MARRAIGE FOR THE OVER 30s

[WANDERER]

Best wishes in your searching Countrybear.

[Elgama]

Elgama, so you only like a man if you can seperate him from his priesthood, why? is it about power, jelousy, femanism, spiritual emasculation what? Further Is it not women who are constantly saying that a man needs the priesthood to be their equal. If it such a big turn off in the LDS community to be a priesthood holder why should we bother.

One of the prophets said he would rather his daughter marry a good non member than a bad priesthood holder, holding the priesthood and even temple recommend do not automatically make you pleasant company or a good man, I know plenty who are not and treat their wives badly (check the thread called Priesthood Complacency)

It is not a turn off to be a Priesthood holder you missed my point by a mile, its the fact you see it as a magic key to a heart and you demand things from women that you have to work for, a womans affections and love are not a right they are very much a privileged they need to be earned. And if your not willing to work for them you don't deserve to be married,

I don't think you intend it but your posts come across as really male chauvinist, angry and creepy if you approached me in this way in real life, I would be worried you were inclined to unrighteous dominion, serious anger, mental and possibly physical abuse all of which make your priesthood invalid. Its just me but because you choose to degrade women in your post, you are on the rebound - yes I would say you are a very unattractive prospect for marriage. I expect more from my husband than just a certificate that says he is a priesthood holder he has to be a good man too.

-Charley

[SanctitasDeo]

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Elgama, so you only like a man if you can seperate him from his priesthood, why? is it about power, jelousy, femanism, spiritual emasculation what? Further Is it not women who are constantly saying that a man needs the priesthood to be their equal. If it such a big turn off in the LDS community to be a priesthood holder why should we bother.

I think no one is entitled to anything. Having the priesthood certainly doesn't entitle me to a good wife.

However, having those same qualities that we are told we should have as priesthood holders will make us more attractive to women.

6 Remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence.--D&C 4:6

It is not in the separation from the priesthood that women find men attractive. It is in the honoring of that priesthood by the man who holds it, which includes not assuming that it entitles one to marriage.

That said, good luck, man. I hope you are successful.

[pushka]

Just a quickie from a newly Baptised, single, 40+, female in the UK...

Can you give us any examples (without names etc.) of the kinds of actions that have made you feel the women are more worldly, egotistical, less respecting of PH these days?

The answer you provide to the question above could give us women clues as to the types of behaviours we might be displaying, which you unwittingly assume mean we are more worldly etc.

Now that I have become a member of the church, I would prefer to meet, if I meet anybody at all, members of the Church, whether they currently hold the PH or not, or a Temple Recommend or not (I don't wish to pass judgement on somebody just because they don't currently hold the PH or a TR, without them explaining the reasons to me if we start dating and if the reasons are relevant to our relationship).

Like Gabelma and others have stated, it is a person's personality, interests, attitudes to each other that are important in a successful relationship. Holding the PH and a current TR are more like bonuses..

I get the impression that you're still angered by your divorce, and perhaps would benefit from space to develop friendships with other women at this stage, rather than focussing on whether or not a person is ideal marriage fodder :)

[Canuck Mormon]

I have been where you are and I can relate to what you are going through. The first thing I did after I was divorced is took care of myself and my son. When I finally felt ready to date again, I took it real slow. I started hanging out on LDS singles sites, attending a few singles events, etc. I ran into the same sort of thing. Women weren't interested unless you were an RM. I was upset at first, but persisted and eventually found the woman of my dreams. We met last in August (06) and were married this past July. There are women out there who are looking fro what you offer. Have patience and trust in the Lord.

[COUNTRYBEAR]

