How easy is it ????

[Hemidakota]

If I didn't sin, I would not be here. Same as you! We are called to be perfected to keep all the commandments of GOD. How can we be perfect? Abraham was told this in his old age by the Savior. We are perfected through Christ and through Temple. If you had the opportunity to go to the temple, you will understand the covenants and promise for those who will receive in the Celestial glory. You will understand the battle between the natural man[woman] versus the Spiritual man[woman], on how we can master this quandary and how easy it is for us to achieve this model of perfection in Christ as Abraham did. Now, Abraham learned to repent quickly and remained in the state humbleness before his Lord. This is where most people fall short.

Yes, there are three glories as Paul or Joseph described, as there are other earths that have same stage, same actors, and the same FATHER. However, there are many kingdoms below us, as there are many kingdoms above us. Why is that? Even being in FATHER's presence, there are those resurrected sons and daughters of our GOD, who will receive the highest level of exaltation and will receive a white stone as John spoke about; not forgetting Joseph Smith who saw the same; upon which, in seeing the kingdoms above HIM. If we are in HIS presence, then why would it be necessary to receive such? The pure knowledge of what was, what is, what shall be, is plain for the few but hard for the masses. This brings sorrow to my soul as we try to press others to the Tree of Life; tasting the joyous fruit of Life.

[Hemidakota]

i think it is necessary to have one.

Good to hear that...this is why when preaching to such audience, you are really preaching to the choir but not the Saint.

The stand alone with their GOD and Savior, as testament of Him and His work, His Gospel, and supporting arm for those who have not.

[lostnfound]

Can i ask you guys a question in regards to Hizwifes questions???

Why are you guys in general defense? Jenamarie sorta talked about it. But if some unbeliever asks me about my faith I am happy to give him an answer. In fact I have been questioned on my faith my whole life and It never gets exhausting for me. I think it never bothers me because i know I have assurance and the person asking me usually does not have the same assurance. If a faith say's "We are the True Church" then they are aquired to be able to rationaly explain or even prove why they believe that in my opinion. The bible says to always have an explanation for the faith that you believe.

[lostnfound]

Good to hear that...this is why when preaching to such audience, you are really preaching to the choir but not the Saint.

The stand alone with their GOD and Savior, as testament of Him and His work, His Gospel, and supporting arm for those who have not.

yep, the only thing is..I know our testomony is not the same one.

[HizWife625]

lostnfound...... I stand in agreement that it is very importantt to have a testimony....

I remember the exact color of clothes I was waering, the time of day, who was there with me and where I was on the day I met the Lord face to face, heart to heart.... I was only 8 years old, but I knew I had to have Him as Lord of my life....I couldn't live without Him.... During some of my teenage years, I drifted..... After my firstborn, I was miserable knowing in my heart who I was missing.... Jesus Christ was not in the center of my life at that time....I can remember driving by, no matter where I needed, this one small church...I visited that church and fell to my knees as I missed my Savior so much...He never left me......

Just as God pursued Eve in the garden after she gave into sin from Satan, He quitely called at her name, so did He the same with me..... He pursued me until I could no longer resist His love, His grace, His power, His strength..... He was, and still is, faithful to His word that my life was His eternally.....He loves me so much and He would never let me go....Says so in 2 Timothy.

So, yes I have my personal testimony and there is so much more to my walk with Christ now....It is beautiful and I protect it at all costs.

[Hemidakota]

There are many levels of testimony within us all, as there is but one testimony of Him as a witness. A few in this mortality will find that special level of testimony and know what I am referring too. They have seen the same as Joseph Smith, Paul, Enoch, Moses, Abraham [others in which I failed to mention], and are witnesses to the world.

The least testimony to acquire is that of faith. Believing but not seeing. Feeling but not hearing. It needs to be nurtured overtime and will eventually through obedience and surrendering ones 'will' to the FATHER and the Savior, to above highest level one can achieve here.

[Hemidakota]

lostnfound...... I stand in agreement that it is very importantt to have a testimony....

I remember the exact color of clothes I was waering, the time of day, who was there with me and where I was on the day I met the Lord face to face, heart to heart.... I was only 8 years old, but I knew I had to have Him as Lord of my life....I couldn't live without Him.... During some of my teenage years, I drifted..... After my firstborn, I was miserable knowing in my heart who I was missing.... Jesus Christ was not in the center of my life at that time....I can remember driving by, no matter where I needed, this one small church...I visited that church and fell to my knees as I missed my Savior so much...He never left me......

