Men competing in biological female sports.

[Traveler]

There is a movement taking place to allow biological men to compete in women’s sports.  I thought it might be beneficial to have a threat of the arguments that are being used and ways to combat those arguments.

I will start with a recent argument I have seen.  There are benefits in having sports and competing.  There are things learned by competing on a team.  Everyone should have the privilege to compete in sports and try out to be on a team.

I actually agree with all the arguments but there are some things that everyone should know.  When we compete in sports there will always be those that win and perform well in the competition and those that lose and do poorly in the competitions.  The same applies to teams the compete – some will win more than others.  Competitive teams require that those wishing to be on the team “try out”.

There were several sports and teams that I tried out for but did not qualify.  The only sports that I did well in were skiing and cycling.  But even in the sports I did well in – I never reached the level of highly competitive ranking.  I never reached the level of competing to be socially recognized or honored.  I did not achieve all the benefits of competing in sports.  Not everybody does – and I am but one of those.

Everybody can work towards achieving in sports but not everybody can receive honors for it. 

Because there is a difference between biological men and biological women there is a unique category for biological women.  Some argue that anyone identifying as a women should be able to try out and compete in the women category.  This is a misnomer.  Everyone can try out and compete in sports – men’s sports, even women can try out if they so wish.  However, for fairness of sport – there is a category for biological women.  We call this category women’s sports.

Anyone, regardless of how they identify, can try out and compete in sports.  I contend that they can do it regardless of their biological designation.  However, only those that clearly are biological female should be allowed to compete in the unique and separate category of women’s sports.  I realize that there are genetic variations that render an individual on the fringes between male and female.  The simple and obvious solutions is that anyone with XX chromosomes can compete as a female as long as they are not taking male (testosterone) treatments – if they are taking testosterone treatments that will disqualify them from the female category, but they can compete, along with everyone else in the open category of the non-biologically female sports.   PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

The Traveler

[LDSGator]

I am in my athletic prime now-and I’m in my early mid 40’s. Taekwando is my sport. 

I compete in my age group, and being totally blunt-I stink. I’m roughly equal to a d3 benchwarmer who gets by on will, spirit, refusal to quit and determination. Local tournaments are my peak, anyone who knows me knows I’m fine with that. 

If I ever asked my instructors for permission to fight a woman in the next tournament, they’d laugh at me for five minutes, than give me 30 seconds to hand in my athlete pass, then they’d tell me to get out of there and never come back.

 

No, fully born males should not engage in combat sports with women. Of course Rhonda Rousey could annihilate me. She could beat anyone here in a judo match, easily. 

She could not beat Lee Joonhwan even on her best day. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Of course Rhonda Rousey could annihilate me. She could beat anyone here in a judo match, easily. 

She could not beat Lee Joonhwan even on her best day. 

Remember that time that Dana White said, with a straight face, that Rousey could beat Floyd Mayweather? I mean, even if he strictly meant MMA, Mayweather would have KOed Rousey in the first round, probably the first minute. The only competitions Rousey would have bested Mayweather in would have been judo and pregnancy. Stupidest Dana White statement ever. And this analysis from someone who was a huge Rona Rousey fan.

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

Remember that time that Dana White said, with a straight face, that Rousey could beat Floyd Mayweather? I mean, even if he strictly meant MMA, Mayweather would have KOed Rousey in the first round, probably the first minute. The only competitions Rousey would have bested Mayweather in would have been judo and pregnancy. Stupidest Dana White statement ever. And this analysis from someone who was a huge Rona Rousey fan.

I absolutely remember that. He was either trying to hype up her fights, or CTE crept in for minutes. 
 

Floyd Mayweather could KO her in ten seconds. With all due respect to both Rousey and White, Holly Holm has entered the conversation as well. 

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I absolutely remember that. He was either trying to hype up her fights, or CTE crept in for minutes.

White knows all about boxing. He was a boxing promoter and trained in boxing. White knew perfectly well that he was blowing smoke. He was trying to hype Rousey up for the average (ignorant) fan. Anyone who knows two things about fighting, coincidentally about the limit of my own knowledge, knew that he was lying through his teeth.

2 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Floyd Mayweather could KO her in ten seconds. With all due respect to both Rousey and White, Holly Holm has entered the conversation as well. 

Holly Holm was the one, I believe, who exposed Ronda Rousey as the painfully one-dimensional fighter that she was. Unbelievable at judo and submissions, but not even so-so at standup. When she ran into someone she couldn't take down, she got beaten up, to the shock and surprise of absolutely no one who bested that two-thing barrier I mentioned before.

And of course, Holm would not have fared any better against Mayweather than Rousey.

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Anyone who knows two things about fighting, coincidentally about the limit of my own knowledge, knew that he was lying through his teeth.

Complete agreement.

 

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Holly Holm was the one, I believe, who exposed Ronda Rousey as the painfully one-dimensional fighter that she was. Unbelievable at judo and submissions, but not even so-so at standup. When she ran into someone she couldn't take down, she got beaten up, to the shock and surprise of absolutely no one who bested that two-thing barrier I mentioned before.

And of course, Holm would not have fared any better against Mayweather than Rousey.

