New Candidates?

[NeuroTypical]

The folks calling the shots (and most of the money) understand that it doesn't matter who the Dems run, Trump will win.   The strategy will be to have the Republicans to earn as little public mandate as possible with their coming wins.  Keep the popular left-of-center issues on everyone's mind, and remind everyone about Trump's least popular actions.  And also his least popular attributes (whether he actually has them, or there's been success as painting him as having them.)

Prepare for 4 months of 'woman's healthcare' and 6-3 SCOTUS rulings.  And all the usual smears of racism and sexism, with an ever-shrinking portion of transgender pain.

It'll be interesting to see how they spin Trump vs. the poor.  Harder and harder to do that, what with his "no tax on tips" promise, and the president of the teamsters union showing up, and that everyone except @Phoenix_person has forgotten there were ever any differences between pro-business and pro-worker.

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

It'll be interesting to see how they spin Trump vs. the poor.  Harder and harder to do that, what with his "no tax on tips" promise, and the president of the teamsters union showing up, and that everyone except @Phoenix_person has forgotten there were ever any differences between pro-business and pro-worker.

Unions are dying, but far from dead. A lot of Teamsters, including O'Brian's #2 guy, have been screaming for the past week that Sean O'Brian doesn't speak for them. The AFL-CIO, the only political lobbying group larger and more influencial in MN than the one I affiliate with, has been a massive factor in keeping Minnesota on the blue side of purple. And a lot of UAW folks didn't take kindly to Trump criticizing their leadership in his RNC speech. The GOP has a long anti-labor track record, and I don't think one election cycle is going to change that much. Trump is only one man. If he's truly pro-labor (and I'm far from convinced), he's going to have an uphill battle against his own party to make any progress. Remember how his attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare went? 

The tax-free tips is legitimately good policy, and something that would be easy for Dems to adopt into their own platform. "Smart" isn't a word I typically associate with Democrats, but mirroring some of Trump's pro-labor policies would be the smart move for them. And those policies will pass more easily in a blue Congress. It'll also be hard to paint Trump as the "law and order" candidate if he's running against an actual cop. The dynamics of this election have shifted in ways that people in both major parties are still sorting out.

[LDSGator]

25 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

also be hard to paint Trump as the "law and order" candidate if he's running against an actual cop.

He’s running against a corrupt prosecutor who has a thing for throwing young black men in jail for “crimes” that seem absurd in 2024. Not a cop. 

[Phoenix_person]

2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

He’s running against a corrupt prosecutor who has a thing for throwing young black men in jail for “crimes” that seem absurd in 2024. Not a cop. 

Fair enough. I'm not the one you need to convince, though. 

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

Fair enough. I'm not the one you need to convince, though. 

Oh, agree. She’s got a mega problem with this though. Law and order types seldom vote democrat, and the base of the party is deeply troubled by this. They won’t vote for Trump (though some might), but they will stay home. 
 

It’s similar to if a Republican nominee worked for Planned Parenthood in their younger years. Just the stench of association is enough to cause serious problems.  

[NeuroTypical]

Whelp, 4 years ago October, there was going to be a Trump rally in Denver.  This was the political climate at the time:

 

Here's hoping the next 4 months can be a tad more civil.  Kind of an odd thing to hope for, but I hope that gaping ear wound might have people re-think their rhetoric.

Edited July 22, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Here's hoping the next 4 months can be a tad more civil

We tend to be prisoners of the moment, but politics has always been a nasty game. 

[Phoenix_person]

15 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Oh, agree. She’s got a mega problem with this though. Law and order types seldom vote democrat, and the base of the party is deeply troubled by this. They won’t vote for Trump (though some might), but they will stay home. 
 

I'm not getting the impression that any Dem voters are hung up on her background currently. On the contrary, the strongest supporters of Kamala's candidacy prior to midday yesterday were from the most vocally anti-cop wing of the party. Just as Trump supporters have looked past his historical ties to the Democratic Party, Kamala seems to be getting at least a temporary pass for her background.

