Snow Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Sure it is a time of mourning with the loss of Ronald Regan... ...but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Snow@Jun 11 2004, 10:45 AM Sure it is a time of mourning with the loss of Ronald Regan......but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! :) Funny you say that, Snow. I frequent another board, mostly made up of people who are still active in the church for family and social reasons, but are non-believers.They actually have a thread going about that very topic!...About people knocking down the temple doors to do that. Of course it will have to be a year, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 11 2004, 09:00 AM Of course it will have to be a year, right? Why is that? To make sure he is good and dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 ...but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! What a creepy thing to say... or even think.Does Reagan even have a choice or will he be forced into mormonism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlestar Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Everyone has a choice, even in the next life he has a choice whether he wants to join the Church or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 If I were not a mormon and I got to the kingdom of God and everyone who was staying was a mormon, or wrather, had accepted the plan of salvation, and I had a chance to sign up.....well, thats a no brainer. Whats so creepy about finding the truth Tr2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Setheus@Jun 11 2004, 11:46 AM If I were not a mormon and I got to the kingdom of God and everyone who was staying was a mormon, or wrather, had accepted the plan of salvation, and I had a chance to sign up.....well, thats a no brainer. Whats so creepy about finding the truth Tr2? And if the opposite was true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70+Jun 11 2004, 11:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shanstress70 @ Jun 11 2004, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Snow@Jun 11 2004, 10:45 AM Sure it is a time of mourning with the loss of Ronald Regan......but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! :) Funny you say that, Snow. I frequent another board, mostly made up of people who are still active in the church for family and social reasons, but are non-believers.They actually have a thread going about that very topic!...About people knocking down the temple doors to do that. Of course it will have to be a year, right? Or - just maybe - Snow frequents that board as well, and that's where he got that idea?!Snow, are you a closet non-believer? C'mon, you can tell us.Just kidding people... sheesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Snow@Jun 11 2004, 08:45 AM Sure it is a time of mourning with the loss of Ronald Regan......but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! :) Well, (heh, don’t you just love the way he said that? :)), Well, at least we know he accepted a testimony that Jesus is the Christ. The only thing that some of us don’t know is whether or not he will accept, as Paul Harvey says, “the rest of the story”. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 11 2004, 09:25 AM ...but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! What a creepy thing to say... or even think.Does Reagan even have a choice or will he be forced into mormonism? Oh, very good question Trident!!! Yes, of course, as you already know, LDS doctrine is that all are forced to accept mormonism. Reagan will have no choice. LDS doctrine has never been that those who have vicarious ordinances performed on their behalf will then have the opportunity to accept or reject that ordinance. Of course you already knew this. Very good question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 C'mon Kev, If mormons really wanted to give everyone free choice, then why not let the "spirits" themselves request baptism? Supposedly that happened to Wilford Woodruff in the St. George temple. Remember? The Founding Fathers specifically requested it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Jason, I am intrested to read up on that. Where is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 If mormons really wanted to give everyone free choice, then why not let the "spirits" themselves request baptism?What makes you think they aren’t requesting it? Or do you mean that you think we should have a spiritual manifestation from each and every one of those people who wants to receive the ordinance of baptism? And if so, how do YOU think that spiritual manifestation should manifest itself? And who do YOU think should receive those spiritual manifestations? And what would YOU say if I told you that there have been lots and lots of people who have performed the ordinance of baptism for other people who have received a spiritual manifestion from deceased persons to let them know that they wanted to receive it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Ray@Jun 11 2004, 02:14 PM If mormons really wanted to give everyone free choice, then why not let the "spirits" themselves request baptism?What makes you think they aren’t requesting it? Or do you mean that you think we should have a spiritual manifestation from each and every one of those people who wants to receive the ordinance of baptism? And if so, how do YOU think that spiritual manifestation should manifest itself? And who do YOU think should receive those spiritual manifestations? And what would YOU say if I told you that there have been lots