How do you help the poor that will always be among you?

[Backroads]

There may be a little bit of compassion fatigue here mixed with an attempt to say, see, there's a problem. But I had an experience today that makes me wonderful just how to help this person. I know there are far worse examples.

A couple of my buy nothing/local needs/free stuff groups have the same individual in them. Let's call her Betty. For several years now, Betty pops up a few times a month to beg for this and that. She seems to be in and out of housing and jobs, and apparently loses her SNAP and WIC every time she gets a job. Early on, people accused Betty of being some sort of scammer, but the reality of reports seems to be that she is just entirely helpless, not even clever enough to turn these into scams. 

For the past year in particular, she has been unable to access many a local bit of help due to having her driver's license stolen. She can't replace it because her family apparently won't help her. So a couple of weeks ago, I challenged her to talk to the vital records office about getting a free copy of her birth certificate (which she can get because she is currently homeless. She says it's too hard and the family member who is living at a hotel with her doesn't know how to help. So... I actually offer to meet her at the vital records office or, if she can't figure out how to get there, lead her in a conference call with someone there to walk her through the steps. She agrees.

Today is to be the day. She says she doesn't feel well enough to make a call.

She then posts this evening in two groups how she is desperate for food. 

Like, I don't know how to help this woman. She can't be bothered to help herself.

I now feel quite un-Christlike after typing this, but it makes me wonder what we as mortals can do to help people like this. Is this just a fate of a fallen world? 

[Phoenix_person]

If she's food insecure, then that's a much more immediate concern to her than a drivers license. People who live like that often struggle to plan past their next meal. They live in fight/flight mode 24/7 and it's exhausting. The best thing you could do for her is try to get her linked up with a social worker if she doesn't already have one. Might be difficult without ID, but that's where I'd start. Social workers exist to help people who struggle to help themselves.

Edited yesterday at 09:40 AM by Phoenix_person

[Carborendum]

7 hours ago, Backroads said:

There may be a little bit of compassion fatigue here mixed with an attempt to say, see, there's a problem. But I had an experience today that makes me wonderful just how to help this person. I know there are far worse examples.

I hear you.

7 hours ago, Backroads said:

A couple of my buy nothing/local needs/free stuff groups have the same individual in them. Let's call her Betty. For several years now, Betty pops up a few times a month to beg for this and that. She seems to be in and out of housing and jobs, and apparently loses her SNAP and WIC every time she gets a job. Early on, people accused Betty of being some sort of scammer, but the reality of reports seems to be that she is just entirely helpless, not even clever enough to turn these into scams. 

Is this because of lack of knowledge/understanding?  Or is it because she is intellectually challenged?  If she simply doesn't know how, you go one route.  If she's intellectually challenged, take another route.

To clarify: When I say "intellectually challenged" she may not fit the clinical definition of "retarded" (IQ below 75).  But if she's on the lower end of normal (80-85) she simply may not have learned a lot of what you and I take for granted.

So, the first thing is to try to educate her (with a lot of patience).  But if she's always been this way, then one problem you'll have is that she's told herself "I just can't..."

Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right.  So, you'll have that to work through.  And it will not be easy.  A lifetime of programming has told her "I can't."  You're not going to deprogram that overnight.

7 hours ago, Backroads said:

For the past year in particular, she has been unable to access many a local bit of help due to having her driver's license stolen. She can't replace it because her family apparently won't help her. So a couple of weeks ago, I challenged her to talk to the vital records office about getting a free copy of her birth certificate (which she can get because she is currently homeless. She says it's too hard and the family member who is living at a hotel with her doesn't know how to help. So... I actually offer to meet her at the vital records office or, if she can't figure out how to get there, lead her in a conference call with someone there to walk her through the steps. She agrees.

Something similar to this has happened to the young lady that my wife and I have been helping.  She basically needs to be walked through the process.  We think it's easy to just print out a form.  But she doesn't have a printer.  We think it is easy to just look up a govt. bldg. on Google.  But she can't spell.  Sometimes she can't remember words like "vital records."  And she may not quite understand the directions that Google gives from her GPS. 

We take all these things for granted.  But if she's never been taught...

7 hours ago, Backroads said:

Today is to be the day. She says she doesn't feel well enough to make a call.

She then posts this evening in two groups how she is desperate for food. 

Like, I don't know how to help this woman. She can't be bothered to help herself.

I now feel quite un-Christlike after typing this, but it makes me wonder what we as mortals can do to help people like this. Is this just a fate of a fallen world? 

Every person needs to make a judgment call about how much we can help, and when we have reached the limit.  At some point, when we've really done what we can to help out, we need to make a call.  And each call is situation specific.  There is no rule.  It's just judgment.

And the limit for you will be different than it is for other. Put your own mask on first, then help the next person. Ponder and pray for guidance.  Then understand your proper priorities.

ALSO: If you think that all social links have been exhausted, it may be time to bring government into it as @Phoenix_person said.  While I'd always encourage that as a last resort only, it may be that this situation is appropriate for government safety nets.  But beware of one thing, the number of people who are able to ween themselves off of it, while a significant number, is still pretty low.  The fact that she may never get off of it is a reason to try to avoid it.  But if it is the last resort...

Edited yesterday at 12:12 PM by Carborendum

[Backroads]

4 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

If she's food insecure, then that's a much more immediate concern to her than a drivers license. People who live like that often struggle to plan past their next meal. They live in fight/flight mode 24/7 and it's exhausting. The best thing you could do for her is try to get her linked up with a social worker if she doesn't already have one. Might be difficult without ID, but that's where I'd start. Social workers exist to help people who struggle to help themselves.

