Protecting your family

[LuckOfTheIrish]

Just joined here and I thought of a topic to discuss. I am interested in other people's views on this issue. I live in a good neighborhood in a safe LDS town. I have not been LDS all my life. I ran with a rough crowd at one time and have encountered a lot of degenerate people who make bad choices. I was in the military and drilled with an infantry unit and I currently work in law enforcement. I have seen some extremely gruesome, horrible, evil things done by evil people in my job that I will never talk about to anybody but my co-workers who were there. I am a HUGE supporter of the right to bear arms (in a responsible manner) and the right to defend yourself with deadly force if in defense of yourself or someone else. I keep two loaded firearms in the bedroom (safely) stored in different locations and I qualify with them frequently both at work and personally. I also carry concealed. I taught my wife to shoot both guns in a stationary and tactical environment. One reason I do this is because I can't spend nights with my wife and she is alone. Also, if my house is ever broken into or I am in a situation in town where I'm robbed, I want to protect my wife and myself. A criminal will almost always have a deadly weapon in order to gain an advantage, and sadly the only way to gain it back is to be proficient and carry one of your own. I know the chances of ever needing to use deadly force to protect myself or my family is very slim, especially in a relatively safe, small town but I want the option there if I ever need it. This mindset has carried over from before I was LDS and I don't think it will ever change. There is so much evil perpetuated in the world. My mom thinks I'm insane, my dad grunted in approval, and my poor wife has had to get used to idea of a loaded firearm always being around. As a person, and more specifically as a priesthood holder I'm interested in how other people feel on the issue.. Is it overboard, or is it a good measure of protection in this day and age to be prepared to take someone's life in defense of you or your family? I would never want to of course, but I would not hesitate to do so to protect my family. I have a military LDS "Principles of the Gospel" that addresses the issue but it is vague. Are there any scripture references to this? Thanks!

[WillowTheWhisp]

We are not allowed to have weapons here in the UK and in fact even defending yourself in your own home can land you in prison. Despite that I think if anyone attacked my children I would fight them with whatever I could lay my hands on.

[NeuroTypical]

Welcome, LOTI!

I am very much in tune with everything you've said. I have a CCP. I've never witnessed anything like you describe, but I am aware of such things through stories from folks like you, so indeed I do take precautions to protect my family. My wife has been face to face with much more evil than I have, and she fully supports my decision, and may join me at some time in the ranks of concealed carriers.

The church in general (at from what I've experienced here in America) has a wide range of opinions on the subject. Current church position on the matter is, follow the laws wherever you live. Our last prophet is on record as not wanting us to carry to church, and the church has actually made it illegal to do so in Utah. Our current prophet hasn't said anything on the issue so far as I know.

We are commanded to love our our enemies. We are also commanded to protect our families, even unto bloodshed. I'm of the opinion that these two commandments are not in conflict.

Welcome!

LM

[MsMagnolia]

In the U.S. we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I think it is marvelous that you have taught your wife proper care and use of firearms. One question though... any reason why you keep loaded weapons as opposed to unloaded with clips nearby?

[crytsprospect]

I am on board with you and I have not been in law enforcement. I have seen the horrible things done by others and I won't even share all with my hubby because its enough for me to have to endure. We have firearms. We have always taught our children gun safety and love going target shooting. We also hunt. We live in the country and would not be without protection in case of a need. State Police are at least an hour away. With budget cuts sometimes longer. I believe I am not going against any church teachings as I am following the laws.

[MorningStar]

I think it's just a personal decision. I support others' rights to have firearms, but I don't want them in my home at this point. I grew up in a house with guns, my brother carries a concealed weapon, he's in the National Guard, and he's a cop now, and I trust my dad and my brother with their guns, but I don't want it around my boys. One of my mom's best friends was accidentally shot by her husband when I was in high school, my friend's dad shot himself in the head and his son almost got blamed for it (and the mom called our house hysterical because her daughter ran away and was afraid she would do something to hurt herself. After searching on foot, we returned to her house where she came back and there was a horrible mess everywhere. Definitely turned me off to guns.), and a lady in my ward became a widow when her husband accidentally shot himself while cleaning his gun. With the first lady, she had asked her husband to get rid of the guns when their 2-year-old started playing with one. He took it to the pawn shop the next morning, it was closed, and when he came home, a rifle went off just as she was coming down the hallway. The kids woke up to it and their dad bawling as he frantically did CPR on her. It was a weird, freak accident. I've shot guns too and I'm good at it, but it freaks me out knowing I'm holding something that could kill a person. My husband wants to get a gun and join a gun club, but I told him I don't want to get one until we have a house and the kids are older. Our kids have a way of getting to anything no matter where we put it.

