sinful or not?

[deblldo]

hi,

just have one question that i hope you guys could clear up for me.

i have spoke to a few lds who have no problem i believing that our heavenly father and mother created us spirit children the way we create our children. i think i am right in saying this is not the official postion of the church but of some individuals.

I have no problem with this however when i was taught by missionaries we talked about how if the fall hadnt of happened there would have been no children ,as adam and eve would have stayed in a state of innocence. This kind of implies to me that making babies is somthing they did after they sinned if you catch my meaning.

so does this mean that our heavenly father is not in a state of innocence?

i hope this makes sense to you, and i know it has no bearing on my salvation and is just one of those things i will have to wait and find out, however i would like your views on this please.

thankyou in advance for your taking time to reply.

debs.

[Elgama]

while they were in the garden they didn't know Good from Evil and sex whilst beautiful can be seriously misused - I don't think they weren't capable of having babies just they were like small children and didn't know how until they ate from the tree of knowledge.

Without that knowledge they would not understand joy and happiness either which are good things my personal view is the fall gave them knowledge of both good and bad things

-Charley

[a-train]

They were physically incapable of producing babies. Sex does not ruin one's innocence. The begetting of spirit children to our Father in Heaven is a process completely unknown to us. I can say with some level of certainty however that the biological process employed must have some difference to that of the reproduction of mortals quickened by blood.

The root question is whether or not God engages in sexual activity as we know it or otherwise. Indeed, it is His business and our intrusion is extremely nosey to say the very least. But if He does enjoy or require such activity, it is simply pure, righteous, and franky, the right of the Almighty whose Authority is untouchable.

The relations between a man and his wife in this world were established and ordained by God from the beginning. To infer that necessary and enjoyable effects to that union are not innocent is to claim that God gave us an evil gift.

Satan wants us to believe that all sex is iniquity and none is at the same time. The reasoning is that if it all be iniquity, it matters not with whom we do it, or if it all be good, it further matters not who does it with whom. He wishes to redefine chasitity. Chastity is defined as the limitation of sexual conduct to the bonds of legal and lawfull marriage.

To Adam and Eve was given tremendous knowledge and understanding. I have no doubt that they were given a thorough comprehension of the physical, mental, and spiritual necessities involved in raising children. None of this knowledge, nor its application would negatively effect their innocence. It was only the transgression of the law of God that resulted in their fall.

What God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.

-a-train

[tiancum]

who says that Adam and Eve were not having sex before they fell? Their bodies were just not prepared yet to bring life into the world.

[WillowTheWhisp]

The idea that mortal men are 'conceived in sin' through the act of sexual intercourse is totally erroneous. Sex is not a sinful act when it is between man and wife.

[Flyonthewall]

hi,

just have one question that i hope you guys could clear up for me.

i have spoke to a few lds who have no problem i believing that our heavenly father and mother created us spirit children the way we create our children. i think i am right in saying this is not the official postion of the church but of some individuals.

I have no problem with this however when i was taught by missionaries we talked about how if the fall hadnt of happened there would have been no children ,as adam and eve would have stayed in a state of innocence. This kind of implies to me that making babies is somthing they did after they sinned if you catch my meaning.

so does this mean that our heavenly father is not in a state of innocence?

i hope this makes sense to you, and i know it has no bearing on my salvation and is just one of those things i will have to wait and find out, however i would like your views on this please.

thankyou in advance for your taking time to reply.

debs.

I would have to say: "we don't know". The way we make babies here on earht, pertains to the physical body. We know that spirits are intelligences and are eternal, so I don't think there will be a gestational period. Anything I can say is just speculation. I have even heard that it may be some sort of a priesthood ordinance. Again, all guesses.

[MorningStar]

Sex is not sinful within marriage. It is ordained of God. He commanded us to be fruitful and multiply. Why would He command us to have children in a way that is wrong?

[Adeipho]

hi,

so does this mean that our heavenly father is not in a state of innocence?

No Heavenly Father is not in a state of innocence. I believe you may be confusing the meaning of the word "innocent" to mean "without guilt". Of course God is without guilt because he his holy. But He is not innocent in the way that a new born child is, or the way that a seriously mentally challanged person is. Or the way that a loyal house hold dog is. A dog doesnt know right from wrong. It behaves and reacts on instinct and impulse just as a young child does. Innocently. In this sense of the word, God is not.

But he is holy and full of rightiousness.

Hope that clears things up for ya.

Adeipho

[deblldo]

hi,

yes thankyou for all your help. i think you are right Adeipho i was confusing the two thankyou for telling me that. I also agree 100 % with you morning star i do believe sex is a gift from God for those who are married i just had a little trouble with the way it was presented to me ie} that sex only came when they had sinned .

thanks for taking time to reply i really appreciate it.

debs.

[Hemidakota]

who says that Adam and Eve were not having sex before they fell? Their bodies were just not prepared yet to bring life into the world.

Now that is an interesting view.

[Hemidakota]

A dog doesnt know right from wrong. It behaves and reacts on instinct and impulse just as a young child does. Innocently. In this sense of the word, God is not.

But he is holy and full of rightiousness.

Hope that clears things up for ya.

Adeipho

How true is that statement. I came home one morning to find the dog, who knows that the kitchen is 'off limits', decided he was hungry and dived into the garbage container. What was left was the half-eaten left over containers on the floor next to the television. What was remarkable, he hid himself knowing the ‘sin’ he committed behind the coach. He only came out with his tail between his legs, when I called him and looked at him with a scowled face. His head drooped, he limped, knowing his guilt, over to his seating chair. Gotta admit, some animals have a conscious.

[Heavenguard]

I know someone's going to start getting annoyed with my "Well, technically..."s pretty soon

"No Means No" means even within marriage. A man can sexually abuse or even rape his wife if she is not consenting to the act between them. (Sometimes you just might not be 'in the mood' while the other one is.) Of course, this is outside what a marriage should be and sex was meant for, and thus is sinful, but I just wanted to point out that you can't just say "man and wife" and let it be all.