The Book Of Mormon

[skalenfehl]

I haven't really seen any blessings since I started going to LDS services.

Well at least our church is there for you in some way. You're obviously influenced somehow to accept its aid and our friendship. If those aren't blessings, then I don't know what is.

[kona0197]

It sounds like you've already made up your mind, which forces me to ask: Why did you start this thread? Why did you express a testimony of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon only to deny it later?

I'm not dening the Book Of Mormon. I just don't agree with some Church history, teachings and doctrines.

There are plenty of ways out of your current situation. I'll show you just one of them - one that is plain and clear but which you can only follow through obedience to the Gospel plan.

First: Federal subsidized and unsubsidized stafford student loans are NOT credit based. You can be bankrupt with $100,000 in debt and still get a stafford loan. If you're a sophomore or higher in your college classes, you qualify for stafford loan ammounts that will completely cover all of your tuition at any state-funded college or university with money left over!

I have 4 loans out there already. I haven't paid on them in 10 years. Either I've been without a job or unable to afford payments. However I will take this advice and look into the situation.

Second: Banks are very forgiving when it comes to student loans, especially with financially strapped individuals. Call the lender who granted your first student loans and inform them of your financial situation AND your desire to pay off your debt. They can, and most likely will, grant you leniency either by deferring payments (and thus not affecting your credit score) until you can afford to pay, or by forgiving part or all of the debt, or by some combination of the two.

I've already looked into this. They will not forgive any of my loans. I'm almost out of deferements anf forbarances. I'll try again I guess.

Thrid: If you're under 23 you may not qualify for financial aid due to your parents' income levels. This, however, is a completely different story once you're married. When married you'll qualify for federal Pell grants as well as many state and university grants that will completely cover your tuition with money left over! Even enough to live on!

I'm 32. :)

Fourth: If your girlfriend qualifies for social security, getting married will most likely have no affect on her qualifying outside of possibly changing her financial elidgibility. She will probably have to reapply, but would not be disqualified from receiving SS benefits. IF by "social security" you mean Women In Crisis (WIC) assistance or other non-social security assistance, that's a whole different ball game.

My girlfriend is on Social Security Disability under her Dad's income. Her is the mail we got from the Social Security people:

If you get married and you are receiving Social Security disability benefits based on your own earnings record, your benefits continue.

If you get married and you are receiving Social Security disability benefits based on a parent's earnings record, meaning you are a disabled adult child, your benefits will end. Your benefits will resume when the marriage ends.

So as you can see we are on the edge...

Fifth: Members of the church in good standing who pay their tithing and attend regularly are eligible to receive financial and other assistance through their Bishop. This is the whole purpose of Fast Offerings - to help those who need it. But you can't just go and ask for help and get a roll of 20s. You have to be a member and obedient to the commandments that you are capable of obeying, and the Bishop will then be able to write a check to pay some of your bills.

Good to know...

Sixth: I'll remind you of something I heard in General Conference a couple weeks ago. The speaking General Authority (you'll have to forgive me, I don't remember who it was) said that the Lord would forgive us when it was IMPOSSIBLE to obey, but he would NOT forgive us when it was only DIFFICULT to obey and we did not.

Therefore IF you obey the laws and commandments of the Gospel as set out in the scriptures - namely paying your tithing and getting married to the girl you're living with - you will be able to receive abundant blessings in the form of church assistance and financial assistance for college and even the reducing or eliminating of your debt.

The church is true, you know it. You just don't want to obey the commandments we have been given because it's hard. I'll close with something my Institute teacher said once:

"You can do hard things."

I thank you. That is something for me to think about. :)

[kona0197]

Skal - blessings are defined as miracles to me.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Skal - blessings are defined as miracles to me.

Sometimes a miracle is waking up in the morning to find a penny in your shoe (literally).

I worked a few contract jobs and barely made enough money to pay my bills. I chose (for the first time) to pay my tithing anyway. Then my dad calls and offers to pay me for helping with some chores around his "mini ranch". A week later a contracting company I'd had my resume at for more than 3 years calls me up and offers me a job.

Miracle or blessing?

A brand new father holds his first baby child in his arms moments after its birth and marvels at the life in his hands.

Miracle or blessing?

You're driving down the highway and your car dies and won't start again. You're cell phone is dead and you can't start your car. You're sitting there for 20 minutes wondering what to do and finally say a prayer "God, help me" and 5 minutes later someone pulls over and gives you a ride to a gas station to call for assistance.