Just as God pursued Eve in the garden after she gave into sin from Satan, He quitely called at her name, so did He the same with me..... He pursued me until I could no longer resist His love, His grace, His power, His strength..... He was, and still is, faithful to His word that my life was His eternally.....He loves me so much and He would never let me go....Says so in 2 Timothy.

So, yes I have my personal testimony and there is so much more to my walk with Christ now....It is beautiful and I protect it at all costs.

Agreed! A testimony needs daily attention and correction. It does not reside in a static state but dynamic state as it swings in both direction.

[HizWife625]

.................................this is why when preaching to such audience, you are really preaching to the choir but not the Saint.

Hemi: I feel you have passed undo judgement on me ..... I don't do well in the chori, they would kick me out for loud "unjoyfful" screaching.....

But, I am a Saint..... I am a sinner saved by grace and grace alone. I am promised that I will be God on the day He returns for me....I will walk right through the gate with my hands held high praising the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords......No doubt on my future.......I have direct access to God's throne.

Hemi: Do you sin?

[HizWife625]

The least testimony to acquire is that of faith. Believing but not seeing. Feeling but not hearing. It needs to be nurtured overtime and will eventually through obedience and surrendering ones 'will' to the FATHER and the Savior, to above highest level one can achieve here.

But that statemetn in itself is placing conditions upon God grace that was freely given....

I bare witness of this world everyday and I also bare witness of God's glory....I trust what He has spoken and expect no less......His words are true and complete.

[lostnfound]

.................................this is why when preaching to such audience, you are really preaching to the choir but not the Saint.

Hemi: I feel you have passed undo judgement on me ..... I don't do well in the chori, they would kick me out for loud "unjoyfful" screaching.....

But, I am a Saint..... I am a sinner saved by grace and grace alone. I am promised that I will be God on the day He returns for me....I will walk right through the gate with my hands held high praising the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords......No doubt on my future.......I have direct access to God's throne.

Hemi: Do you sin?

I am glad you are asking the questions on sin..Lots of reglions struggle on this concept that they are indeed sinners and need a savior. That their works are filthy rags to the Lord and that they can do nothing to earn salvation..but this also starts with how they view sin. This is why my name is Lostnfound..Once I was Lost..not saved and then I was found by the grace of Jesus.

[Hemidakota]

There is no judgment require here since we are not of same calling or chosen of Him. I no this for a fact. If you don't believe then ask the Savior.

A Saint is member of the only church which belongs to Him. There is no other church that is called by Him, if so; it would be a mass of confusion. Now, do you belong to that very organization? No.

Now, I see you haven't been paying attention, with regards to your last statement.

Dear sister, I am amazed and how you do sometimes to repeat the same question, Do you really understand what was before this life? Do you even comprehend the Atonement of Christ - literally? Do you even understand what is waiting for us? Have you seen it? Have you seen the Savior or GOD HIMSELF? Why not?

[Hemidakota]

The least testimony to acquire is that of faith. Believing but not seeing. Feeling but not hearing. It needs to be nurtured overtime and will eventually through obedience and surrendering ones 'will' to the FATHER and the Savior, to above highest level one can achieve here.

But that statemetn in itself is placing conditions upon God grace that was freely given....

I bare witness of this world everyday and I also bare witness of God's glory....I trust what He has spoken and expect no less......His words are true and complete.

Again, as I stated earlier, you do not have a full undertstanding of the elements of a testimony and it is not primarily built around grace alone since its given to all, including a murderer.

[Hemidakota]

I am glad you are asking the questions on sin..Lots of reglions struggle on this concept that they are indeed sinners and need a savior. That their works are filthy rags to the Lord and that they can do nothing to earn salvation..but this also starts with how they view sin. This is why my name is Lostnfound..Once I was Lost..not saved and then I was found by the grace of Jesus.

I think if anyone knows the subject well, it is the Saints.

[lostnfound]

There is no jusdgment require here since we are not of same calling or choosen of Him. I no this for a fact. If you don't believe then ask the Savior.

A Saint is member of the only church which belongs to Him. There is no other church that is called not by Him, if so, it would be a mass of confusion. Now, do you belong to that very organization? No.

Now, I see you haven't been paying attention, with regards to your last statement.

Dear sister, I am amazed and how you do sometimes to repeat the same quesition, Do you rerally understand what was before this life? Do you even comprehend the Atonement of Christ - literially? Do you even understand what is awaiting for us? Have you seen it? Have you seen the Savior or GOD HIMSELF? Why not?

Hemi..who is your post for..I am confused reading all the posts..:) but you said something here that caught my attention...a saint is a member of the only church which belongs to Him..I belong to that church.

[Hemidakota]

Brother Dorsey......

I've already guaranteed to be part of God's kingdom...I have peace with that.