Sadly, people have tried that. She has no interest in a social worker. She refuses to work with anyone.

Edited yesterday at 01:02 PM by Backroads

[mirkwood]

There is also the possibility she just wants to be catered to and people have been giving her what she wants with little or no effort on her part.  That is common among the homeless crowd.

[Backroads]

@Carborendum Much in your post fits the situation. There is evidence to suggest she does have an intellect problem, which can't be easy. She has a job, but can't get it together to keep money on hand.

I know a few people have tried to involve a social worker, but nothing comes of it. 

It's just frustrating and sad.

 

[Backroads]

3 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

There is also the possibility she just wants to be catered to and people have been giving her what she wants with little or no effort on her part.  That is common among the homeless crowd.

I hate to say it, but this is almost what I suspect. Which sounds curmudgeonly, but there's that confession.

[Carborendum]

17 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I hate to say it, but this is almost what I suspect. Which sounds curmudgeonly, but there's that confession.

I don't believe any aspect of Backroads is curmudgeonly.  That's for old men like me.

It seems you've taken sincere measures to help someone who is operating at below optimal conditions.  And she is swatting away your hand of charity.

[Carborendum]

28 minutes ago, Backroads said:

@Carborendum Much in your post fits the situation. There is evidence to suggest she does have an intellect problem, which can't be easy. She has a job, but can't get it together to keep money on hand.

I know a few people have tried to involve a social worker, but nothing comes of it. 

It's just frustrating and sad.

There are a couple of things I'm aware of that cause people to ignore the concept of "savings."

1. I think that this behavior comes from overemphasis on "living in the now."  The young lady we're helping out does that to the detriment of planning for the future.

• We learn from the past.
• We hope and plan for the future.
• We live in the now.

I'm afraid that people see point #3 and forget #1 & #2.

2. Often times, poor people normally don't have money left over at the end of the paycheck.  So, they get stuck in this mentality of "I must spend every dollar I have."  So, even if they do have $10 at the end of the month.  They spend it by habit, rather than trying to save.

3. Some people have simply lost hope.  Without hope, there is no reason to save for the future.  Today is all they have and can't even imagine a future.

 

[NeuroTypical]

There are mentally ill people, and there are scammers.  There are lazy people, and there are low-iq people without the brain power to understand.  There are entitled people and folks with PTSD who are struggling with being abused by people they should have been able to trust.  

Here's the thing - we often can't tell who is who by just looking at them or even working with them.  The line from that hymn nailed it: Who am I to judge another when I walk imperfectly? In the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can’t see.

Scripture is pretty clear on things too: 

Quote

Mosiah 4:17-18: "Perhaps thou shalt say: The man has brought upon himself his misery; therefore I will stay my hand, and will not give unto him of my food, nor impart unto him of my substance that he may not suffer, for his punishments are just—  But I say unto you, O man, whosoever doeth this the same hath great cause to repent; and except he repenteth of that which he hath done he perisheth forever, and hath no interest in the kingdom of God."

 

So we're left with a good reasonable basis for not judging, a scriptural commandment to not judge, and a very reasonable question about what help looks like and what it doesn't look like.  

- Giving someone help who could do it themselves isn't help, it's enabling their laziness.  That's not charity, that's not love, that's not respecting someone's agency, that's being a sucker.

- Giving someone help who can't do it themselves is help, is charity, and we're commanded to do it, and if we don't and get all judgey about it we're going to hell.

It can be impossible to tell which sort of person we're dealing with.  So we take our best guess, do our best, and try to live with the consequences.  I'm pretty sure that while @Phoenix_person and his folks' hearts are in the right place, subsidizing single motherhood with taxpayer dollars is the most harmful thing white folk have done to the black community since slavery.  Paying people to keep fathers out of the home is evil, and has ruined lives and increased all the bad things these programs seek to prevent.  That said, each of us will personally be judged by how we've treated the lost and the least of us, and if we screw it up it'll have eternal consequences.  

So do your best and make up your mind and pray for guidance to do the right thing.  

Edited yesterday at 04:36 PM by NeuroTypical

[mirkwood]

11 hours ago, Backroads said:

I hate to say it, but this is almost what I suspect. Which sounds curmudgeonly, but there's that confession.

 

This has been my experience (among many other things) with the homeless.

[Traveler]

I have attempted to help the homeless (and other poor) on a number of occasions.   Each is an individual though there seems to be common threads.  If recreational (sometimes prescription) drugs (including alcohol) are involved there is not much that can be done to help.  There is a strong connection among the poor between drugs and mental instability.

In my youth such mental instability was solved by committing those individuals to mental institutions.  Individuals that resisted were medicated according to their level of resistance.   There was a joke when someone acted stupid that the men in the white coats would soon be coming to get them.  I wonder if that threat solved a lot of social problems that seem to have reared up in this era.

There was a group we used to call the intellectual bleeding-heart liberals that determined that institutionalizing the mentally instable against their wishes was cruel punishment.   Most mentally instable also suffer from degrees of paranoia and resist any intrusion ("helpful" relationship) into their life.  I guess that such liberal intellectuals with bleeding hearts think that leaving the mentally instable and addicted to fend for themselves in society is somehow kinder and more charitable.

I am not an expert, but I do believe that anyone that cannot manage themselves needs to be institutionalized.  The amount of self-medication (like a DUI) ought to be an indication that institutionalization or at least some level of oversite is necessary.  Most certainly they should not be registered to vote.

 

The Traveler