The Book Of Mormon

[kona0197]

I took some advice and prayed about the Book Of Mormon.

Somehow in my mind there is a quiet peace and a small voice.

I already knew it was true. At least that's the feeling I get.

I don't know why I try so hard to fight the Church's teachings.

[L_and_P21]

if you already know its true, why dont you move on to the next step. its easy to fight the churchs teachings.

btw i think we all are investigators for life

[kona0197]

I can't become a member. Short story: girlfriend is on Social Security. Should we marry we would lose a big chunk of our income.

[MaidservantX]

kona, you experience excites me and brings me joy. Thank you for sharing. I'm rooting for you! Keep going! :)

(and I agree the social security stuff is a hard one . . . who knows . . . for a God that can part the Red Sea . . .?)

[kona0197]

At this point we need a miracle. Social Security is the last of our worries.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

At this point we need a miracle. Social Security is the last of our worries.

I'm not really the most faithful person. You probably (I'm sure definitely) have a stronger testimony of the Gospel than me. I know a lot of technobabel about scripture and doctrine, but actually believing it is hard for me. But reading through your comments here I just have these thoughts ringing in my ears that if you trust you'll be rewarded. If you believe in the Book of Mormon and believe the church is true, are you willing to put that belief to the test?

God said it in Malachi talking about tithing, but I would think it applies to ALL of his commandments "Prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." Emphasis added - the Lord is TELLING us to test him by our obedience. When you're ready to do that is a choice you'll have to make.

I should SO practice what I preach.....

[Hemidakota]

I can't become a member. Short story: girlfriend is on Social Security. Should we marry we would lose a big chunk of our income.

Having a testimony is great if it becomes action and not talk. Remember, your true desire should to do what? [your can answer that one silently]

[Stampede]

I took some advice and prayed about the Book Of Mormon.

Somehow in my mind there is a quiet peace and a small voice.

I already knew it was true. At least that's the feeling I get.

I don't know why I try so hard to fight the Church's teachings.

Remember, Line upon Line, Precept on precept.

the gospel is progressive, you don;t wake up tomorrow and feel completely different about everything just because you know the Gospel is True.

Take everythign in small bites, when you notice yourself fighting against something, stop for a moment, take a step back, ponder it in your mind and pray about it and ask the Lord to let you know what is true and what is real.

just take it one step at a time.

[kona0197]

I should rephrase my first post. I believe the BOM to a point.

[rameumptom]

I took some advice and prayed about the Book Of Mormon.

Somehow in my mind there is a quiet peace and a small voice.

I already knew it was true. At least that's the feeling I get.

I don't know why I try so hard to fight the Church's teachings.

It is because there are two parts to us mortals: the spiritual and the physical. We are here to gain bodies, and through those bodies gain experience. We must decide whether our spirits will conquer our physical desires, or the physical desires conquer our spirit.

Often it causes a conflict within us, as these two battle it out. Drug addiction is a perfect example. The addict may wish to be clean and drug free, but the physical addiction is always there pulling at him.

The Spirit whispers its peace to us as we seek spiritual things. But the world would convince our minds that these things are not true, but are childish imaginations. Or as Korihor said, things caused by a frenzied mind.

The world and Satan shout to us to be free of spiritual things. God whispers to our hearts and minds the things of peace and eternal joy. We have to learn to shut out the shouting, so that we can train our physical bodies to enjoy God's wonders.

This evening, my wife and I went to see where her childhood farm was. She had described it on many occasions to me, and even drew me a sketch of what it was like. However, when we arrived, the front half of the farm was replaced by commercial buildings. The woods behind the farm are still there, but have bike trails zig-zagging throughout that have turned the peaceful woods into a loud playground, with trash scattered around. The old cemetary had to be fenced to keep kids from breaking anymore of the century-old headstones.

The kids that jumped their bikes through those woods and trashed the place, had lost the peaceful experience of nature and solitude; and had replaced it with something entertaining. But you could feel it was a lesser god they had come to worship.

Afterward, we went to another cemetery near our home, to sit in the quiet and talk. You could feel the peace of the place - an entirely different experience. The Spirit could be heard here. But to achieve it, we had to physically take ourselves out of that noisy world, and put ourselves in a place more natural with nature's God.

So it is with other spiritual things. We have to let go of the world and its noise, and let go completely. Otherwise, we will continually be tugged between the two worlds. Jesus said you cannot worship both God and Mammon. And we can't easily stand with one foot in Zion and the other in Babylon.

[skalenfehl]

I don't know why I try so hard to fight the Church's teachings.

Have you ever heard of Aesop's fable of the Fox and the Grapes?

It was a very hot and sunny afternoon. A fox, which had been hunting the whole day, was very thirsty.