Miracle or blessing?

The answer is "Both." Miracles happen every day. What makes it a miracle is not how big it is, but how we perceive it. If you're waiting for choirs of angels, don't hold your breath. But most - I may even say nearly all - of God's miracles are small, simple, and quietly awe inspiring.

I wish you luck :)

[kona0197]

Thanks Puff. Be that as it may I still think at this point the World owes me a favor.

[WillowTheWhisp]

My first husband died when my children were 10 and 7 years old. The blessing there was that we were sealed for eternity and our children born in the covenant. Sometimes it's hard to see the blessings but they do exist.

Sometimes we need to take a leap of faith too and risk losing something small in order to gain something better. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very good at that. I like being in my comfort zone. When my husband died I was jolted out of it and didn't have any alternative.

I don't understand the American Social Security system so may I ask a question? Do you have to have paid into the system before you can get any assistance? Over here in the UK people can claim benefits like that without ever having paid into the system. I know that you have said previously that you do not want to change your job as you are happy working there but it doesn't provide enough money for you both to live on. Is there no safeguard in your country for a working family which doesn't have enough income to live on? Over here we have a tax credit which if the wife is unable to work and the husband is only on a low wage they get a top-up benefit in the form of a tax refund and also if they are still on a very low income that can be supplemented. Is there no system like that in the US?

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Thanks Puff. Be that as it may I still think at this point the World owes me a favor.

Doctrine and Covenants 82

"I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise."

I'd rather God owe me a favor :)

[Latter Days Guy]

Thanks Puff. Be that as it may I still think at this point the World owes me a favor.

The world doesn't owe you anything mate. You said that your job doesn't pay you enough to support both you and your girlfriend, but you don't want to leave it because you like it. What is more important, finding a job that meets the needs of supporting both you and your girlfriend or staying in a low paid job that doesn't? I believe you need to get your priorities sorted out and go and find a better paid job that will support the both of you. If you did have a better paid job then you wouldn't need to rely on social security, so then you could get married, but from what I have read it would seem that you are more than comfortable to stay in your low paid job and get by on your girlfriends benefits. I don't know what it's like in the USA but here in the UK if your living with someone on benefits and do so for more than 6 months then you are classed as common law man and wife. Then your income is taken into account when her benefits are accessed.

[kona0197]

My job would pay enough to support us both if I got more hours. That's all there is too it. This job is the highest I have ever been paid. This is not a low pay job. At least not for me.

There is no common law marriage law here in Oregon.

I'll get things worked out. Till then I would appreciate it if people would not offer suggestions on how they think I should be running my life. Odds are I've already thought about what you are about to suggest.

Suffice it to say that if my girlfriend gets her benefits under her own income and name then we can get married so we are pursuing that course of action. It will take time.

[lostnfound]

where in the bible does it say to pray over the book of mormon to see if it is true?

The bible say the heart is desperiately wicked and decietful and you can't trust it..

It also tells to test the spirits..When a spirit comes to a man and claims it is God's word we are to align it with God's word...this would include joseph smith, the three little girls in the catholic church, buddist etc..or anyone who claims to have a devine message from above. He has already given us all we need preserved throughout history his writings..

a great resource for anybody searching..."The evidence demands a verdict" josh mcdowell but also

Ray vanderlan series..on the history of israel and the writings of jesus.

[Hemidakota]

Yes and how many tribes of Jacob [israel] are there? Do you not think that God dealt with the other tribes beside Judah?

[lostnfound]

REad trough genesis to learn about tribes of jacob..facinating history. I would tell you and I am sure others might..but it is such a great read I don't want to spoil it for you..:)

[Hemidakota]

I have, twice a year. My own requirement and placed upon my own children to have an understanding of whom receives what.

In the end, each tribe will have its own collection of books that pertains to that tribe and dealinigs with Deity. Then there other lost sheep that will bring forth their works to add to the ever growing testimony of Christ. So, do not limited yourself and think that the Hebrews or Tribe of Judah is the only tribe on this earth have the privilidge of the Jesus Christ as their Savior or the written word.

[Vanhin]

where in the bible does it say to pray over the book of mormon to see if it is true?

Well does the Epistle of James count?

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5)

By the power of the Holy Ghost we may know the truth:

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)

It also tells to test the spirits..When a spirit comes to a man and claims it is God's word we are to align it with God's word...this would include joseph smith, the three little girls in the catholic church, buddist etc..or anyone who claims to have a devine message from above. He has already given us all we need preserved throughout history his writings..