[Misshalfway]

I agree that it is a personal decision. I imagine that depending on circumstance I could go either way. If I had been attacked or believe that the likelihood of such were high, then you bet. I grew up with guns but they were always used for hunting. My father taught me to shoot along with all my brothers. It is valuable knowledge. But I wouldn't be comfortable with a gun in my current situation. My sons and their friends are fascinated by firearms. I am just sure something bad would happen. And so, I keep my house free of them. But then again, I live in a small town where the crime rate is incredibly low.

I can't really say if you are making the right decision or not. I can see how some would see your preparations as hyper-vigilence and perhaps unnecessary especially if you live in a low crime area. But if you are away, and your wife is skilled, it might be very wise.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Welcome, LOTI!

I am very much in tune with everything you've said. I have a CCP. I've never witnessed anything like you describe, but I am aware of such things through stories from folks like you, so indeed I do take precautions to protect my family. My wife has been face to face with much more evil than I have, and she fully supports my decision, and may join me at some time in the ranks of concealed carriers.

The church in general (at from what I've experienced here in America) has a wide range of opinions on the subject. Current church position on the matter is, follow the laws wherever you live. Our last prophet is on record as not wanting us to carry to church, and the church has actually made it illegal to do so in Utah. Our current prophet hasn't said anything on the issue so far as I know.

We are commanded to love our our enemies. We are also commanded to protect our families, even unto bloodshed. I'm of the opinion that these two commandments are not in conflict.

Welcome!

LM

So much for the divinely inspired Constitution...I guess it's inspired, except when attending Church in Utah...

UGGGGGGGGH!!! How are EVER going to EVER save the Constitution?!??

[JohnBirchSociety]

In the U.S. we have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms. I think it is marvelous that you have taught your wife proper care and use of firearms. One question though... any reason why you keep loaded weapons as opposed to unloaded with clips nearby?

Not to be picky...well actually, I am being picky...

We don't have "Constitutional Rights", we have GOD-given rights, of which a few are listed in the Bill of Rights as things the Federal Congress is not to infringe.

We don't derive rights from our Constitution...

[Guest tomk]

It is a personal decision.

I try to love others. I can imagine very few situations where I would want to take a human life, if ANY other option was available.

Still, I could not sit idly by while someone hurt my family. I would protect them. In fact I am very protective of my wife and children. I think God gave me these feelings and instincts for a reason.

Personally, I don't keep a gun in the house. Not sure why. We just -- don't. I think part of why not is that there are very few situations, realistically, where I would both be able to keep the gun safe from curious little minds AND have quick and easy access to it. Plus I would have to get the drop on whomever was attacking us. It's not like he's gonna stand there while I go get my gun and load it. :)

[Guest GhostRider]

As being former military I was taught that an unloaded weapon is about worthless in a combat situation. That and was told that by my father. My brother and I grew up in the country and Dad had his rifles and pistols put up. also we had very specific instructions on what to do with them. If we touched them without his permission the concequences were sever..as my brothers bottom found out one day.

Now saying that most ppl would say that a burgler breaking into your haouse is not the same. However. To me someone trying to hurt the ones that I love would be just that. Anything that I could use to put the intruder at bay till the authorities arrive would just buy my family longer to get out of the danger zone.

While living in Texas I had the opprotunity to live in not such a great area. It got so bad at the appartment complex that not only did I but My wife ( my ex now) both slept with loaded weapons and we also kept another in the kitchen. Tells you how safe we felt in that apartment huh? Thank HF that we never had to use them in anger. But knowing that we both know how to shoot and that there was no little ones in the house helped. With a young one in the mix would have been different.

[Fiannan]

The phrase that it is better to have a gun and not need it rather than need a gun and not have it is very true.

Also, from a Church standpoint I believe you have every right to defend yourself. And believe me, if I caught anyone trying to rape or kill anyone in my family I'd want to re-enact the scene in "Sin City" on them where the Bruce Willis character does a bit of reconstructive surgery on the villian and ties him to a tree afterwards -- if you saw the movie you get my point.

[Hemidakota]

Hmm...

Remember the power of the Priesthood, used in righteousness, can do a far greater destruction than the armies of the world or Atomic Bomb.