15 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

It’s similar to if a Republican nominee worked for Planned Parenthood in their younger years. Just the stench of association is enough to cause serious problems.  

The GOP nominee is a former donor to Kamala, Hillary, Andrew Cuomo, Schumer, Blagojevich, and Harry Reid. That's a lot of stench that doesn't seem to bother his base.

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Whelp, 4 years ago October, there was going to be a Trump rally in Denver.  This was the political climate at the time:

 

Here's hoping the next 4 months can be a tad more civil.

"soup for our family" 😂

If Dems are smart (see my previous post), they'll do everything they can to drown out the far left noise with centrist-friendly talking points. And my impression this time around is that a lot of leftists are ready to drop the "Bernie Bro" stigma that's plagued them for the last 8 years and put forth an honest effort to be team players, especially now that we have a viable candidate in the wings.

[LDSGator]

42 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I'm not getting the impression that any Dem voters are hung up on her background currently. On the contrary, the strongest supporters of Kamala's candidacy prior to midday yesterday were from the most vocally anti-cop wing of the party. Just as Trump supporters have looked past his historical ties to the Democratic Party, Kamala seems to be getting at least a temporary pass for her background.

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Totally fair. Excellent point on Trump supporters looking past his history too.

 

42 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

The GOP nominee is a former donor to Kamala, Hillary, Andrew Cuomo, Schumer, Blagojevich, and Harry Reid. That's a lot of stench that doesn't seem to bother his base

 All true. 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Phoenix_person said:

Just as Trump supporters have looked past his historical ties to the Democratic Party, Kamala seems to be getting at least a temporary pass for her background.

I don't think any Trump supporter thinks he's a Republican.  He's a Trumpian, who can be counted on to do what's right for Trump.  He made a bunch of promises to folks on the right, and came through in his first 4 years, so he's running as a republican and his word seems to be good enough. 🤷‍♂️

[NeuroTypical]

On 7/21/2024 at 12:16 PM, mikbone said:

Pete Buttigieg - Secretary of Transportation 

I watched the democrat primaries 4 years ago.  Buttigieg was the only person on stage that night that actually gave direct answers based on principled and sound reasoning.   I mean, the principles were all solid left-of-center and therefore WRONG and EVIL©️, but it was nice to hear from someone who wasn't full of blather and politicking and personal attacks and empty words like the rest of 'em.

 

But if not him, then Colorado Gov Polis.  He's the other left-leaning politician for which I have a measure of respect.

 

 

[Phoenix_person]

24 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I watched the democrat primaries 4 years ago.  Buttigieg was the only person on stage that night that actually gave direct answers based on principled and sound reasoning.   I mean, the principles were all solid left-of-center and therefore WRONG and EVIL©️, but it was nice to hear from someone who wasn't full of blather and politicking and personal attacks and empty words like the rest of 'em.

Pete is notably unpopular with black voters, so putting him on the ticket could be problematic further down the road, though not necessarily this year.

I'll confess that I don't know much about your governor, but mine spearheaded the toughest COVID policy in the region, making him massively unpopular among conservatives and a lot of moderates, then won his reelection bid by 8 points. That same election gave the DFL a legislative trifecta, which meant that Walz got to celebrate his electoral win with a tsunami of legislative wins the following spring. He even paid our org a visit to take a victory lap with us. He's a military veteran, a former teacher, and represented my congressional district before I moved here. He was only the second Democrat in the past 100 years to represent MN-01. I can't think of many Dems with a better resume for our base, and I think he'd appeal to a lot of swing voters as well, including those in our red neighboring states.

[Suzie]

Quote

She slept her way into politics. 

Bold statement. What is your proof?

Edited July 23, 2024 by mirkwood
quote fixed

[Suzie]

7 hours ago, LDSGator said:

He’s running against a corrupt prosecutor

She will be running against a convicted felon. Come on. And I am not even a fan of Harris!

