Setheus Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 SO now we see your point. You think JS was a false prophet. Why do you believe this? And TR2 "Can I get to the good heaven without believing in JS as prophet" I think that was the whole big point of this entire topic. Way to keep up there big guy!
Tr2 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 I want personal opinions, not doctrine. Yes or no. People seem resistant to give a staight answer. Sethus, you're opinion is not required unless you're answering the question.
Ray Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@ Jun 8 2004, 11:49 AMNot to sound harsh, but I think Joseph Smith was a false prophet.(standing beside Setheus) Yes, why do you believe this? Is that your testimony? How did you get it? Who or what are you relying on to support your belief? Are you prepared to stand before God and tell Him that you didn’t believe Joseph Smith because you didn’t think He was one of His (God’s) prophets?I find it interesting when people state that something is NOT true, or in this case, that Joseph Smith is a FALSE prophet. You must have some kind of support for your position, right? Btw, if you’re going to say that you received revelation or inspiration from God telling you that Joseph Smith was not one of His prophets, ask for revelation by the same spirit whether or not Jesus is the Christ. If you get a negative response to that, you are listening to a lying and deceiving spirit.
shanstress70 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 8 2004, 01:53 PM SO now we see your point. You think JS was a false prophet. Why do you believe this? Sorry Setheus,Not a chance in he## I would do this here. I would be killed by all except the 3 or so people here who are nonmembers. Just not up to it! You probably didn't read my posts a while back - I left the church about 3 months ago, or so.
Ray Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2+ Jun 8 2004, 11:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tr2 @ Jun 8 2004, 11:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>A question: Can I get to the good heaven (I know you folks have more than one) without acknowledging Joseph Smith as a prophet of God?Originally posted by -Tr2@ Jun 8 2004, 12:11 PMI want personal opinions, not doctrine. Yes or no. People seem resistant to give a straight answer.No.<!--QuoteBegin--Ray@ Jun 8 2004, 09:56 AMThe reason any person [alive on this Earth today] needs to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God to get into the celestial kingdom is because a person can only enter the celestial kingdom after receiving certain required ordinances, which can only be received in the temple, which requires a temple recommend, which requires the acceptance of certain revelations and laws from Jesus Christ.Thus, a person needs more than merely to be a member of any ole’ Bible believing church. Straightforward enough for you?
shanstress70 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Are you prepared to stand before God and tell Him that you didn’t believe Joseph Smith because you didn’t think He was one of His (God’s) prophets?Absolutely!You must have some kind of support for your position, right?Yes, I do, but I choose not to go into it here. See my last post to Setheus.I do believe that Jesus is Christ, our savior. The spirit I listen to is not lying or deceiving. I'm 100% certain of that.
Ray Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Hmmm, I have 100% confidence in my position too. So what do you think about that? If you also have 100% confidence in your position, as I have 100% confidence in my position, then I guess we’ll have to wait until the day of judgment before we know for certain which of us is right then, hmmm? Btw, I’ve heard from lots and lots of people who take a position against the Church, or against certain prophets and the things they said, and every single time I have been able to find some reasoning to support my position while maintaining integrity and harmony with all the prophets and the things that were said. Every single time. If I were a bettin’ man, which I’m not, I’d bet that you are operating under some misunderstandings and that I could clear those up. There’s even a good chance that I’ve already gone over the same issues that place you in the position you’re in now. But even if they are different issues than I’ve faced before, I’d still bet that I could clear those up and continue to maintain my integrity and harmony with all the prophets and their teachings. But that really wouldn’t change your position, would it. You wouldn’t believe what I say just because I find some reasoning that makes sense to me, and I really wouldn’t expect you to. After all, why would you trust my reasoning when you have reasoning of your own? And why would you accept my testimony when you have a testimony of your own? The best we can hope for, I think, is for you to live your life the way you think is best, while I live my life the way I think is best. As long as we’re relying on God to guide us, I’m sure He’ll help us find the truth.
Setheus Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Shanstress, IM me if you want to. I will not "attack" you. Not if you take the time to personaly answer my question. I may seem agressive on the board at times but that is "open combat"
shanstress70 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 I think you're a very smart and kind man, Ray. Thank you for your post! I respect you and your beliefs, as I hope you respect mine. :)
Setheus Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 TR2. If I racked you, it would be a one in a million shot! B) Sorry, I was feeling froggy, so I jumped!
shanstress70 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 8 2004, 02:55 PM Shanstress, IM me if you want to. I will not "attack" you. Not if you take the time to personaly answer my question. I may seem agressive on the board at times but that is "open combat" I will try to do that in the morning. That is the first chance I will get... at work! Isn't that sad?
