How easy is it ????

[lostnfound]

So what do you do? If you sin do you just ignore the fact and carry on regardless? I cannot understand any religion teaching that there is no further need of repentance.

i could not understand a reglion that says repentace is not important ethier. In fact remember our no lordship debate topic thread. I do not follow those guys..but they say repentance is not part of it..we both know God calls us to repent..but repentance over and over will not earn salvation..but that does not mean you should not repent. I repent but not to earn salvation. i repent because the holy spirit has convicted me that i am wrong and i need to be right with God.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Yes, that's why I repent too.

[lostnfound]

Yes, that's why I repent too.

i smile when I read your posts willow..:) I don't even know why..except that you seem so personable. Thank you for your transparency by the way.

[lostnfound]

I am not sure that you are fully grasping what we believe. No one can become perfect by obeying the law. We are fallen; human and sinful. We cannot return to the presence of God without the Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. We can become perfect .... but ONLY thru Jesus. We often refer to this as "perfect in Christ". Obedience is part of the conditions of repentance. Repentance is part of the gospel. And according to our understanding of the Bible, Repentance is very much part of the teachings of the Savior.

Our scriptures teach balance. Our doctrine teaches us to rely on the arm of the Lord. Being perfect is not a prerequisite for salvation, it is the end result of it.

One can become very tired, if they fail to realize the Atonement and the role of works and grace and how they all work together to bring the soul of man into harmony with the will of God. One who is truly converted, has been born again, and is living in obedience to laws and ordinances, isn't tired from trying to reach the unreachable. They are tired because they waste and wearout their lives in the service of God.

It sounds like you believe that because of the Lord's sacrifice, that believers are no longer subject to the law. This is something that is not what LDS people teach. We don't believe anyone, God included, is above the law. We believe that the Atonement brings us into agreement with the law. For example... "No unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God." Eternal Law. No one can change that. But thru Christ's blood we are made clean and can then enter. Christ doesn't take us above the law and let unclean things into heaven. He helps us obey the law, and then we can enter.

I was only responding to vanhin and his conclusion that we are to be perfect. I really do understand what you are saying.

[Misshalfway]

OH, good. Then I can rest! :) (I'm joking. hehehe!)

[WillowTheWhisp]

Thank you for your transparency by the way.

Is that good? :) I hope so!

[lostnfound]

Is that good? :) I hope so!

yes very good.:) it means you try to be real with people. You are yourself.

OH, good. Then I can rest! :) (I'm joking. hehehe!)

lol

just curious do I sound more like a girl these days?

[Hemidakota]

would love to have talked to him.but unfortunately we can't talk about it.((

He passed on across the veil. The brother would quote many details of other past temple rights that coincides with what the LDS temple works [minor exceptions] are doing today. Neat stuff...

[Misshalfway]

LOL! Totally! You always sounded like a girl! I don't know where people got that.

[Hemidakota]

Oh man, I leave the thread and people calling lostnfound a woman? LOL

[lostnfound]

Oh man, I leave the thread and people calling lostnfound a woman? LOL

lol

[Hemidakota]

Lostnfound, the subject Sanctification is not unique to a LDS member and those who clearly understand the process and keys to acquire the final step; having the Lord appear unto the individual is relativity simple in a sense or but requires conformance to GOD’s will as I already stated.

Before I add the topic, I do apologize for my abrasiveness to both of you. You will find I have no tolerance with certain theological areas, when treated less than sacred or a person begins to [], I will be in a defensive mode. Remember, for me, I haven’t nothing to loose since my testimony is sealed as his servant of among many. As it is written in my Patriarchal Blessing, when giving my testimony against the opposition of the church or to bear to the world, it will be added in the ‘Book of Life’ [see Book of Revelations]. I have seen people in the church and claimed Christians that will tread on the Godhead, the prophets, or those who striving to reach, the pinnacle level of the prophets in gaining a testimony.

LDS President, Harold B. Lee, was asked the same question at a Devotional years ago. What is fascinating from his added speech contents, as a prophet, he added simplistic key for those who are seeking this level:

“Obey the laws and ordinances in order to be sanctified. The Lord said, "Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will" (D&C 88:68).

You may ask me, how does one sanctify himself, and make himself holy so that he is prepared to walk in the presence of the Lord? In that same great revelation the Lord says this, "And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same" (D&C 88:34).