Yup, 100% agree. 

 

Rousey made the fatal mistake of believing her own hype, which is death to a fighter. 

[LDSGator]

Off topic, but you don’t need Mayweather here as a measuring stick. An amateur male boxer with several months of intense training would have KO’d Rousey in about two minutes. 

[Ironhold]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyla_Rose

All Elite Wrestling's roster includes Nyla Rose, a male - to - female transgender wrestler; Rose is on record as the first transgender wrestler to ever sign with a major professional wrestling promotion. 

When AEW first debuted on television, Rose was very quickly established as the biggest and strongest person on their women's roster, to the point of literally being able to throw some of the other roster members around like metaphorical rag dolls. 

However, Rose had many of the same flaws that larger wrestlers of either gender have: in addition to being slow and clumsy compared to a lot of the lighter wrestlers, Rose also couldn't get up onto the ring ropes to do aerial moves of any kind. This led to a rather famous matchup in which tiny little Riho, a Japanese wrestler who might as well be a Maine Coon kitty for how small she is, ran rings around Rose and repeatedly managed to slip out of every submission hold Rose attempted just by being too small for Rose to get a proper hold on. 

It would take a few years for Rose to develop enough in-ring skill to start compensating for these flaws, and by then AEW had another issue to face: the state of Oklahoma. Oklahoma prohibits mixed-gender matches, and under Oklahoma state law male - to - female athletes are considered legally male. When AEW did a show in Oklahoma they had Rose booked against a female wrestler, and a local promotion NARC'd on them as part of a misguided turf battle. The state let AEW off with a warning due to a technicality, but AEW hasn't done a show in Oklahoma since. 

In this situation, the sport of professional wrestling, we thus have proof that it comes down to the athletic ability and training of the individual athletes. If the match is booked as a "hoss fight" between big sluggers, it's only logical that the script would eventually call for Rose to win unless AEW is *really* trying to sell whoever Rose is up against. But if it's Rose versus someone light and nimble, someone who is much faster but also much more fragile, then it would come down to what story the writers are trying to tell as to who is scripted to win. 

Again though, professional wrestling is generally scripted to at least some degree, with the winners typically predetermined well in advance. 

[Vort]

46 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Off topic, but you don’t need Mayweather here as a measuring stick. An amateur male boxer with several months of intense training would have KO’d Rousey in about two minutes. 

Julianna Peña is as fearsome and complete an MMA fighter as exists among women. Bantamweight champion. Tough as nails. She's from the streets* and has first-hand experience fighting in the raw, as it were. (Not naked—for shame!—but real, nasty, ugly, no-rules actual fighting.) Guaranteed she would mop the floor with my sorry behind if she wanted to. Here is her experience with fighting some random male coworker she had a beef with.

*She's advertised as Venezuelan, but she's actually from Spokane (at least that's where she was born). She's also a purple belt in BJJ, not a level to be scoffed at.

[NeuroTypical]

By the way, August last year saw the United Nations come out against men competing in women's sports.

https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n24/249/94/pdf/n2424994.pdf

In section III. Manifestations of violence against women and girls in sports, the report notes: 

Female athletes are also more vulnerable to sustaining serious physical injuries when female-only sports spaces are opened to males,9 as documented in disciplines such as in volleyball,10 basketball11 and soccer.12 [...] According to scientific studies, males have certain performance advantages in sports. One study asserts that, even in non-elite sport, “the least powerful man produced more power than the most powerful woman” and states that, where men and women have roughly the same levels of fitness, males’ average punching power has been measured as 162 per cent greater than females. 18

 

The report talks about "Denial of the right to freedom of expression, opinion and assembly" in this way: 

Female athletes and coaches who object to the inclusion of men in their spaces due to concerns about safety, privacy and fairness are silenced or forced to self censor; otherwise, they risk losing sporting opportunities, scholarships 78 and sponsorships.79 Many are also accused of bigotry, suspended from sports teams 80 and subjected to restraining orders, expulsion, defamation and unfair disciplinary proceedings. In at least one case, a female athlete did not receive a fair hearing.81 Other females have quit sport owing to pressure, threats (including death threats 82) and verbal abuse. Such consequences have been reported in, inter alia, the Kingdom of the Netherlands83 and the United States,84 violating the fundamental human rights of female athletes to freedom of belief, opinion and expression. 85 Women face aggression when they assemble with respect to these issues. 86

 

At the end of the report in the Conclusions and Recommendations section: The Special Rapporteur therefore makes the following recommendations to States, international organizations, sporting bodies at all levels, civil society and other relevant actors, consistent with their mandates:
[...]
90. In order to ensure safety and fairness in sport at all levels, they should: [...] Ensure that female categories in organized sport are exclusively accessible to persons whose biological sex is female. In cases where the sex of an athlete is unknown or uncertain, a dignified, swift, non-invasive and accurate sex screening method (such as a cheek swab) or, where necessary for exceptional reasons, genetic testing should be applied to confirm the athlete’s sex. In non-professional sports spaces, the original birth certificates for verification may be appropriate. In some exceptional circumstances, such tests may need to be followed up by more complex tests;

Edited June 8 by NeuroTypical