[Carborendum]

On 7/21/2024 at 9:33 PM, mikbone said:

Wow, I was wrong.

It looks like the $$ and endorsements are coming in so fast that an open nomination process wont happen.

Obama, Pelosi, and Schumer have not endorsed Harris yet.  Pretty sure that they were the main people pushing Biden out.  Their options are dwindling by the minute.

None of that really matters.  No one is going to buy into Harris being competent enough to do the job.  And as much as the media will say how "inspiring" she is and how she exhibits the perfect example of the "strong independent woman", no one is going to buy into it unless they've already bought into it.

Trump will get the votes by a landslide.

Then the "other" ballots will be counted and he'll lose.  

So, be prepared for another 8 years of lost wages and FBI raiding Christian families in their homes and churches, all while turning a blind eye to the riots by the anti-Israel protesters.

... and BTW, if you say anything critical at all about Kamala, you're obviously misogynist.

I actually heard a new term: Misogynoir.  Interesting.

Edited July 23, 2024 by Carborendum

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, Suzie said:

She will be running against a convicted felon. Come on. And I am not even a fan of Harris!

I’m not a fan of either, especially Trump! 

[NeuroTypical]

13 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Misogynoir.

Lol well now I'm current on my 4th-wave postfeminist wokism.   Gotta go impress my co-workers.

[NeuroTypical]

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/3FcKsSJVzmRSddFP/

[LDSGator]

On 7/22/2024 at 3:54 PM, NeuroTypical said:

But if not him, then Colorado Gov Polis.  He's the other left-leaning politician for which I have a measure of respect.

I’ve heard rumors he’s one of those democrats that at least is open to working with republicans-is that true? I have no idea. 

[NeuroTypical]

11 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I’ve heard rumors he’s one of those democrats that at least is open to working with republicans-is that true? I have no idea. 

I haven't exactly followed him closely, so I don't know much.  I have a favorable-for-a-democrat opinion of him for a couple reasons.

Right after we were all sent home scared for COVID, I would listen to the daily Trump/Pence press briefing, and then the Polis briefing, and then the New York briefing.   Trump/Pence and Polis seemed to have the same script.  It was a mad scramble to get information out to the people, talk about what they knew and didn't know, answer a million questions from scared people enduring quarantine.  Polis came across as a tired dad, trying to help his kids make it through a crisis, even though his kids all hated each other.  And the immediately-politicized business closings, he (very quietly) kept the gun stores open.  Compared to other blue states, CO was light on mask and vax mandates.  He took a "please let's get along" approach.  Colorado was (I think) the first blue state to lift the mask mandate.  I appreciated and respected his leadership.

Also, I don't think anyone even knew he was gay until after he got elected.  It was never part of his campaign - he was content to be judged by his (leftie) merits for nomination and election.

I mean, his husband has done his best to destroy the CO cattle industry, causing our good neighbors to sell their 150 year old multigenerational farm and beat cheeks to a more favorable state.   Polis has done most of the democrat things and half of the progressive things.  I will never vote for him because he's the opposite of a conservative.  But he's not a raging lunatic or a wolf in sheep's clothing or an unthinking robot.

If Harris was to pick him as Veep, I would take it as a sign of maturity and sanity from the Dems.  And these days, I'm always happy to find a sign of maturity and sanity in the world.  Low bar, but there it is.

[Phoenix_person]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/3FcKsSJVzmRSddFP/

A lot of people on the left are saying that Pelosi did to Biden what the RNC should have done to Trump before the primaries, given that his first term led to J6, a mountain of legal drama, and two impeachment proceedings. A lot of us were also thinking about 25A after J6. It would have cut his term short by only a couple weeks, but it would have spared us the return tour. One way or another, there's going to be a post-Trump GOP within the next decade.