Ray Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 8 2004, 12:56 PM I think you're a very smart and kind man, Ray. Thank you for your post! I respect you and your beliefs, as I hope you respect mine. :) Thank you for your kind words, but to put my attitude in the proper perspective, I would hope that you realize that I respect only your right to have your beliefs, and I respect you only insofar as you honor and uphold what you believe to be right. If you do something wrong or believe incorrectly only because you don’t know any better, I won’t hold that against you.Anyway, words are important, and I place a lot of value on the understanding of truth.
Jason Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 "You think JS was a false prophet. Why do you believe this?" You guys are kidding? Right? Should we start with...oh...say the Book of Mormon?
Jason Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Or...how about polygamy being necessary for exaltation (not salvation mind you...)
Setheus Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Well when we finally meet Jason in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom I will introduce you to my ONE wife. Then you and I will share a harty laugh and walk off into the city streets together and all live happily ever after.
Faerie Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 I agree!! Never been taught that you HAVE to be polygamous to be exalted...guess my husbands future wives better learn to love cooking and cleaning cuz they ain't getting no lovin!!
shanstress70 Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by Unorthodox@Jun 8 2004, 06:13 PM I have a better question:"Why is it important to believe that JS was a prophet?" I might not understand your question correctly, but the reason it is important for YOU or any other member to believe he was, is that you can't get baptized without it.But you knew that, right? I'm pretty sure that's not the question you were asking.
Lindy Posted June 8, 2004 Report Posted June 8, 2004 I think that everyone has the right to believe in what they will...it doesn't make you a better person by believing in JS...it doesn't make you pond scum if you don't believe in him either. We all have the basis of Christ that we look up to, and as believers in such...we shouldn't be hammering each other because of different views of this or different views of that. I'm thinking that a few needed to vent...and that is ok....venting is good sometimes.....but step back and see where it all leads to.....NOWHERE! One nice thing is that we all seem to be pretty intelligent people, who can hold our own when we get our dander up(or someone else does it for us) :) If we all died tomorrow and meet Joseph Smith in Heaven....those that couldn't believe in who he was on earth can just say...."Hey man, I heard about you......nice to meet you." and for those of us who do believe in who he is will get the chance to meet the man...the prophet that we heard so much about. I had a discussion with a former friend who asked me "what if what you believe isn't true...WHAT IF?" He spoke from the depths of his heart....convinced I am going to hell for what I believe in. OK....for the sake of arguement....WHAT IF? Then the LDS people will be judged like everyone else on the face of the earth...judged by the way they lived their lives, the way they honored God, the way they served the Lord, and the way they served others. That's the way they are going to be judged anyway....so WHAT IF doesn't scare me a bit.....I don't even comprehend WHAT IF in my beliefs....I had to come up with an answer to his question......I just thought it was something to share.
shanstress70 Posted June 9, 2004 Report Posted June 9, 2004 I don't take anything too seriously! I like that you don't pretend to have it all figured out!
shanstress70 Posted June 9, 2004 Report Posted June 9, 2004 Originally posted by lindy9556@Jun 8 2004, 06:51 PM I think that everyone has the right to believe in what they will...it doesn't make you a better person by believing in JS...it doesn't make you pond scum if you don't believe in him either.We all have the basis of Christ that we look up to, and as believers in such...we shouldn't be hammering each other because of different views of this or different views of that. I'm thinking that a few needed to vent...and that is ok....venting is good sometimes.....but step back and see where it all leads to.....NOWHERE! One nice thing is that we all seem to be pretty intelligent people, who can hold our own when we get our dander up(or someone else does it for us) :) If we all died tomorrow and meet Joseph Smith in Heaven....those that couldn't believe in who he was on earth can just say...."Hey man, I heard about you......nice to meet you." and for those of us who do believe in who he is will get the chance to meet the man...the prophet that we heard so much about.I had a discussion with a former friend who asked me "what if what you believe isn't true...WHAT IF?" He spoke from the depths of his heart....convinced I am going to hell for what I believe in. OK....for the sake of arguement....WHAT IF? Then the LDS people will be judged like everyone else on the face of the earth...judged by the way they lived their lives, the way they honored God, the way they served the Lord, and the way they served others. That's the way they are going to be judged anyway....so WHAT IF doesn't scare me a bit.....I don't even comprehend WHAT IF in my beliefs....I had to come up with an answer to his question......I just thought it was something to share. Lindy, That is SO well-said! As long as we do what we think we are called to do by God, then I'm pretty sure we'll all be OK, no matter what religion. But that's just my opinion.
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