Does that include Moses? What word was Moses' revelations compared to? Or how about the early Saints during New Testament times? The Christian Bible wasn't bound into a single volume until many years after the Apostles were gone.

God has always spoken through his oracles, the prophets (Amos 3:7). A prophet is greater than scripture. If every Bible in the world was burned to ashes, God can restore it again through a living prophet. We have the scriptures because of prophets, and God continues to call prophets and reveal his will to them. Joseph Smith was one of them, and Thomas S. Monson is one also.

It takes faith to ask God for wisdom, but that's really what this boils down to.

Regards,

Vanhin

[lilered]

Kona0197-

The more I read your threads, the conclusion I am coming to is that you are not happy in your present situation. If I am correct, then

Have you ever put the God to the test? By that I mean - Obey and Keep his commandments and in so doing, he promises us we will prosper and have joy in our life. This of course, requires we be obediant, have faith, and trust God that he will do what he says.

I can testify to you that he will bless you as he continually promises in the scriptures.

Matt: 6 33 aBut bseek ye first the ckingdom of God, and his drighteousness; and all these ethings shall be fadded unto you.

Mosiah 2 22 And behold, all that he arequires of you is to bkeep his commandments; and he has cpromised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth dvary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do ekeep his fcommandments he doth bless you and prosper you.

[kona0197]

Kona0197-

The more I read your threads, the conclusion I am coming to is that you are not happy in your present situation.

I'm happy to have a job and even though this is the most I have ever been paid in my life I still feel I have sold myself short. I've left so many things like college unfinished in my life. I still have yet to have kids. So many things I haven't done that I should have done.

Have you ever put the God to the test? By that I mean - Obey and Keep his commandments and in so doing, he promises us we will prosper and have joy in our life. This of course, requires we be obediant, have faith, and trust God that he will do what he says.

I can testify to you that he will bless you as he continually promises in the scriptures.

I've always thought - lately - that God is mad at me since I never seem to catch a break. I'm always angry or depressed. What's the point of keeping the commandments if I am not a member?

The thing is I know the Gospel is true. I have prayed about that. I want so bad to be a member that this whole situation angers me. I'm scarred to let go of the Social Security she gets. Yet I think we might have to do just that.

So I end up trying to prove the Church false and come here angering people because I can't become a member to easy way.

[lostnfound]

WE are to ask for wisdom..but How does God give us wisdom?

Gods word is a good starting place..second..The holy spirit was given to us to guide and direct our lives...but as far as determing if a Man was given a message from God as that is what happened to Joseph smith we are told to test the spirit..align what they say up to God's word.

LDS is not the first reglion to acclaim that have been given a special revelvation from God and added to scriptures. There is some of that in Catholism as well..and other sects of reaglions out there. If I pray to God and say Lord is Buddisism from you? Then I open my eyes and say to myself well..it feels good to me so it must be of God..That does not make it "True". Lord, should I pray to dead people? then I for whatever reason I don't get a answer from God on that by some audiable voice and then I come the conclusion that it is true does that make it true???

Come on you guys...What determines wisdom from God? How are we to determine if it is from God or not?

[lostnfound]

Does that include Moses? What word was Moses' revelations compared to? Or how about the early Saints during New Testament times? The Christian Bible wasn't bound into a single volume until many years after the Apostles were gone.

God has always spoken through his oracles, the prophets (Amos 3:7). A prophet is greater than scripture. If every Bible in the world was burned to ashes, God can restore it again through a living prophet. We have the scriptures because of prophets, and God continues to call prophets and reveal his will to them. Joseph Smith was one of them, and Thomas S. Monson is one also.

It takes faith to ask God for wisdom, but that's really what this boils down to.

Regards,

Vanhin

Gods word was kept by His followers.. Have you ever looked into the scrolls found of the NT and the people that hid them away in caves? The oracles of God are also his word. Yes he spoke through prophets but even before them God spoke directly to adam and eve, diretly to abraham, directly to moses..Then in the new testamont we don't see prophets of israel..we see the apostles and there writings..but they were to record as God directed them to. And yes you are correct we are to ask God for wisdom..

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

WE are to ask for wisdom..but How does God give us wisdom?

...............

Come on you guys...What determines wisdom from God? How are we to determine if it is from God or not?