"How I wish there was some water," the fox thought to himself.

Just then, he saw bunches of fat and juicy grapes hanging from a vine above his head. The grapes looked ripe and ready to burst with juice.

"Oh, my! Oh, my!" the fox said as his mouth began to water. "Sweet grape juice, quench my thirst!"

The fox stood on tiptoe and stretched as high as he could, but the grapes were out of his reach. Not about to give up, the fox walked back a short distance and took a running leap at the grapes. Again, he could not reach the grapes.

Still not ready to give up, the fox walked back further and took another running leap at the grapes. Again, he could not reach the grapes.

The fox jumped and leapt, again and again, but each time he could not reach the grapes. Until, at last, the fox was tired and thirstier than ever.

"What a fool I am!" said the fox furiously. "These grapes are sour and not fit for eating. Why would I want them anyway?"

With that, the fox walked away.

The point: Some people despise and belittle the things they cannot have.

Sometimes it's easier to push away something when the effort to obtain it is more than we wish to exert. Yes you'd have some big changes to make if you chose to follow this course through, but in the end the reward would be more than worth it.

One question, have you ever asked yourself if you love your girlfriend enough to be her eternal companion? Wouldn't it be worth the steps it took to see that happen? Food for thought.

[skippy740]

I can't become a member. Short story: girlfriend is on Social Security. Should we marry we would lose a big chunk of our income.

I'm going to completely take this OUT OF CONTEXT - but I hope to make a point.

Judas sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver.

Denying yourself the blessings of the truth for social security is similar (in my mind).

I'm NOT saying that you're denying Christ, but you are avoiding His Church.

[kona0197]

At this point religion is the last thing on both our minds. We are worried about temporal things in the here and now. Eternity can take can of itself.

Besides if I end up in the lowest Kingdom in the end I will be happy. Better than Hell.

[kona0197]

I'm going to completely take this OUT OF CONTEXT - but I hope to make a point.

Judas sold his soul for 30 pieces of silver.

Denying yourself the blessings of the truth for social security is similar (in my mind).

I'm NOT saying that you're denying Christ, but you are avoiding His Church.

Whatever man. Nice try.

[skalenfehl]

Don't give up, bud. I don't know how the mold thing is going right now and hopefully things are picking up for you. You still have friends here.

[kona0197]

Mold is the least of our worries as well. I'm hoping our Elders Quorum will help us move. We can not afford a Uhaul. We haven't found a place to move to so we have no choice but to borrow a tent and an airbed and tough it out at a campground for awhile.

[inthearmsofsleep]

That's rough, kona. Hopefully things will work out for you soon. There will always be things that we have a hard time believing/accepting as truth, and I've seen members go completely astray just because they don't take the time to humble themselves and REALLY search for answers. By this I mean fasting and praying with all their heart to know what's right. The peace and stillness you said you felt in your initial post is a taste of what the full gospel provides. Sometimes we need to fill the doubtful void in our minds with faith in order to get to the other side of whatever problems we're facing. You're entitled to find all the answers you seek if you do so with the right approach. Take care : )

[rameumptom]

At this point religion is the last thing on both our minds. We are worried about temporal things in the here and now. Eternity can take can of itself.

Besides if I end up in the lowest Kingdom in the end I will be happy. Better than Hell.

One of my sons, when he was 16 thought this way, also. He told me that he didn't have to try, because he would still make it to the Telestial Kingdom, which is nicer than anything here on earth (according to D&C 76). I agreed with him, but then reminded him that before anyone gains a kingdom, all their sins must be remitted. If we have a chance to have Christ cleanse us here, but postpone it in the interest of worldly things, then we will have to pay for those sins in the Spirit World/prison ourselves. Jesus warned us to repent now, so we would not suffer as intensely as he did (D&C 19). And Alma shared with his son the intensity of the pain he went through in his coma (many LDS scholars consider it a near death experience in the Spirit World), where he describes the pain as "exquisite."

The Lord expressly told us that we cannot serve God and Mammon (riches), and that we are to seek first the kingdom of God and then all things shall be added.

Your girlfriend can keep her social security money. You just have to move out until you are ready to marry. You have to decide for yourself what is of greatest importance: God or girl. And if the world is your choice, then good luck to you. But please be aware of the suffering you will bring upon yourself and possibly future generations because of your choices. This is something we all face.

My grandmother was born in a strong LDS family, but married outside the Church to a guy that ended up not being that great spiritually (he was a great dancer, which attracted her to him). It ended up tearing up the children, and even now affects the grandchildren and great-grandchildren because of that bad choice. My father's alcoholism, inactivity and abusive lifestyle were directly impacted by my grandmother's choice of spouses. And it has affected my siblings and their kids. I actually joined the Church at 16 through friends of mine that fellowshipped me. Otherwise, I would probably have been like him. Thankfully, in his 50s he changed around, but it was too late for many of my siblings to experience the joy of the gospel, and we all recall his violent temper to this day.

