspiring and uplifting not dark and fear ridden. i think that is why we focus so much on heaven, repentence, forgiveness, and the other beautiful parts of the gospel. to quote pc "...no matter how small the outer darkness is, there is an outer darkness."

if you aren't speeding you don't have to fear that there is a cop hiding behind a tree around the next curve.

do what is right because you love god, it's the right thing to do. focus on the glory and wonderful things of god. and when you have been severly wronged let it go knowing that there is justice and god will deal with them. the fear of god is real. so is his love.

[Traveler]

There is another way to look at the symbolism that is given in this and other scriptures. When it is spoken of that Jesus will destroy the wicked many of us think of people rather than deeds. May I suggest that in the destruction of wickedness in individuals as well as society there is sadness and even a kind of death as we struggle to give up who we have been and become a child of righteousness.

In the Book of Mormon, Alma asked the question, “Have you been stripped of your pride?” I find this of strange description. Why not just ask if we have turned away from pride or have we had enough pride yet?

I believe the sad truth is that we really have not learned to “abhor” sin until after a battle of detestation. For whatever reason until we have been burned to sorrow we tend to hang on to one little sin or another – thinking that it really is not that bad and surely G-d will not turn us away for a little sin – just the big ones that we would never do but that we know and blame other for doing. Ever notice how real wickedness is something somebody else is doing and never the person talking?

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Traveler brings up an excellent point. For all my talk of judgment (not really that much)...the Scriptures also inform us that judgment begins in the household of faith. Further, Jesus' strongest words of condemnation were not towards sinners, but towards religious leaders and the self-righteous.

So, perhaps it is not "those sinners" who should fear God, but rather that I should?

[Traveler]

Traveler brings up an excellent point. For all my talk of judgment (not really that much)...the Scriptures also inform us that judgment begins in the household of faith. Further, Jesus' strongest words of condemnation were not towards sinners, but towards religious leaders and the self-righteous.

So, perhaps it is not "those sinners" who should fear God, but rather that I should?

Just a note: I try to understand the scriptural term of "fearing" G-d as having respect and honor towards G-d. Most would avoid that which they fear.

The Traveler

[Elgama]

Just a note: I try to understand the scriptural term of "fearing" G-d as having respect and honor towards G-d. Most would avoid that which they fear.

The Traveler

for me the fear is not of God its of letting Him down. In the case of Christ hurting him

-Charley