It is interesting to note that the male/ female divide on this issue it seems we see the world from different eyes, by the way Iam not a chauvanist, unbalanced or creepy. Those men who have been where I am relate instantly and know what I am saying where as I tend to hear the same sroke broardside answer from the sisters. My questions and replies were never meant to be hurtful or derogatory. However I refuse to apologise for vocalizing the facts of my own personal experiences and observations and it would seem that I am not alone. It would seem that haveing feelings that go against the political church doctrine of never seeing or speaking of sisters wrong doing will have me burned as a heratic all I can say is turn me over I am done on this side. By the by next time you ask your priesthood holder for a blessing perhaps he should say no after all your not entitled to anything, although I was always taught that the pristhood was duty bound to bless the faithful but hey lets try it your way. Then again perhaps it is all my fault, being a man and all- phew back on safe mormon political ground, may be a just have a low threshold for arrogant, sarcastic, self-opinionated, worldly and stuck-up women, Its not nessacery for her to have all these traits one at a time is more than sufficent. I guess I am attracted to the happy, down to earth but intelligent women who desire to work with me not compete with me it is so tiresome to try to live celestial covenants such as concecration with such women. If Im sound angry so what I invested 10 years of love and loyalty into my wife and in return she spat in my face, riped my guts out and flushed um and gess what it sucked but perhaps your right Iam not entitled to things like kindness, respect and loyalty there only for women right. All i can say is thank god women such as above arn't the final judges in Israel but it would be hell to thing that descency entitles you to nothing. In fact such such an attitude is not scripturaly born out for those who inherit celestial glory do so as a result of obedience to the gospel and in return inherit their promised (entitled) reward of eternal increse though the new and everalsting covenant of marraige. If the sisters can pick that appart because they dont like it then they have some serious doctrinal issues.

[skalenfehl]

Brother, it sounds like you're addressing/describing your ex-wife, instead of addressing/describing the rest of the ladies here. I can tell you are truly hurting right now. I hope things start to ease up and that you have a good support system.

[Elgama]

It is interesting to note that the male/ female divide on this issue it seems we see the world from different eyes, by the way Iam not a chauvanist, unbalanced or creepy. Those men who have been where I am relate instantly and know what I am saying where as I tend to hear the same sroke broardside answer from the sisters. .

I didn't say you were if you had read my post I said that was how you were coming across, men and women are very different it may be worth you reading the Mars and Venus books and maybe you would understand that. I am not trying to upset you my aim was to show you how you came across in your posts and maybe if you spoke that way in real life it maybe how people see you.

Yes I am opinionated, I tend to scare a lot of men off because I treat them as equals and expect the same in return - I ask a lot of the men around me, but as a result I get the very best men in my circle of friends - is that a bad thing?

-Charley

[Ray A]

It is interesting to note that the male/ female divide on this issue it seems we see the world from different eyes, by the way Iam not a chauvanist, unbalanced or creepy.

I went through separation/divorce eight years ago. If your wife didn't leave you bankrupt, then you're faring better than I did, at least in the financial department. I understand what bitterness is. I understand what real pain is. I know what it's like to begin rebuilding your life by starting over again from scratch, by buying a $20 toaster, sleeping on floor matresses for four years, and working up to buying a car and getting back on your feet. From bankruptcy, eight years later I'm now debt free, and my name cleared. I am still single, and have no desire, at the moment, to remarry. Perhaps 22 years of marriage does something like this to you, ending in a complete disaster.

It is natural to want to fall back on the Church, and the priesthood, because you need sanctuary, and you need to reinforce your self-worth after being treated so callously. Your ex-wife obviously didn't honour your priesthood, and this magnifies your feelings negatively. As important as the priesthood is, it is not entirely you. Who you are is more important to any potential future partner, than whether or not you even hold the priesthood. Women don't want to marry the PH, they marry you, the person, for who you are, not what titles you hold. When President Kimball was an apostle, he reflected that all the adulation he got was not because of who he was, but because of the office he held. And he never let that power get to his head, always remembering this fact. By the time of his death people did honour him for who he was, not only because of the office he held, but because through the years his example of humility and dedication and self-sacrifice left a lasting legacy on the minds and hearts of those who knew him. The priesthood doesn't make the man, the man makes the priesthood by magnifying it in righteous ways, and by making righteous judgements.

[Canuck Mormon]

It is interesting to note that the male/ female divide on this issue it seems we see the world from different eyes, by the way Iam not a chauvanist, unbalanced or creepy. Those men who have been where I am relate instantly and know what I am saying where as I tend to hear the same sroke broardside answer from the sisters. My questions and replies were never meant to be hurtful or derogatory. However I refuse to apologise for vocalizing the facts of my own personal experiences and observations and it would seem that I am not alone. It would seem that haveing feelings that go against the political church doctrine of never seeing or speaking of sisters wrong doing will have me burned as a heratic all I can say is turn me over I am done on this side. By the by next time you ask your priesthood holder for a blessing perhaps he should say no after all your not entitled to anything, although I was always taught that the pristhood was duty bound to bless the faithful but hey lets try it your way. Then again perhaps it is all my fault, being a man and all- phew back on safe mormon political ground, may be a just have a low threshold for arrogant, sarcastic, self-opinionated, worldly and stuck-up women, Its not nessacery for her to have all these traits one at a time is more than sufficent. I guess I am attracted to the happy, down to earth but intelligent women who desire to work with me not compete with me it is so tiresome to try to live celestial covenants such as concecration with such women. If Im sound angry so what I invested 10 years of love and loyalty into my wife and in return she spat in my face, riped my guts out and flushed um and gess what it sucked but perhaps your right Iam not entitled to things like kindness, respect and loyalty there only for women right. All i can say is thank god women such as above arn't the final judges in Israel but it would be hell to thing that descency entitles you to nothing. In fact such such an attitude is not scripturaly born out for those who inherit celestial glory do so as a result of obedience to the gospel and in return inherit their promised (entitled) reward of eternal increse though the new and everalsting covenant of marraige. If the sisters can pick that appart because they dont like it then they have some serious doctrinal issues.

I think you need to take some time and get over your ex. It is quite clear from this post that there is a lot of resentment toward your ex and you're applying that to women. The women in the church do the best that they can, same as you, but they are also not perfect and have faults. Slow down and do some healing first, then start fresh. Until you do, you will get nowhere. You seem like a good man who was horribly hurt. Heal thyself first. Don't go into a relationship with this excess baggage. It will do you and her no good.

Good luck.

[Elgama]

Thanks Ray that puts it much more nicely than i could and Cnuck

-Charley

[COUNTRYBEAR]

Elgama, there are a lot of vermin out there that pass themselfs of as men so you have every right to be selective. However, this is a discussion forum not a dating site were allowed to be opinionated and emotive thats what discussions are for. My point is I personally have seen a disturbing trend amongst the sisters toward materalism and antagonism toward men in general, and its not playful teasing, it is genuine femanist competativeness which is completely different from the desire for equality, justice and respect with which all sister should be treated ( I love you all- no really, thats why it hurts so much). Thus from my perspective in the 21st Centuary are women activly discrimiunating against men based on shallow and vein peramiters and therefore am I wasting my time seeking a new wife beacuse I am over30, not a RM (iam getting the hang of this lingo now) and dont look like Brad Pitt or have have his bank account. Now I realise that in heaven we all had different personalities and so it is true down here this isn't bad we all pair up based on common interests, likes and even physical apperance. It's no use being with some one your not compatible with no matter how rightous they are but it dose seem that women are selecting partners, if at all, based on more baser and worldly peramiters. Is descency a virtue that is last behind the trimmings of wealth beacuse at least around here the sisters definatly have 90210 complex, they wount look at you if earn less than £50k ($100K) and have the prestigious job that goes with it. There seems to be a generation demarkation with those of my age group and younger exhibiting these traits and those in the generation before us being more spiritual and you can really see the diference in the sisters.

[COUNTRYBEAR]

Ray A been there done that and still have the $50000 worth of debts she left me with, not trying to bore the ladies with war stories sorry.

[Ray A]

Ray A been there done that and still have the $50000 worth of debts she left me with, not trying to bore the ladies with war stories sorry.

Welcome to the club. Life gets better and better as time goes by. Promise.

[Elgama]

I only personally know of one sister that fits your description well 2 but they are from the same family, I also know of many patient beautiful sisters over 30 who are still single, because men prefer other things. I find the Sisters around me to be beautiful and strong and the children coming up in our generation to be a truly chosen generation. Our Young Women are amazing one is a talented artist, one a dancer/singer, one wrote her first novel at 12, and the other girl has just joined us and I don't know as well. They are amazing women sensible with their heads screwed firmly on, they want their husbands to be good men. And they deserve it. The Sisters in my Relief Society are amazing and beautiful and they do not deserve your bitterness aimed at them or to be called less spiritual than previous generations most of them could stand side by side, with Sarah, Sariah, Eve, Esther, the Mary;s, Salome, Emma, Eliza, Marjorie Hinckley and not feel inferior in any way.

