Tarot cards

[Guest HEthePrimate]

I'm just curious--what do y'all think of tarot cards? Are they evil? Are they neutral, and it depends on how you use them?

I've always assumed that most LDS would think they're evil, but then it occurred to me that maybe that's just an assumption. I've been reading about tarot recently because my curiosity was piqued. It seems that it originated simply as a card game, with the major trumps being used essentially for educational purposes, showing in pictures different principles related to living an enlightened life. It's based on Neoplatonic & Stoic philosophy, but Biblical or Christian themes have crept into many decks, too, which is not really surprising considering that most of the people who have historically used the tarot were Christians.

Even though it originated as a card game, it didn't take long for people to start using it for divination and fortune telling, and today that's what it is pretty much exclusively usually used for in English-speaking countries. However, even today it's still used primarily as a card game rather than for divination on the European continent. To complicate things even further, many people use the tarot neither for games nor for fortune telling, but rather for what could be called "psychological purposes." That is, many people attempt to gain wisdom or insight from the cards by examining the symbols and archetypes found in the tarot, pondering upon them, and thereby explore their own thoughts, feelings, and subconscious and see what they can learn about themselves from the tarot. When they do readings for other people, they essentially guide them in doing the same thing by helping to explain the symbolism, etc.

Anyway, I've always been somewhat of a skeptic when it comes to such things. However, I can understand using the tarot for "psychological purposes" as described above, as I have always found symbols and images very helpful in understanding things. In fact, that's the same technique the Catholic Church has long used in the construction of its churches--stained glass windows and other art used to teach people about biblical figures or stories, or saints, and as a mnemonic device.

Fascinating stuff. But don't worry, I'm not becoming a devil worshipper!! (Not on your life!)

HE the Primate

[lostnfound]

- "A man or woman who calls upon spirits or fortune-tellers or magicians shall be put to death by stoning; their blood is upon them... anyone who turns to mediums and fortune-tellers or magicians prostitutes himself by following them, I will set my face against him, and will cut him off from the people"... (Leviticus:20: 6,27)...

BEAWARE OF DIVING INTO THIS THING. THE BIBLE WARNS US TO STAY AWAY FROM SUCH THINGS..ALSO IN PALSMS IT READS WE ARE TO GET OUR WISDOM FROM GOD NOT MAN..

[Guest tomk]

Short answer: We are cautioned, even commanded, to stay away from Tarot cards, witchcraft of any sort, divination, "wee gee" boards (I know the actual spelling is quite different, just didn't bother to look it up), you name it.

I think it is natural and quite normal to be curious about these things. I know I have been, at times. I believe they even work, but therein lies the danger. :)

We are spiritual beings. As Saints, we believe that spirits can talk to us. Otherwise, how would the devil and his minions tempt us? How would the Holy Ghost (who is a Spirit) be able to entice us to do good and provide unto us the "words of Christ"?

Our "ouija board" is the Holy Ghost. Our "Tarot cards" are the scriptures. :)

That is my non-official, "gut reaction" response to your query. :)

For an official response you might look here:

LDS.org - Aaronic Priesthood Chapter Detail - Satan and His Temptations

An excerpt from that link:

"The young men [ANYONE, MALE OR FEMALE, OLD OR YOUNG] should understand the reality of Satan, but you should not talk too much about him or relate personal experiences with the power of evil. Avoid discussing the occult. If the young men bring up such subjects as [TAROT CARDS I WOULD ADD] Ouija boards, séances, spiritualism, or Satan worship, you should tell them that such things are tools of Satan and that we have been counseled to avoid them completely. Then direct the discussion back to the lesson."

Also this link, which contains the excerpt following:

LDS.org - New Era Article - The Precarious Age of Aquarius

“We were playing with a Ouija board in school one day,” said JoAnn, a Laurel in Southern California. “We kept asking questions and the board kept answering correctly. I became increasingly frightened and eventually so scared that I fled from the room. I couldn’t sleep for days. I kept waking up with nightmares. It was a horrible experience. We are told to seek for the positive in life,” she continued, “but the negative is just as powerful. By forcing all your attention and your thoughts on an object, using ritual to make the image emotional, you can easily surrender your consciousness to evil powers.”

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Is casting lots also bad, do you think? How about bibliomancy? I've heard of LDS people who, when they had a question, would open the Scriptures to a random page, and sometimes bring their finger down on a random verse, and read what they find there expecting that God would direct them to the answer they were seeking. That's an example of bibliomancy, a form of divination. I guess what I'm asking now is do you think the Holy Ghost could use such methods as an aid for communicating with us? Hey, you guys have got me thinking again! (That could be dangerous!) How about art? Can the Holy Ghost use statues, paintings, or films to communicate with us? And if so, why not tarot cards? (See what I mean about it being dangerous to get me thinking?!?)

Thanks for your responses.