My own biases aside, I think legitimizing his presidential bid this year was objectively an electoral mistake. Granted, there isn't a single Republican who can galvanize the GOP base the way Trump has. But he comes with a lot of baggage, especially the second time around, and there are a lot of GOP voters who would gladly vote for someone else if given a chance. Instead, the cult of Trump is front and center once again, holding the rest of the party hostage to extremist elements in the party. No, I don't believe Trump is an extremist. But his base is filled with far right extremists. Trump knows it, and he knows exactly what to say to work them into a frenzy. That's not the kind of person I would want leading my party. And once he's gone, who leads then? I've been thinking about that moment since 2016. Republicans could have ripped the band-aid off and moved on from Trump this year. I can probably think of a few names that would have been strong opponents for Biden, and even Kamala. Instead, the GOP is kicking the can down the road and letting MAGA continue to hijack the party.

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by Phoenix_person

[Suzie]

If Trump wins, proper and fair election. Excellent news! 👏👏👏👏

If Trump loses, the election was stolen!! 😡😡😡

Really? How convenient. lol 

Now let me tell you, it does look like Trump will win ( according to the polls but who knows?) therefore no need to start with the excuses of a stolen election when people didn't even vote yet lol.

[LDSGator]

51 minutes ago, Suzie said:

Trump wins, proper and fair election. Excellent news! 👏👏👏👏

If Trump loses, the election was stolen!! 😡😡😡

 

Exactly 

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, Suzie said:

If Trump wins, proper and fair election. Excellent news! 👏👏👏👏

If Trump loses, the election was stolen!! 😡😡😡

Really? How convenient. lol 

Yep.  A longstanding gripe I've had with the losers of the presidential election, going back a lot of presidents.  I started getting ticked off about this phenomenon in Nov-Dec 2000, when Gore refused to concede the election.  Broward county.  Hanging chads.  Election commissions that started counting ballots with one set of rules, and then changed processes to something that favored Gore halfway through the count.  "Gore and his team of lawyers".  Finally, the Supreme Court issued it's decision that said Bush was president, and Gore needed to shut up about it.  December 12, 2000.  The news media and the broad culture was chock full of Gore supporters and anti-Bush people who were energetically loud about how the election had been stolen.  Anyone else remember the flood of "He's not my president!" bumper stickers?  I think the last time I saw one was shortly before COVID, on the bumper of an ancient Subaru.

Things didn't get that bad again until 2020, when Trump made it worse.  As we moved through Nov and Dec, the news media and broader culture were ramped up to 10x the panic and hatred and namecalling we saw with Bush/Gore.   I counted down the days to December 12, 2020, trying to remind people that they were freaking out about something that nobody freaked out about at this time in the calendar when Gore was calling foul.   Then December 13 hit, and I got sad.  And sadder and sadder for another 3 weeks when J6 happened. 

Yeah, Trump did it worse.  A lot worse.  But holy crap do people have short memories or forgiving natures about the history of "the other side of the fence".

1 hour ago, Suzie said:

Now let me tell you, it does look like Trump will win ( according to the polls but who knows?) therefore no need to start with the excuses of a stolen election when people didn't even vote yet lol.

Preach, sister.   I mean, I've given up hope that no matter who loses, the other side will call foul.  But yeah, it would be nice if they'd actually wait until voting at least starts before people start calling foul.   I mean, there's foulness in the air.  The assassination attempt wasn't fake news.   But the pressure to force Biden to step down was hardly a coup.

Everyone who would like people to grow up a little, stand up and preach!

 

Edited July 24, 2024 by NeuroTypical

[Phoenix_person]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yeah, Trump did it worse.  A lot worse.  But holy crap do people have short memories or forgiving natures about the history of "the other side of the fence".

In my defense, I was 15 when that election happened and never really read up on the specifics of everything that went down until it started happening again 4 years ago. Gore was a fool, but he did the right thing in the end, even if it was only because he was out of time and options.