[Hemidakota]

As being former military I was taught that an unloaded weapon is about worthless in a combat situation. That and was told that by my father. My brother and I grew up in the country and Dad had his rifles and pistols put up. also we had very specific instructions on what to do with them. If we touched them without his permission the concequences were sever..as my brothers bottom found out one day.

Now saying that most ppl would say that a burgler breaking into your haouse is not the same. However. To me someone trying to hurt the ones that I love would be just that. Anything that I could use to put the intruder at bay till the authorities arrive would just buy my family longer to get out of the danger zone.

While living in Texas I had the opprotunity to live in not such a great area. It got so bad at the appartment complex that not only did I but My wife ( my ex now) both slept with loaded weapons and we also kept another in the kitchen. Tells you how safe we felt in that apartment huh? Thank HF that we never had to use them in anger. But knowing that we both know how to shoot and that there was no little ones in the house helped. With a young one in the mix would have been different.

What service did you serve?

[NeuroTypical]

Remember the power of the Priesthood, used in righteousness, can do a far greater destruction than the armies of the world or Atomic Bomb.

I know a few people who conceal-carry, and none of them are interested in working destruction on anyone or anything. They and I are only interested in protecting my loved ones. Kind of like this:

Alma 48:14 Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives.

23 Now, they were sorry to take up arms against the Lamanites, because they did not delight in the shedding of blood; yea, and this was not all—they were sorry to be the means of sending so many of their brethren out of this world into an eternal world, unprepared to meet their God.

I'm not quoting these verses as a justification for arming yourself, just as an example of my mindset. The absolute second to last thing I ever want to do on this earth is have to send some poor slob to heaven early. The ultimate last thing I want to do is stand there powerless while some poor slob sends my wife or kids to heaven early.

LM

[Hemidakota]

In the last days, you will need to use this method to overcome the enemies of the world. Guns are going to help you. It will be one of many trials of the Saints.

[Guest GhostRider]

Was in the army and Nat Gaurd. My Father has a concealed carry. For him it is insurance. the problem is that he must go to some bad parts of town. I was not used to seeing my dad do such a thing when I lived with him. Now as he has gotten older (and ever more wiser) I can understand why he does to protect the ones he loves. just my humble opinion

[mightynancy]

I think a loaded gun would be more of a clear and present danger to my family than the infinitessimal chance of someone coming in to kill us.

This isn't one of those either/or issues, though this discussion is framed that way. Either you pack heat, or you're not protecting your family...it doesn't work that way. There's a tree in my kids' schoolyard with a plaque under it bearing the name of a former student. He was killed by his father's own gun. I can warn my kids until I'm blue, but that doesn't control their every impulse, the impulse of their friends, nor an intruder when I'm not home.

[jadams_4040]

Just joined here and I thought of a topic to discuss. I am interested in other people's views on this issue. I live in a good neighborhood in a safe LDS town. I have not been LDS all my life. I ran with a rough crowd at one time and have encountered a lot of degenerate people who make bad choices. I was in the military and drilled with an infantry unit and I currently work in law enforcement. I have seen some extremely gruesome, horrible, evil things done by evil people in my job that I will never talk about to anybody but my co-workers who were there. I am a HUGE supporter of the right to bear arms (in a responsible manner) and the right to defend yourself with deadly force if in defense of yourself or someone else. I keep two loaded firearms in the bedroom (safely) stored in different locations and I qualify with them frequently both at work and personally. I also carry concealed. I taught my wife to shoot both guns in a stationary and tactical environment. One reason I do this is because I can't spend nights with my wife and she is alone. Also, if my house is ever broken into or I am in a situation in town where I'm robbed, I want to protect my wife and myself. A criminal will almost always have a deadly weapon in order to gain an advantage, and sadly the only way to gain it back is to be proficient and carry one of your own. I know the chances of ever needing to use deadly force to protect myself or my family is very slim, especially in a relatively safe, small town but I want the option there if I ever need it. This mindset has carried over from before I was LDS and I don't think it will ever change. There is so much evil perpetuated in the world. My mom thinks I'm insane, my dad grunted in approval, and my poor wife has had to get used to idea of a loaded firearm always being around. As a person, and more specifically as a priesthood holder I'm interested in how other people feel on the issue.. Is it overboard, or is it a good measure of protection in this day and age to be prepared to take someone's life in defense of you or your family? I would never want to of course, but I would not hesitate to do so to protect my family. I have a military LDS "Principles of the Gospel" that addresses the issue but it is vague. Are there any scripture references to this? Thanks!

I am lds too {worthy holder and temple carrying recomend} and i do the excat same thing as you do with the firearms, but i also know full well the possibility of being awakened in the middle of the night {half asleep} and accidently shooting someone that didnt need to be shot, How horrible would that be?:)

[NeuroTypical]

This isn't one of those either/or issues, though this discussion is framed that way. Either you pack heat, or you're not protecting your family...it doesn't work that way.

I agree completely. If handguns are going to be useful, they require a certain mindset, a level of training and discipline and maturity and dedication - not everybody has or wants all of these things. Far too many people keep a loaded gun somewhere in the house they've never learned to use, and don't want to - like it was some sort of magic talisman that wards off evil. Well, it ain't - and there are way too many stories of kids shooting themselves with their negligent parent's handguns for anyone's tastes.

Further, handguns are not by any means the only, or even the best way to protect your family. Got good lighting at night? Got a good fence? Got a dog? These are all great ways to get the random evildoer to pass by your house and move on to the next one.

There's a tree in my kids' schoolyard with a plaque under it bearing the name of a former student. He was killed by his father's own gun. I can warn my kids until I'm blue, but that doesn't control their every impulse, the impulse of their friends

Agreed. I saw some Barbra Walters-type special - they ran a group of 3rd graders through standard police-given "Stop - Don't Touch - Tell" training. Then they turned them loose in groups of three in a room with three unloaded pistols and some hidden cameras. With only one exception, every single kid was picking them up, playing with them, pointing them at each other. The parts of our brains that give us the ability to maturely handle ourselves in such situations don't finish maturing until the early 20's. That's why we're supposed to have mature mommies and daddies that know what's best for us!

We keep our stuff in a gun safe - and only I know the combination.

LM

[mightynancy]

I saw some Barbra Walters-type special - they ran a group of 3rd graders through standard police-given "Stop - Don't Touch - Tell" training. Then they turned them loose in groups of three in a room with three unloaded pistols and some hidden cameras. With only one exception, every single kid was picking them up, playing with them, pointing them at each other. The parts of our brains that give us the ability to maturely handle ourselves in such situations don't finish maturing until the early 20's. That's why we're supposed to have mature mommies and daddies that know what's best for us!

I saw that, too. I know that guns don't go off by themselves; I have a great deal of training in firearms. I'm not afraid of weapons.

I also know that even the most well-trained child is still a child. I also know that even the most well-trained teen can get into a bad frame of mind (yes, I'm talking about mental illness, or even simple rage).

Weighing the odds, I'll take the lower risk.

[LuckOfTheIrish]

Alma 48:14 Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives.

EXACTLY what I was looking for scripturally! Thanks!

As for what ex19k said(even though he's a former tanker:P), he is exactly right. An empty weapon is useless in a combat situation. I keep it loaded but I do not keep a round in the chamber so it can't accidentally fire from a nudge on the trigger. A simple slide of the rack will load it. Loading a clip takes two seconds that I might not have in a situation. I also keep 2 pairs of handcuffs in the drawer. I carry the same gun I use at work and I know the components inside and out like the back of my hand. I train with it in prone and tactical environments and teach my wife the same. When kids come along, I will think of something. We rent so good lighting and a dog are out of the question, although I want a big German shepherd! I'm not a huge, imposing person physically and neither my wife nor I are experts in self defense. A gun is the only option, and we know how to use them well. Crime is drastically on the rise here, even though I live in a very rural mostly LDS town. Every week I read of someone getting assaulted, robbed, and sometimes worse. It's a dangerous tool definitely, and deadly if used with negligence, but it is a necessary tool in today's world. I rest assured when I'm here and gone during the nights I work that if anyone ever breaks in, they won't be leaving.

[Guest GhostRider]

Hey...whats wrong with being a tanker!? JK Had another MOS before that...but I think each person has a different way to deal with threats not only in thier homes but elsewhere in life. The way things are in the world no matter if you live in a nice community or in the country there are always people out there that just dont care. Case in point. At a krogers in ga a man walked up to the phamacy. Pulled out a .357 Magnum revolver and demanded Oxicotin (sp?). The store manager just walked up behind him and calmly took his weapon. The man said he just prayed the whole time but did not want to have on of his empoyees hurt due to this mans actions. Lets face it. Its a scary world out there that we live in.

One thing I do remember is is this. When they had the CCP in texas. Crime dropped drastically!

Again I think this is something that is up to the individual