What law? The laws of the Lord as contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ, the keeping of which laws and ordinances are the ways by which we are purified and made holy. The keeping of every law that the Lord has given us is one step closer to receiving the right to enter one day into the presence of the Lord. He has given us in another revelation the formula by which we can prepare ourselves as the years pass. "Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am" (D&C 93:1). Simple, isn't it? But listen again. All you have to do is to forsake your sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments, and then you shall see His face and shall know that He is.

There it is. You read it again and again, if you want the key as to how you may prepare yourselves to be so sanctified that you can enter into the presence of the Lord.

Reference: Devotional, Long Beach, California, 29 April 1973.

Simple? Yes and no. I believe [HD here], all prophets already witnessed the Godhead and are sanctified before the Savior in this mortality. This process is no different from Adam unto today. However, there is something within that speech not talked about. I already spoke about this early, which primarily deals with the ordinances and the Holy Ghost to accomplish what is needed to receive sanctification.

[see Part 2]

[Vanhin]

vanhin, interesting point. I also agree with you about taking scripture verses out of context is really bad. Even christian churches do that. Looking at things in the whole of the context is important.

Matthew 5:48 says to be perfect, not become perfect. The verse is in the present tense. We are not commanded to get it right in the future but to be perfect, right now! Just like your boss telling you to “be on time” doesn’t mean to be on time a month from now, but immediately. Hebrews 10:14: “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified”. Notice the past tense. Jesus has already made those perfect who come to Him by faith, trusting in His finished work of redemption. now read Ephesians 2:8-9.

My sister, you don't understand the scriptures. But that's not entirely your fault. You are at a disadvantage because you don't have all the words of Christ that we have to give you a more full understanding of these things.

Hebrews 10:14 says that the Atonement of Christ has perfected them that are sanctified. The sanctified are those, who's faith is manifested in a life of obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. This is what Paul taught later in the same chapter:

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb. 10:24-26)

We must obey and be true to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel to be sanctified. I want to share with you a few passages from the Book of Mormon to consider. These are the words of the prophet Nephi concerning this topic.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Ne. 31:17-21)

We have a more full understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because of additional scripture, living prophets, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. We know that God has done everything for us without taking away our agency. No one will be saved in their sins, they must be sanctified by choosing to conform their will to that of the Father; which means being true and faithful to the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of their own free will, all the days of their lives.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

One member of the Godhead to make this happen is the Holy Ghost. Now the greatest blessing of the Holy Ghost in our lives is the spiritual refinement of our souls. We know baptism of water may cleanse us, but his baptism of fire, will purge us until no sign of the former blemishes [sins, natural man-woman, weaknesses and so on] exists. The standard works sometimes refer to the Lord's cleansing as a "refiner's fire." (Mal. 3:2; 3 Ne. 24:2; D&C 128:24.) To explain it simple terms, a refinery uses extreme heat to purify metal. By burning away the dross and impure particles, a piece of metal is strengthened. Each one of GOD's progeny needs to pass through a spiritual refiner's fire in order to enter his presence. This refiner's fire is defined as a purification or sanctification process.

Now that is clear, sanctification means, a person becomes pure and spotless through the process of time. Paul states, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor. 5:17.) I do know many other theological beliefs may use this verse and twist the meaning in a 360-degree compass. The scriptures teach us that the Holy Ghost assists in this transformation process. Bruce R. McConkie adds,

"Sanctification is a state of saintliness, a state attained only by conformity to the laws and ordinances of the gospel." We need to understand the purpose of sanctification before we can see how we can become sanctified.

Again, dictionary meaning of sanctification will reveal, "to consecrate" or "to make holy." It is a prerequisite to return to Heavenly Father's presence. The Lord taught that no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven. (See 1 Ne. 15:34; Eph. 5:5.) We all fall short but Jesus Christ who did not sin, have become unclean and unworthy before GOD (see Romans 3:23), no one on this planet qualifies for any heavenly glory. However, the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, upon conditions of repentance, is what prepares the way for our purification so we can be led back to our FATHER's presence [Celestial Glory].

LDS scholar name, Robert L. Millet, clarifies this by adding, "Jesus Christ is the means by which men and women are sanctified, made holy and clean, and his is the only name through which fallen creatures may be renewed and renovated and lifted spiritually to that plane which characterizes him who is the embodiment of holiness." After Christ has opened the heavenly gates of redemption for us, we must pass through in order to receive the potential blessings.