and lots of people who have performed the ordinance of baptism for other people who have received a spiritual manifestion from deceased persons to let them know that they wanted to receive it? I know I wouldn't want to receive a spiritual manifestation. That would scare the begeesus out of me... even if it WAS Grandpa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 "Jason, I am intrested to read up on that. Where is it?" Try either Robert's Comprehensive History or the JS History of the Church for starters. Maybe even a google search will do it. "What makes you think they aren’t requesting it?" Well, unless something's changed in the last couple of years, they aren't. Unless you believe that finding someones name in some old european parish church means that they were guiding you to do so. "Or do you mean that you think we should have a spiritual manifestation from each and every one of those people who wants to receive the ordinance of baptism?" Yes, I do think you should. If a live person wants to be baptized, they ask. The same standard should hold true after death. "And if so, how do YOU think that spiritual manifestation should manifest itself?" The same way it happened to Wilford Woodruff in 1877. "And who do YOU think should receive those spiritual manifestations?" Anyone with the nerve to talk to someone on the other side. "And what would YOU say if I told you that there have been lots and lots of people who have performed the ordinance of baptism for other people who have received a spiritual manifestion from deceased persons to let them know that they wanted to receive it?" Id ask if it was a warm fuzzy, or a one-on-one conversation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 And while we're on the subject, Ray, let me point something out. 99% of all temple work is purely mechanical. There's nothing spiritual about it. Now perhaps the person going through the temple is having a good time, but that's where it ends. You take your little paper with some dudes name, date of birth/death, and perhaps country on it. You go through the ordinances, try and rememer the guy's name once or twice during the ordeal, and you go home. You may comment for a day or two on his name, where he was from, etc. but that's about it. Do you remember the names of everyone you've done ordinances for? Can you even remember beyond the last visit or two? That shows you just how important this really is. Nobody really cares about the people their supposedly 'saving', unless it happens to be an actual relative. Not to mention the fact that the names are used over and over again in temples across the globe. If the LDS Church really cared about the individual, why don't you ask them why the then pointlessly repeat the ordinances over and over? Wilford Woodruff, on the other hand, had a very personal one-on-one experience with several gentlemen he claims were the Founding Fathers of the US. That's a whole lot different than we see today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 You failed to mention the people who do the actual family research, and that every person being helped is a member of someone’s family. That may not have meant much to you, but it does mean something to someone in that family, as evidenced by their willingness to do that research. And most often, those are the people who receive the spiritual manifestations helping them know that their relatives want to receive those ordinances. Also, ordinances are only done more than once for the same person when there is a chance that the information being submitted is for a person that isn’t already on the Church records. Try to realize that there are people all over the world doing this research, and that many of these people don't work with other family members to coordinate their efforts. Sometimes one person will only come up with a date and place of marriage for a family member only knowing their surname, while someone else only comes up with a date and place of birth with first initial of their given name and surname, not certain if it is the same person as somebody else on record. And btw, when wondering why people aren’t receiving spiritual manifestations to let them know that their relatives want those ordinances, do you fault the people who don’t receive those manifestations, the people who don’t give them, or the Person who doesn’t allow those spiritual manifestations to occur? After all, you don’t know whether or not our Lord granted a special exception to Wilford Woodruff, do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 As always, Ray, you are an oak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by Snow@Jun 11 2004, 08:45 AM Sure it is a time of mourning with the loss of Ronald Regan......but on the upside, shortly he will be Mormon! :) I doubt it, he got the Soviet Union to change their mind.PS: Unorthodox, I like your signature.M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unorthodox Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Jun 11 2004, 03:54 PM As always, Ray, you are an oak! … planted on good soil, trying to share my acorns of truth with whomever I can. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 11, 2004 Report Share Posted June 11, 2004 As a side note to this discussion. It is my opinion that most of the weeping on judgement day will not be from the poor souls that did not receive any of G-d's grace - but a large number of those that did receive his grace when they find out all who received G-ds grace. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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