DH

[Guest tomk]

Is casting lots also bad, do you think? How about bibliomancy? I've heard of LDS people who, when they had a question, would open the Scriptures to a random page, and sometimes bring their finger down on a random verse, and read what they find there expecting that God would direct them to the answer they were seeking. That's an example of bibliomancy, a form of divination. I guess what I'm asking now is do you think the Holy Ghost could use such methods as an aid for communicating with us? Hey, you guys have got me thinking again! (That could be dangerous!) How about art? Can the Holy Ghost use statues, paintings, or films to communicate with us? And if so, why not tarot cards? (See what I mean about it being dangerous to get me thinking?!?)

Thanks for your responses.

DH

It's not that the Holy Ghost cannot use any and all of the methods you suggest. He very well could if that was the best way for us to receive the needed instruction and guidance.

I would say, "Pay attention to the direction of revelation."

Meaning, we don't suggest to God the means by which we want Him to reveal His will to us. Instead, we identify the means He has already put in place for revelation to come to us. Prayer and Fasting. Scripture study. It comes from God to man. It comes in the manner He inspires and chooses. He appeard to Moses in the "burning bush" -- but God chose that method, not Moses.

Does this make sense?

[WillowTheWhisp]

Tarot cards cannot in themselves be evil. They are pieces of card with images on. Any deck of cards can be used for fortune telling and any deck of cards, tarot included, can also be used for playing games. Some cards are very interestingly decorated. I have a deck of cards with images of Biblical characters and saints on them.

Some people even regard card games as evil because some card games are played for money and gambling but I don't feel that way personally. As a family we play board games and card games for fun.

I suppose it all depends really on what is your use of or motivation behind or guidance for etc etc. I mean Joseph Smith used seer stones but was guided to do so by the HolyGhost. Someone else uses a crystal ball but off their own bat and for financial gain which isn't the same thing at all.

[Guest HEthePrimate]

I would say, "Pay attention to the direction of revelation."

What if the Holy Ghost were to direct a person to use tarot cards? (Sorry, but I'm feeling a bit mischievous today! )

Meaning, we don't suggest to God the means by which we want Him to reveal His will to us. Instead, we identify the means He has already put in place for revelation to come to us. Prayer and Fasting. Scripture study. It comes from God to man. It comes in the manner He inspires and chooses. He appeard to Moses in the "burning bush" -- but God chose that method, not Moses.

Of course we don't dictate to God how to reveal Himself or His will to us. But does He use various methods like that to do so? It seems pretty clear to me the Church thinks we can be inspired by music and by the visual arts, not to mention literature, in addition to pondering the scriptures and meditating, as well as simple revelations that we sense in our heart and mind.

Something that today is more unusual in the Church, but was common in biblical times, was the casting of lots. Jesus' disciples even cast lots to pick a new apostle to fill Judas' old slot! Apparently casting lots is ok--when I looked it up in the Bible Dictionary, it referred to Proverbs 16:33: "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the Lord." In other words, it may appear to be chance, but the Lord controls how the dice roll, so to speak, at least on the occasions when He chooses to express His will through the casting of lots.

So, back to the tarot cards, might the Lord choose on occasion to give us revelations by controlling how the cards are shuffled? I suspect that you were right to say "Pay attention to the direction of revelation" in this, as in all matters.

DH

[Guest HEthePrimate]

WillowTheWhisp, I quite agree!

DH

[WillowTheWhisp]

How about dreams? God used dreams a lot in the scriptures to tell people where they were going wrong.

[NeuroTypical]

On the MADB board, there's a mormon named Tzuski who (last year) became a practitioner of Chaos Magic, and (this year) got baptized a Catholic without renouncing his faith in mormonism.

If there's anyone else like him on the face of the planet, I bet the total number is small. Like 'count them all on one hand' small. Most of us usually mature to a point where we stay away from occultic stuff, or at the most regard it as an interesting source of entertainment.

LM

[WillowTheWhisp]

Why on earth would he want to be baptised a Catholic (or anything else) if he still believed in 'mormonism'?

[Iggy]

What if the Holy Ghost were to direct a person to use tarot cards? (Sorry, but I'm feeling a bit mischievous today! ) DH

The Holy Ghost can't and won't do that. Only Satan will and does. If you live rightously, then you will be "in tune" to the Holy Ghost and will know of His fruits.

The only use for Tarot cards is for fortune telling, aka devil worship. Same for the "wee gee" board (thanks for that alternate spelling TomK:lol:.)


This is, of course, in my Not So Humble Opinion.

[Oudler]

I am an American Tarot player. I play Tarot, Tarock and Tarocchi card games with those cards. I do not practice divination nor do I seek to change anybody's beliefs regarding divination. While it is true that the Bible condemns the services of psychics, mediums, and fortune tellers, there is no mention at all of Tarot cards. The cards first appeared in northern Italy during the 15th century for playing a trick taking card game and the use of these cards for divination would not begin until the 18th century, long after the creation of this deck. I'm quite pleased to see that HEthePrimate did some research on the history of Tarot cards. It is correct that Tarot cards were intended for nothing more than a card game, one that is still played today especially in places such as France and Italy.