Getting back to our prime Godhead member, the Holy Ghost is the means by which sanctification is accomplished within us - individually. The process of purifying the soul comes after the cleansing of baptism, and it requires a baptism of fire through the Holy Ghost to be completed. As Elder McConkie stated, "It is the Holy Spirit . . . that erases carnality and brings us into a state of righteousness. We become clean when we actually receive the . . . companionship of the Holy Ghost. It is then that sin and dross and evil are burned out of our souls as though by fire. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is the baptism of fire." GOD controls the power and conditions for sanctification; the atonement of his Son provides the means by which a holy consecration can occur, and the purging of the Holy Ghost completes the sanctifying process within our souls.

[see Part 3]

[lostnfound]

My brother, you don't understand the scriptures. But that's not entirely your fault. You are at a disadvantage because you don't have all the words of Christ that we have to give you a more full understanding of these things.

Hebrews 10:14 says that the Atonement of Christ has perfected them that are sanctified. The sanctified are those, who's faith is manifested in a life of obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. This is what Paul taught later in the same chapter:

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Heb. 10:24-26)

We must obey and be true to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel to be sanctified. I want to share with you a few passages from the Book of Mormon to consider. These are the words of the prophet Nephi concerning this topic.

17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.

19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.

20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Ne. 31:17-21)

We have a more full understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, because of additional scripture, living prophets, and the gift of the Holy Ghost. We know that God has done everything for us without taking away our agency. No one will be saved in their sins, they must be sanctified by choosing to conform their will to that of the Father; which means being true and faithful to the principles and ordinances of the Gospel of their own free will, all the days of their lives.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

you ARE CORRECT. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES THE WAY THE LDS TEACHES.but i appreciate your insights anyhow even if I am thinking the same thing about you. :)

[Guest tomk]

For the serious seeker of these things, I recommend the following book:

Conversing with the Lord through the Veil

This book was written by someone who has seen the risen Lord recently. The book details what understanding is needed to obtain such an audience for oneself.

[lostnfound]

you ARE CORRECT. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES THE WAY THE LDS TEACHES.but i appreciate your insights anyhow even if I am thinking the same thing about you. :)

okay i read your bom closer.

I am not ignoring that Christ calls us to perfection in Him and in HIm alone. what i was specially arguing is that this one verse taken out of context does not show what I was trying to tell you..That you can't earn your salvation period. You will not be perfect enough. You can however be justified by faith and be considered perfect or righteous in your believe in God having put your full faith in HIm as Lord of your life.and then continuing to do his work on this life that will be rewarded in heaven as your verse explained but this would be called santification. There is a subtle difference here but it is actually really huge. :) And really this comes down to what some of my other threads have talked on..is by what authority do you uphold..I do not uphold the book of mormon as truth and you do and that is why you believe the way you do. oh my word I think about 99% of questions just occured to me..that is exactly it.

[Vanhin]

you ARE CORRECT. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES THE WAY THE LDS TEACHES.but i appreciate your insights anyhow even if I am thinking the same thing about you. :)

Right on sister. :) There's really no mystery here though. It's so simple, even a child can understand the doctrine.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matt. 22:37-40)

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Vanhin]

okay i read your bom closer.

I am not ignoring that Christ calls us to perfection in Him and in HIm alone. what i was specially arguing is that this one verse taken out of context does not show what I was trying to tell you..That you can't earn your salvation period. You will not be perfect enough. You can however be justified by faith and be considered perfect or righteous in your believe in God having put your full faith in HIm as Lord of your life.and then continuing to do his work on this life that will be rewarded in heaven as your verse explained but this would be called santification. There is a subtle difference here but it is actually really huge. :) And really this comes down to what some of my other threads have talked on..is by what authority do you uphold..I do not uphold the book of mormon as truth and you do and that is why you believe the way you do. oh my word I think about 99% of questions just occured to me..that is exactly it.

Thanks. Those words of Nephi pretty much explain our understanding of Salvation. We believe that it is not possible without Christ, and that we cannot ourselves become perfect. We need someone greater than us to lift us. But we must do our part to gain access to that Grace. Our part is to do what Christ has commanded us to do. How can we go wrong with that? As disciples of Jesus Christ, our aim is to emulate him. That is what he taught. There is no other way.