So, before you set the gospel aside for worldly pleasures, consider not only what you are doing to yourself, but to future posterity.

[Hemidakota]

I would like to say thanks, in sharing your story. It seems the more we dig deeper into dicators past, I do see patterns of father's abusing the children [Example Hitler, Stalin, Sadaam].

[kona0197]

Your girlfriend can keep her social security money. You just have to move out until you are ready to marry.

If we marry she loses the Social Security. No questions asked. They already told us. I can't move out as I do not make enough money on my own to support myself. I don't have the training for a better job nor the money to go to school. I can't get a loan to go to school as I already has an outstanding loan - I completed about half my college already - and I haven't paid that back.

[rameumptom]

"I the Lord am bound when ye do as I say, but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." D&C 82:10.

If we want God's blessings, we must keep the commandments associated with those blessings. Otherwise, God is not bound to assist us, and leaves us to our own struggle.

Tithing is a matter of faith and faithfulness, not how much riches a person has. I spent two years in Bolivia amongst people that were happy to make 1 dollar a day, lived in shacks smaller than my den, no electricity, no running water, etc. But they did fine. And they paid their tithes, did not work on Sundays, and got married.

So, your claims of poverty fall short for me, as you have no idea what poverty is. You also have not experienced the power of God to open up the windows of heaven and pour down blessings from above due to obedience (Malachi). I have seen and experienced both, and have paid my tithes even when I was out of work and we struggled to make it from month to month. And I was blessed for it in many awesome ways by God.

[kona0197]

Whatever. There are other churches out there. Not every Church goes by the D&C.

[WillowTheWhisp]

There are indeed other churches and I remember what an old Bishop of ours said to my Brother in Law when he grumbled about the tithing we pay as opposed to the small donation he paid to his church. "If he wants a cut-price church he will have to be content with cut-price blessings."

[kona0197]

I could deal with that. I haven't really seen any blessings since I started going to LDS services.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I could deal with that. I haven't really seen any blessings since I started going to LDS services.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, which forces me to ask: Why did you start this thread? Why did you express a testimony of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon only to deny it later?

There are plenty of ways out of your current situation. I'll show you just one of them - one that is plain and clear but which you can only follow through obedience to the Gospel plan.

First: Federal subsidized and unsubsidized stafford student loans are NOT credit based. You can be bankrupt with $100,000 in debt and still get a stafford loan. If you're a sophomore or higher in your college classes, you qualify for stafford loan ammounts that will completely cover all of your tuition at any state-funded college or university with money left over!

Second: Banks are very forgiving when it comes to student loans, especially with financially strapped individuals. Call the lender who granted your first student loans and inform them of your financial situation AND your desire to pay off your debt. They can, and most likely will, grant you leniency either by deferring payments (and thus not affecting your credit score) until you can afford to pay, or by forgiving part or all of the debt, or by some combination of the two.

Thrid: If you're under 23 you may not qualify for financial aid due to your parents' income levels. This, however, is a completely different story once you're married. When married you'll qualify for federal Pell grants as well as many state and university grants that will completely cover your tuition with money left over! Even enough to live on!

Fourth: If your girlfriend qualifies for social security, getting married will most likely have no affect on her qualifying outside of possibly changing her financial elidgibility. She will probably have to reapply, but would not be disqualified from receiving SS benefits. IF by "social security" you mean Women In Crisis (WIC) assistance or other non-social security assistance, that's a whole different ball game.

Fifth: Members of the church in good standing who pay their tithing and attend regularly are eligible to receive financial and other assistance through their Bishop. This is the whole purpose of Fast Offerings - to help those who need it. But you can't just go and ask for help and get a roll of 20s. You have to be a member and obedient to the commandments that you are capable of obeying, and the Bishop will then be able to write a check to pay some of your bills.

Sixth: I'll remind you of something I heard in General Conference a couple weeks ago. The speaking General Authority (you'll have to forgive me, I don't remember who it was) said that the Lord would forgive us when it was IMPOSSIBLE to obey, but he would NOT forgive us when it was only DIFFICULT to obey and we did not.

Therefore IF you obey the laws and commandments of the Gospel as set out in the scriptures - namely paying your tithing and getting married to the girl you're living with - you will be able to receive abundant blessings in the form of church assistance and financial assistance for college and even the reducing or eliminating of your debt.

The church is true, you know it. You just don't want to obey the commandments we have been given because it's hard. I'll close with something my Institute teacher said once:

"You can do hard things."