But not in GOD's presence. So which glory again?

[lostnfound]

But not in GOD's presence. So which glory again?

Yes in God's presence..

[Hemidakota]

Hemi..who is your post for..I am confused reading all the posts..:) but you said something here that caught my attention...a saint is a member of the only church which belongs to Him..I belong to that church.

Correct. I was reading your quote by Hizwife.

The early church [The Church of Jesus Christ of the Saints as known], the membership were called Saints.

[Brother Dorsey]

I am here to understand why there is so much of a controversy between Christians vs Mormons......

Therein lies the problem with your kind....there is NO controversy between Christians and Mormons as Mormons ARE Christians to the full extent. Meaning: We have what you have in the Bible AND we have further revelation given by the Lord along with restored truths missing from the Bible AND we have additional scripture testifying of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon which along with modern revelation through a living Prophet of God we have a clarification of Biblical scripture. So, what we have is the FULLNESS of Christs Gospel. And that is something you reject...and that is sad.

As soon as you realize that "Mormons" are Christians the better you will be able to understand us "Mormons"!

Peace

[lostnfound]

lostnfound...... I stand in agreement that it is very importantt to have a testimony....

I remember the exact color of clothes I was waering, the time of day, who was there with me and where I was on the day I met the Lord face to face, heart to heart.... I was only 8 years old, but I knew I had to have Him as Lord of my life....I couldn't live without Him.... During some of my teenage years, I drifted..... After my firstborn, I was miserable knowing in my heart who I was missing.... Jesus Christ was not in the center of my life at that time....I can remember driving by, no matter where I needed, this one small church...I visited that church and fell to my knees as I missed my Savior so much...He never left me......

Just as God pursued Eve in the garden after she gave into sin from Satan, He quitely called at her name, so did He the same with me..... He pursued me until I could no longer resist His love, His grace, His power, His strength..... He was, and still is, faithful to His word that my life was His eternally.....He loves me so much and He would never let me go....Says so in 2 Timothy.

So, yes I have my personal testimony and there is so much more to my walk with Christ now....It is beautiful and I protect it at all costs.

Yep, Justified by Faith and continuing the walk of santification. )

[Hemidakota]

Yes in God's presence..

Let me see, are baptized by the appropriate authority. No! Have you been set apart and received the Holy Ghost as a First Comforter and a gift? No! Have you received the appropriate Priesthood [minimum as a Elder to reach the highest level], a requirement for all males on this earth? No! Have you received your temple covenants and washing and anointing? No! Have you been sealed for time and eternality? No! Is there anything I have missed?

All of which is a minimal requirement to be in GOD's presence. The rest will be in the lower glory as Paul described to the Church of Corin.

[lostnfound]

Therein lies the problem with your kind....there is NO controversy between Christians and Mormons as Mormons ARE Christians to the full extent. Meaning: We have what you have in the Bible AND we have further revelation given by the Lord along with restored truths missing from the Bible AND we have additional scripture testifying of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon which along with modern revelation through a living Prophet of God we have a clarification of Biblical scripture. So, what we have is the FULLNESS of Christs Gospel. And that is something you reject...and that is sad.

As soon as you realize that "Mormons" are Christians the better you will be able to understand us "Mormons"!

Peace

What is that statement "your kind" That is so defensive! From my study on the matter.There is no more revelation..The bible stands alone on full athurity and anything added to it or claims to be added to it is not of God.. i know lds disagrees. BUT THIS IS MY DISCLAIMER BECAUSE I AM ON A LDS THREAD..i have no intention to attack you personally. I like to understand how people drive to their conclusions in ALL FAITHS NOT JUST YOURS. It helps me understand people better, it will help us in ministry and it causes me to seek Him with all understanding!

[Hemidakota]

Yep, Justified by Faith and continuing the walk of santification. )

Yes and no. You never receive sanctification unless you have met the requirements. You will be on the outside looking in; or the one who holds the empty olive oil lamp.

Now, these words maybe meaningless but I am concern over the welfare for those who did have that opportunity and empty their lamps out. As I stated before in another thread, why should an Eagle who soars peck in the dirt with the Chickens?

This is what you are offering to someone who knows the Gospel of Christ. Some food for thought!

[lostnfound]

Let me see, are baptized by the appropriate authority. No! Have you been set apart and received the Holy Ghost as a First Comforter and a gift? No! Have you received the appropriate Priesthood [minimum as a Elder to reach the highest level], a requirement for all males on this earth? No! Have you received your temple covenants and washing and anointing? No! Have you been sealed for time and eternality? No! Is there anything I have missed?