Most Americans only associate Tarot with fortune telling and divination because most of us have not been told the entire truth about these cards. Most of us are presented with a very skewed and one sided vision of Tarot cards as a tool for divination. An aspect of culture is being stereotyped and distorted by those making money pushing the divination uses of the cards and the mainstream media in this country often accept it at face value. I believe that needs to change because this distortion of culture is having some adverse side effects. I have found, for example, that many authors on the subject of Tarot card games are having their works improperly classified as "occult" or "paranormal" by those who have been given no other context in which to view Tarot cards and the French cannot use the name of one of their national card games on a website without attracting Google ads for psychics or astrology. The common perception of Tarot cards in our country badly needs revision.

Thank you, HEthePrimate , for introducing this topic.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Thank you for that post Oudler.

It may perhaps help people to understand that this tunnel vision regarding tarot cards is a misconception if they consider that I have friends who do not have a TV because there are porn channels on TV and yet the Church also has adverts on TV, or the friends I have who won't have a computer because children get led away by paedophiles using computers and yet the Church has more than one website and here we are discussing church topics on this forum.

[Teancum18]

Tarot Cards are always done by someone. So it would stand to reason that if you examine the person dealing those cards, your conclusions about them will be the same as the cards themselves. In examining such people, all you have to ask is, "Where do they get their authority?"

If not from God, then why would it even matter what they have to say?

[Listener]

Behind the question of tarot lies something more important. What is it that you are seeking? If you are seeking God, then he has revealed himself to us through Jesus. If you are seeking to know something about yourself or your future, why not look within rather than somewhere else. If your are seeking the knowledge of the future, look at your past decisions and actions. Otherwise, it may just be that you want to know things that others have no access to...and I would wonder why.

[tiancum]

hethe, have you already experimented with Tarot?

[HiJolly]

Why on earth would he want to be baptised a Catholic (or anything else) if he still believed in 'mormonism'?

Tsuzuki is a 'paradigm pirate', and is a university student working on his psychology batchelor's degree. And is a wonderful young man, if I may say so (no, I'm not Tsuzuki!) LoL. Had to add that. We originally met on the mormonapologetics.org web site.

I think he enjoys danger, personally. Not that Catholicsm is dangerous... To answer your question, well, really it's that he is a Paradigm Pirate. He sees beyond the surface differences in religion, and goes to the source, the heart of it all. He believes that involving himself sincerely in other religions is like a Mormon reading not only the Book of Mormon, but the Bible too.

Ts, if you read this I trust you'll agree with my characterization of you.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

I'm just curious--what do y'all think of tarot cards? Are they evil? Are they neutral, and it depends on how you use them?

Fascinating stuff. But don't worry, I'm not becoming a devil worshipper!! (Not on your life!)

HE the Primate

Heh. I was raised thinking face cards were evil, and I never knew why. Then I found out that they were an adaptation of the Tarot card deck (minor arcana), and I understood.

I think that people should typically not mess with them. If one were studying the Endowment through history, though, I would be careful not to skip studying them when dealing with the dark ages.

Or perhaps if one was already a Christian or Hermetic Cabalist, then it would make sense. For an LDS person, well, let the spirit be your guide.

HiJolly

[WillowTheWhisp]

All playing cards are an adaptation of the tarot card deck.Not all tarot cards have pictures.

[WillowTheWhisp]

He sees beyond the surface differences in religion, and goes to the source, the heart of it all. He believes that involving himself sincerely in other religions is like a Mormon reading not only the Book of Mormon, but the Bible too.

Hmmm you mean something along the lines of all sources of truth can be collated into one great truth? Now where have I heard something similar to that?

[Guest HEthePrimate]

- "A man or woman who calls upon spirits or fortune-tellers or magicians shall be put to death by stoning; their blood is upon them... anyone who turns to mediums and fortune-tellers or magicians prostitutes himself by following them, I will set my face against him, and will cut him off from the people"... (Leviticus:20: 6,27)...

BEAWARE OF DIVING INTO THIS THING. THE BIBLE WARNS US TO STAY AWAY FROM SUCH THINGS..ALSO IN PALSMS IT READS WE ARE TO GET OUR WISDOM FROM GOD NOT MAN..

If using tarot cards is un-Christian, then it seems to me that killing a person for using tarot cards would be even more un-Christian!

[Guest HEthePrimate]

The Holy Ghost can't and won't do that. Only Satan will and does.

Sez who?

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Tarot Cards are always done by someone. So it would stand to reason that if you examine the person dealing those cards, your conclusions about them will be the same as the cards themselves. In examining such people, all you have to ask is, "Where do they get their authority?"

If not from God, then why would it even matter what they have to say?

So are you saying that if someone does not hold the LDS priesthood, nothing they say on any given subject is worth listening to??

Wow.

[Guest HEthePrimate]

Heh. I was raised thinking face cards were evil, and I never knew why. Then I found out that they were an adaptation of the Tarot card deck (minor arcana), and I understood.

HiJolly

Actually, according to my sources, the minor arcana came first, so don't feel bad if you like to play games with face cards! The major arcana were added later as trumps, and that's all they were, trumps for use in a game related to our modern Bridge.