John 7

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

To be perfectly honest I think Kona has all the answers he needs from this forum, and the rest of us are just antagonizing him and each other by continuing this thread. There comes a point when you can't give any more advice and you have to let other people make their own decisions.

[ztodd]

I've always thought - lately - that God is mad at me since I never seem to catch a break. I'm always angry or depressed. What's the point of keeping the commandments if I am not a member?

Hi Kona! Don't give up- I promise God loves you more than you know and wants you to be happy. I think if you give it your best shot at keeping the commandments you'll be pleasantly surprised that your Heavenly Father is there ready to bless you with amazing peace and happiness.

The thing is I know the Gospel is true. I have prayed about that.

That's wonderful! Now it's time to reap the blessings the gospel can bring you... I know you can do it.

I want so bad to be a member that this whole situation angers me. I'm scarred to let go of the Social Security she gets. Yet I think we might have to do just that.

So I end up trying to prove the Church false and come here angering people because I can't become a member to easy way.

I know it's hard- I really do. I have a really hard time sometimes stepping out of my comfort zone to do the things I need to do and reach my full potential. But the Lord is amazingly merciful if you just try your best and rely on Him to help you the rest of the way.

.

[lilered]

This I can promise you. God loves you and wants you to be happy and prosper. He wants to bless you, and he will, if you but will surrender yourself by obeying his commandments, praying with a contrite spirit, and seeking his guidance. Once you do that, have faith and trust in him. Let me share a recent witness of this happening.

I know of a young mom who was in a very difficult marriage situation. Her husband was very abusive to her and their son. This relationship can be deteriating for several years. Approx. 1 year ago, she decided to move out and start over. Together her and her husband owned a farm where she raised purebred dogs for extra money. When she decided to leave, she wanted to leave with an amiable relationship with her husband. She just wanted out with her son. The son was a teenager and a very good boy, great athlete, and had never been in trouble. Between the husband and the wife, she agreed to pay for the divorce, if he would agree to absorb all debt and continue to let her raise dogs on the farm as a supplemental living. They agreed so she obtained a very simple divorce. In the decree, only the debt was mentioned alongwith him obtaining full ownership of the farm.

She left, obtained another residence and all was well for a full 1 year.. This is important as the divorce is final and cannot be undone or disputed after 1 year. At the same time this was going on, she left her present employer for a better paying position and started working at the new place. Her son playing Highschool football.

Suddenly, her world fell apart. The next day after the 1 year limit, her ex husband notified her to get all of her dogs etc. off the farm or he would kill them. The same day, the CEO of the company she was working for as a brand new employee walked in and fired the entire office and mgmt staff and because she had only worked a few days, was released. In addition, her son received a kindney injury while playing a HighSchool Football game.

She tried to reason with her exhusband, by visiting him at the farm, however, he had posted a "No Trespassing Sign" at the entrance and had closed the gate. She entered on the farm to talk to him and he called the Sherriff on her and filed a charge of 1st degree trespassing which is a felony offense in the State she lives.

Bottom Line for the story is - she felt like ending it all, that she couldn't go on. She had never been in any trouble before, always did what she was supposed to do, but yet all of this happened to her all at once.

She did however, pray mightly and often and never lost her faith. After 4 months of "hell on earth" - her words not mine, things finally started to turn around for her. Her sons kidney healed but he can never play football again ( he instead continues in sports as a baseball catcher). She obtained a better job, and with the help of a good lawyer was able to get all charges dropped against her and at the same time get out of a failing marriage. I would be less than honest if I didn't also add that she obtained great support from her family during her ordeal, but was continually advised to keep the faith. Today, she is a stronger person, full of hope, happy, and doing great.

[kona0197]

By the way everyone. I thought about it last night and I can now see why the Lord withheld the priesthood from the blacks.

I was wrong. I retract my previous views that it was done for racist reasons. I was wrong.

[Palerider]

By the way everyone. I thought about it last night and I can now see why the Lord withheld the priesthood from the blacks.

I was wrong. I retract my previous views that it was done for racist reasons. I was wrong.

I don't kow if you spent any time on blacklds.org....but that is a very good web site and one to remember for future reference.:)

[kona0197]

I did. In fact I have it bookmarked.

[sjdean]

As a stupid thought, you obviously believe in the LDS faith, right Kona? How long have you known about it, or been considering joining?

Is there any requirement to rush things at the moment? Is it not possible to be happy in your faith while you attempt to make the changes necessary in your life? It doesn't have to be overnight, or six months, could take a year, or longer, but in that time circumstances change.