All of which is a minimal requirement to be in GOD's presence. The rest will be in the lower glory as Paul described to the Church of Corin.

I recieved the Holy Spirity the day I put my faith in Jesus Christ..so Yes! I was baptized by the proper authority shortly after by full immersion..so yes! The rest of your claims are lds teaching..not the bible I read or serve..but you can have that opinion.:)

[HizWife625]

in Acts 20:17-38, the Apostle Paul has an opportunity to talk to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus one last time face to face. In that passage, he tells them that false teachers will not only come among them but will come FROM them (vv. 29-30).

Paul does NOT set forth the teaching that they were to follow the "first" organized church as a safeguard for the truth. Rather, he commits them to the safekeeping of "God and to the word of His grace" (v. 32). Thus, truth could be determined by depending upon God and "the word of His grace" (i.e., Scripture, see John 10:35).

This dependence upon the Word of God, rather than following certain individual "founders" is seen again in Galatians 1:8-9, in which Paul states, "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

Thus, the basis for determining truth from error is not based upon even WHO it is that is teaching it, “we or an angel from heaven,” but whether it is the same gospel that they had already received – and this gospel is recorded in Scripture

The only infallible standard that Scripture says that we have is the Bible (Isaiah 8:20; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 5:18; John 10:35; Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 2:25; Galatians 1:6-9). Tradition is a part of every church, and that tradition must be compared to God's Word, lest it go against what is true (Mark 7:1-13). It is true that the cults and sometimes orthodox churches twist the interpretation of Scripture to support their practices; nonetheless, Scripture, when taken in context and faithfully studied, is able to guide one to the truth.

The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.” We can know this because it is described, in great detail, in Scripture. The church, as recorded in the New Testament, is God’s pattern and foundation for His church. On this basis, let’s examine the Roman Catholic claim that it is the “first church.” Nowhere in the New Testament will you find the “one true church” doing any of the following: praying to Mary, praying to the saints, venerating Mary, submitting to a pope, having a select priesthood, baptizing an infant, observing the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sacraments, or passing on apostolic authority to successors of the apostles. All of these are core elements of the Roman Catholic faith. If most of the core elements of the Roman Catholic Church were not practiced by the New Testament Church (the first church and one true church), how then can the Roman Catholic Church be the first church? A study of the New Testament will clearly reveal that the Roman Catholic Church is not the same church as the church that is described in the New Testament.

The New Testament records the history of the church from approximately A.D. 30 to approximately A.D. 90. In the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries, history records several Roman Catholic doctrines and practices among early Christians. Is it not logical that the earliest Christians would be more likely to understand what the Apostles truly meant? Yes, it is logical, but there is one problem. Christians in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries were not the earliest Christians. Again, the New Testament records the doctrine and practice of the earliest Christians…and, the New Testament does not teach Roman Catholicism. What is the explanation for why the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century church began to exhibit signs of Roman Catholicism?

The answer is simple – the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th century (and following) church did not have the complete New Testament. Churches had portions of the New Testament, but the New Testament (and the full Bible) were not commonly available until after the invention of the printing press in A.D. 1440. The early church did its best in passing on the teachings of the apostles through oral tradition, and through extremely limited availability to the Word in written form. At the same time, it is easy to see how false doctrine could creep into a church that only had access to the Book of Galatians, for example. It is very interesting to note that the Protestant Reformation followed very closely after the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible into the common languages of the people. Once people began to study the Bible for themselves, it became very clear how far the Roman Catholic Church had departed from the church that is described in the New Testament.

Scripture never mentions using "which church came first" as the basis for determining which is the "true" church. What it does teach is that one is to use Scripture as the determining factor as to which church is preaching the truth and thus is true to the first church. It is especially important to compare Scripture with a church's teaching on such core issues as the full deity and humanity of Christ, the atonement for sin through His blood on Calvary, salvation from sin by grace through faith, and the infallibility of the Scriptures.

The “first church” and “one true church” is recorded in the New Testament. That is the church that all churches are to follow, emulate, and model themselves after

The CHURCH are the believers who surrender thier life the Triune God....The Father, The Son and the who are ONE.....not three.......

[lostnfound]

Yes and no. You never receive sanctification unless you have met the requirements. You will be on the outside looking in; or the one who holds the empty olive oil lamp.

Now, these words maybe meaningless but I am concern over the welfare for those who did have that opportunity and empty their lamps out. As I stated before in another thread, why should an Eagle who soars peck in the dirt with the Chickens?

This is what you are offering to someone who knows the Gospel of Christ. Some food for thought!

This is an interesting post Hemi..could you elaborate..without the metaphors? Thanks.