You are hurting and your bitter thats understandable - being a child of twice divorce parents I know just how angry and bitter things can get, which is why for me personally divorced men were out when I was dating I knew how harmful baggage can be. But I also love Canuck and Checkerboy to bits they are beautiful men. Your posts are understandable but unbecoming of a priesthood holder when its main contents are spitting vitriol at the sisters. Don't expect me to just sit there and accept it when you wholesale insult the Sisters of my generation in the church and say we are less spiritual than your generation. Take the time to get over your hurt and anger that in itself makes a man more atttractive

-Charley

[WillowTheWhisp]

I know of a divorced sister who remarried. Her new husband isn't rich, far from it, in fact he brought nothing into the marriage but his love for her. He lost everything whereas she was the one with a house and car so she certainly couldn't have married him for his money. They looked beyond that in each other and seem to have the happiest of marriages.

[Canuck Mormon]

But I also love Canuck and Checkerboy to bits they are beautiful men.

-Charley

Back at ya!!!

You're wonderfull as well.

[Elgama]

Back at ya!!!

You're wonderfull as well.

if I was still single you two gentlemen have truly changed my opinions and prejudices of divorced men I feel very honoured to know you knowing how much you have enriched my life and helped me progress - does that sound soppy lol?

-Charley

[COUNTRYBEAR]

Elgama, it seems that I am in a less that desierable place, but don't mistake my words as a broardbrush of all sisters everywhere it would seem there is an unusuall collection of sisters with problems in my area. There seems to be better people in other places and yes I am far from being ready to date again but when I do I think I will search beyond my own area. Well guys and gals its been fun so long and thanks for all the eggs.

[Elgama]

sorry if what I said was harsh but I suspect if you were to reread these posts when you are ready you'll understand where mine came from, its not meant as eggs but it would be great if you can forgive, forget and move on there is no better revenge on someone who has hurt you than to put them behind you to the point it no longer bothers you.

-Charley

[COUNTRYBEAR]

Elgama, the problem is I still care for her beacuse she is the mother of my children and she is no better advantaged in her new situation thus I worry beacuse I care for her as a sister on the one hand but on the other well we wount go there. Yes you are right about putting it behind you. However its not about revenge I hope I never go that dark and reach a point where I have no good feelings toward her beacuse that says something daming about me which I dont like because its not who I really am. In person I am a nice guy really, honest. I do hold strong views on topics such as religion, especially defending the faith, and politics. Perhaps you dont always understand when I am makeng a joke to try and lighten the conversation so people don't feel that I am angry beacuse its not true, passionate is closer to the truth I have enjoyed our chat and found it very rewarding. The thanks is general and I withdraw the eggs

[Elgama]

:) now that post makes you sound more like a decent human being lol its lovely to see.

I don't think I meant the revenge to be quite as dark as that but for your childrens sake moving on is important, and for your own. You can still care for her as someone you love as a basic Christlike love but if you can't leave her behind you won't be ready to take on your next companion.

Why don't you try an LDS singles website? you may find a lady who is in a similar situation and understands you better. I met my husband online highly recommend it.

-Charley

[Canuck Mormon]

I met my wife online as well. It seems to be the new way to meet people. I hope that you stick around COUNTRYBEAR. It's a great site and you can learn a lot, as I have.

[michaela]

By the by next time you ask your priesthood holder for a blessing perhaps he should say no after all your not entitled to anything, although I was always taught that the pristhood was duty bound to bless the faithful but hey lets try it your way.

Countrybear,

You have made your pain and anger clear. I find the above quote quite disturbing. I'm not sure you understand the gift and the power you hold with the priesthood. You cannot compare withholding the priesthood with a woman choosing not to marry you.

I wasn't joking when I mentioned the FLDS in a previous post. You sound as though you believe you should be able to choose whomever you want to marry---and that your prospective wife has no right to say no---because you hold the priesthood. That truly is what women and young girls face in the FLDS. It's not the view of courtship, love, and marriage that I learned about in the church.

Believe me, your anger masks any decency, kindness, and compassion that you may possess---and that may make you an attractive prospect for love and marriage.

michaela

[Laureltree]

Finding a celestial mate....is very hard.. but I know through prayer I will.....Try singles activity.