Sincerely,

Vanhin

[Hemidakota]

Lostnfound, sanctification process occurs in gradual steps. Long winded journey for some; while others may receive it earlier. How? It comes to those who yield their hearts to GOD, who are personally righteous, and who endure faithfully and valiantly in the gospel of Jesus Christ through trials and fires of the faith. (See Hel. 3:35.) At times, these people when they speak, speak in arrogant tone when in fact, they have one primary purpose, to help others to reach the same. It may take a comparison of one who is sanctified, to the one that is not, in order the differences. The heart of saving others is vital concern for them.

Not ramble here, Elder McConkie, highlights the importance of enduring to the end by emphasizing, "Nobody is sanctified in an instant, suddenly. But if we keep the commandments and press forward with steadfastness after baptism, then degree by degree and step by step we sanctify our souls until that glorious day when we're qualified to go where God and angels are." Though, at times I would agree with him, knowing this Apostle was sanctified, I disagree do to some I have known reached it much earlier and told their sealed by the Lord or His servants. Elder McConkie, quoted in saying, "Sanctification is the personal perfection process."

Lostnfound, when we are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, we become a new person. Old habits, personality, desires, and passions will change. Even watching television shows or listening music will change quickly when scenes or lyrics are not becoming of a person of caliber. It will also, change our perception viewpoint of ourselves [to better ourselves daily] and others around us in a different light. How? This greater change within, is accomplished because of the refining powers of the Holy Ghost. This is why the Saints call Him, a comforter. One who comforts us on our journey to this pinnacle of sanctification. We then become like the people during King Benjamin's time when they witness "a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually." (Mosiah 5:2.) There is a purging effects from sin, all the desires and temptations of sin are rooted out of our soul; we become more like Christ and holds his spiritual image.

Why did I mentioned those basics steps is a requirements for one to reach sanctification? Lostnfound, we are not members of Christ's only true church without the gift of the Holy Ghost. When Joseph Smith was asked what primary factor, which separates 'The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' from other religions, he stated, it was in "the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying-on of hands, . . . [and] that all other considerations were contained in the gift of the Holy Ghost." Jesus Christ commissioned the Nephites, "Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day." (3 Ne. 27:20.) Since the gift of the Holy Ghost is the distinctive factor, which separates the only church of Jesus Christ from all other churches [religions], experiencing the constant companionship [comforter] and His sanctifying power of this member of the Godhead should be our primary goal in life. I for one, will not go by a single day, when I have not felt Him. If I have not, then I apply my daily checkpoints to see why not!

Lostnfound, in summary, the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST is shared among God's children who confirms our membership in Christ's church, as His power and gifts transform us spiritually, He sanctifies our souls preparatory to receiving Celestial glory. Again, I said, Celestial Glory. Not the kingdoms below. Noting the reception of the Holy Ghost, is like a key to open the front vault door of the Treasury, that can open the door to further gifts. I just said something that will helpful for others here. It will OPEN THE DOOR for FURTHER GIFTS. These blessings of the Spirit are designed to help us achieve our heavenly goals and progress from receiving the subtle [whispers] promptings of the Holy Spirit to experiencing more of His constant companionship. The Holy Ghost power will seal the ordinances of GOD when and what we have received in this mortality. You know, we may not have every gift currently, but by sharing those we are given, we can experience joy here and thus obtain eternal life.

Finally, not only is the Holy Ghost a witness to us of God the Father and Jesus Christ, but, through the Holy Spirit of Promise, which is imparted to us by laying on the hands of an appropriate priesthood bearer, the Holy Ghost can also testify to our worthiness to be in Their presence. The Savior revealed the value of this Celestial goal when He spoke through the Prophet Joseph Smith to members of the church, "If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God." (D&C 14:7.)

[Hemidakota]

For the serious seeker of these things, I recommend the following book:

Conversing with the Lord through the Veil

This book was written by someone who has seen the risen Lord recently. The book details what understanding is needed to obtain such an audience for oneself.

No man can go into that depth and not know. I believe Snuffen has indeed a witness of Him.

[Misshalfway]

Right on brother. :) There's really no mystery here though. It's so simple, even a child can understand the doctrine.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (Matt. 22:37-40)

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

Sincerely,

Vanhin

Dude, Lost is a sister, not a brother.

[lostnfound]

I am cracking up!!!!! I AM A GIRL! GOLLY DARN IT! LONG HAIR..DRESSES, PINK BOWES,, CRIES AT GIRLY MOVIES...GIRL!

[Misshalfway]

Halarious!!!

[lostnfound]

:roflmbo: